Fifth Wheel Trailer Or ????

P

Pat Anderson

New member
Jim's post of the photos of his trailer in Yellowstone got me thinking about RV'ing. (This is the whole tie-in to C-Dorys or boating in this post I'm afraid). We used to have a 23' Automate trailer quite a while ago, enjoyed the heck out of it. Part of our current thinking on retirement is that there might be a fifth wheel trailer involved that we tow with the Titan...have to get away from here in the dreary season (no cracks about that being from September 30th to about July 5th). Some part of the year in Arizona, visit the grandchildren (if there are ever any) in Denver, who knows where else? Upsides are spaciousness and easy towability. Main downside is can't tow a boat. But we figure the time we are not in the fifth wheel we will be between Birch Bay and Daydream anyway, or towing Daydream around to cruise anywhere and everywhere. Tell me what fifth wheel trailer people think is just the cat's meow, or why I really don't want a fifth wheel at all...goal is to tow it somewhere and stay put a couple of months wherever we end up...what do I need to know about this plan?
 
In 30 plus years of RV'ing I've owned every type of Camper from pop-ups to 40 foot fifth wheels. In additon to this I've owned class A and class C motorhomes. The trend in recent years with the availability of slide outs has been wider and not as long in fifth wheels. It's been six years since I've been in the market so as far as brands I'm not really familiar with whats currently popular. I wouldn't be to quick to count out not pulling your C-Dory. I have a friend with a 30 foot fifth wheel and a 10 foot enclosed motorcyle trailer with two motorcycles in it. He's pulled it all over the country with a hitch on the back of the fifth wheel. I think this is legal in most states with a max length of 55' or 60'. Of course you need a pretty stout DIESEL tow vehicle for this. Of all the rigs I had I definately prefer 5th wheels and the slide out models are great. For short stays the class C motorhomes are pretty nice and afford you the ability to pull a vehicle or boat behind it. Some of the Brands I had and were happy with were Holiday Rambler, Jayco, Pace Arrow. I had a class C Winnabago and it was junk. In trailers some of the Fleetwood models are pretty good. Fleetwood is a huge company and make many different models and name brands of trailers from entry level to loaded. They have pretty good warranty service. I would think with the gas situation you could get a pretty good deal but I'm told that RV's are still selling well. If you buy used be sure to check the holding tanks (if in a cold climate) for freeze damage. Look at the roof around the AC units to insure it's not sagging in that area. Good luck in your quest.
 
Pat-

Rather than buy a 5th wheel and then be stuck with the either/or situation with taking the CD-25 / 16 vs the 5th wheel, why not buy a good sized tow vehicle, say a 3/4 or one ton truck with a camper or camper shell on it for storage and support gear, and then just tow the CD-25 around with it as a boaterhome? This way you always have one of the boats, a portable home, and plenty of storage space that you can pack for the specific trip? Less to purchase, too, if you can trade in one tow vehicle on another. Get a good fiberglass ladder to get into the boat with, and figure out how to stow it on your boat trailer or camper top.

Having the boat available all the time when vacationing would be a real plus vs. having to decide which to take, etc.

Less total property taxes, license fees, and storage costs, too!

Just my $0.05 opinion (Got to keep up with Jim's inflationary projections!)

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Well, little nephew, your uncle has been there, done that. I've had several 5th wheels, starting in 1975 and ending just two years ago when we bought our first Class C. From no slide to slideouts, Terry (cheap) to Alpenlite (NOT cheap.) 17 ft. to 32 ft.

Knowing you personally helps. Although you might be legally able to tow both a 5th wheel and a boat simultaneously, I think you'd be best to forget that. Leave it to the ex truckers.

For your "style" (lengthy stays here and there) IMHO a 5th wheel towed by a stout diesel powered truck would be closer to ideal. The truck makes short work of a C-22/25 as well, is handy to have around as a second vehicle, and gets fairly good mileage both towing and not towing.

During our lengthy ownership, we full timed for almost a year, traveling around the US and Canada. As a former submariner, I can handle close quarters and we both live "out of" our RV, and not in it so 26-29 ft. was our "sweet spot". The main downside is the bed. Not sleeping in it - making it. If you're gonna travel a lot, tall versions suck up the fuel from wind resistance but make bed making easier. Shorter versions mean shorter people to make that d*** front bed. If you're comfortable with it, just close off the bed area and make it once/week. Since Patty's like Mary, she'll be up there every day cussing and futzing. :lol:

5th wheel trailers are fairly easy to set up and park, once you learn the fundamentals but they don't normally come with a generator so dry camping or stopping at a rest stop for lunch means no air conditioning. A big deal in AZ/NM/TX! There are new generator setups that mount outside the unit in the rear, and there are truck mounted generators as well as built in generators, but in general you won't find them in wide use. That means camping in a regular (no longer cheap) campground with hookups.

Don't kid yourself. ALL RV'ers eventually tow. Heck, we love to sightsee and the big Silverado diesel was manageable around tourist towns. Now we're in a 23.5 ft. Lazy Daze Class C (LD) and we still tow. The Chevy HHR or the Jenny B. The HHR only subtracts 1 mpg from the LD so we get to a spot (wilderness OR developed) set up the LD and go sightseeing in the fuel frugal HHR. Ask around and you'll find that over 90% of Class A owners tow a "toad" and a large chunk of class C owners do too.

When we sold our last 5'er, I kept the diesel truck. It was fully rigged for towing (including air bags) and we weren't sure Class C was for us. It is. For us, smaller is better. Wanna buy a great truck with under 50k miles on it? :mrgreen:

Don
 
We have owned RV's for over 45 years--almost excusively Class "A", "B" or C's--(B is a van conversion. Currently we have a 30 foot Holiday Rambler, gas engine and get 8 miles a gallon. We have owned larger diesel pushers, which got slightly better mileage, but with the price of diesel--that advantage is narrowed. We tow either a Honda Pilot, or the CD 25 behind the RV (the transmission and tow gear has been beefed up). At times, Marie will run interference for me with the Honda Pilot (driven separately). We drive equal times:2 hours on, 2 hours off.

We also have a 19 foot Road Trek (Class B, dropped floor)--good for urban "Stealth camping", which we are making capable to towing the 25. That is not a bad way to go either. The Class B has much less living room, than the Class A.

We have never been a fan of slides--they can leak, get stuck, limit access etc--and see the results every day of these when traveling. With the Class A or B- we can stop anywhere--parking lots (Walmart), Cracker Barrel, on the streets (of some towns) and truck stops--as well as just pull off the road in many rural areas. We don't have to stop to get food, or use the restroom.

I have never been a fan of 5th wheelers. To me they are bulky and comberson--we just pull in and park--the fith wheelers have to "set up"--put in the brace, uncouple--etc. But that is what works for us....
 
Pat,
No one has mentioned towing a conventional travel trailer. With your current truck, which you have indicated you really like, you could tow a 26-28 foot trailer. With the proper hitch and sway control (about the same cost as a fifth wheel hitch) conventional trailers tow just as well as a fifth wheel. Additionally they are much lower and weight being equal will give slightly better fuel mileage. Another advantage is the ability to load the back of the truck with all the "extras" you would need for an extended stay at your destination. I have owned and used slide in truck campers, fifth wheels, and now have a conventional trailer with a slide out. I personally feel the slide outs are worthwhile. I think the newest models have worked most of the bugs out of slide-outs and in a smaller RV it really opens up the main living area. On the downside of conventional trailers they are slightly more hassle to hook up to the tow vehicle because the hitch is down low where the driver can not see it. If your travels involve mainly unhooking and staying one place for extended periods then this disadvantage is mostly moot. I still prefer my slide in truck camper to all others because I can tow the boat behind it. I can easily remove it and have the truck for shopping or sightseeing or launching the boat. Now that you have every possible point of view-your decision probably won't be any easier.
 
Like boats, RV's look like a real buyer's market right now. Our local RV manufacturer just closed. They made everything from small trailers to $300,000 plus motorhomes. None of the line was selling well enough to keep the wolf from the door. I also read that Winnebagos sales are down 40% and they're downsizing as fast as they can in order to stay in business. Not a good business to be in right now, but it looks like a great time to buy an RV. However, if I were in the market for a new RV I would negotiate based on the idea that your warranty might not exist next year.
Lyle
 
If anyone has a nice 5th wheel with pull out sides who may want to consider trading for my CD-25 let me know. We had been looking at DoubleTree & Jayco.
We have our CD for sale and plan on purchasing a 5th wheel this may be an option. Let me know
 
Hi Pat,

We were RVers long before we got into C_Dorying. There is nothing that goes down the road like a Class A diesel pusher on a bus chassis. We had several and always did well with trading up. When it came time to get rid of the last one a few years ago, we took a horrible beating. But when traveling with it, the living is GOOD.

We also had a Class B that was great for traveling, but not for any kind of extended stay. When it came time to get an RV for this summer, I wanted a 5th wheel, Joan wanted to get something less expensive in case we don't pursue RVing in the future. We compromised and (of course) did it her way. :wink: I researched the 5th wheel market, and (IMHO) the best made unit for the price is Nu-Wa (made in Chanute, KS). They are designed for 4 season living, and approved for full-time camping. If I were to buy a 5th wheel in the near future, that would be my choice.

I had never pulled a travel trailer before we bought this toy-hauler. We use an equalizer hitch, and it tows great. After this, I would have little concern with a conventional travel trailer, but it seems that many of the 5th wheels have more storage and seem more substantial.

We enjoy the RV lifestyle, but as you said, it is not easy to haul some sort of RV and an 8500 pound boat/trailer. I'd be happy to visit with you about this at your convenience. Drop me a note sometime.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Pat and Patty -

Nice chatting today with you folks. Now, regarding the RV lifestyle, I think you know what we are going to say.

Like purchasing a boat, the first question is "How are we going to use it?" Going to go somewhere in a relatively straight line -- set it up, and leave it for days, weeks, or months? Or, are you going to be moving along, with only a night or two at any one place? Going into some back country, or 99% on freeways?

Second question, "How much space and creature comfort do we need (not want, but need)?"

Third, "Will we want a boat along with us, and if so, as Joe stated, why not use the boat for the RV en route to boating spots?"

As you know, we lived in our Alaska camper (slide-in on a Ford F-250) for virtually all our 'land time' for 13 years. We had no house. When not in the camper, we were on our boat -- either on the water or when en route to water.

So our camper (or boat) was home -- not just for vacations but all the time -- we loved the freedom. Those folks dragging around the big things had complexities, costs, and problems we never knew. We were a turtle, with our home always with us -- we didn't have to double back to an RV park every evening -- nor were we linked to 'shore power.'


So we would suggest the answer to what RV is the right one will be different depending on the answers to those three simple questions.
 
Bill and El, I guess I could have written your post for you! The rub for us is, we want to do both! We think we might want to stay put, say, alongside the Colorado River in Yuma for months, enjoying the winter warmth every year. I'm pretty sure most of our Upper Left Coast Brats can relate to that, after the last couple of winters here! And several months in Lakewood to visit Conor, Lydia and our (as yet unborn) grandchildren (plus some other folks we know who live there) - plus, Lakewood (and Denver) is just one of the cool places on Earth - somebody told me they have 300+ sunny days a year there! So for that, we want some elbow room that a fifth wheel seems to best afford. (I know, "want," "need," "want," "need"!) But we want to be cruising America (and Canada and maybe Mexico) too! I am so looking forward to Lake Powell in September, and other than that wonderful week on the Chesapeake, Powell will be the farthest east we have boated - so many places to see, so little time! For that, a Class C that can tow a boat would seem to be the ticket, although a camper or just using Daydream as a "boaterhome" would work fine too. Plus, right now, it is all just hot air anyway!
 
One thing to think about is since your goal in part is to escape the winter weather you will probably be speeding a lot of time outside enjoying the warmer climate. Especially if what every type of rig you select has and awning. With this in mind a smaller unit would most likely be okay. As someone suggested I believe I'd do a trial trip using the 25 as a home and see how it works out it may be all you need.
 
Pat-You already have everything you need-and if you think about it, everything you want. Except maybe, as Marvin rightly points out, an awning.
You are right, it's all hot air now, but, as one who created a fine brewery from what was one day just hot air, things have a way of, well, you know. When I look at the picture that Oldgrowth Dave took of you and Patty on the Crabby Lou. my thought was "it don't get any better than that" So my advice is this-
1. Make all your travel arrangements on your Mac
2. If it comes with lug nuts you don't want it
3. What ever you decide to do, do it sooner than later
4. Keep in touch
 
interesting subject and for me, very timely, as last evening i visited our local motorhome dealership, www.holmanrv.com enjoyed my visit with them and checked out class "A" and "C" motorhomes.
would like the best unit to tow our c-dory as well as creature comforts for extended stays abroad. saw several c homes new price 42k to 49k. with and without slides. also checked out the class a 32', 34' 36' and 37'. new 34' gas, two slides, priced at or about 59k. it took me 15 years to figure out what kind of boating a wanted to do and the best boat for that, don't want to make the same mistakes with motorhomes! so, motorhome needs to be big enough to be comfortable, can tow a 5000lb or less boat and also when the boat is launched the motorhome then needs to be small enough to be driven as our primary transportation.
keep the suggestions coming, am learning much from the experiences of the c-brat members.
pat
 
Pat,

You know this is somewhat like that eternal chain of buying a house, adding a porch, roofing the porch, windowing in the porch, then needing an open porch, etc....

For me, overnighting on the road on the way to a new marina works well in the TomCat, but it is not fun to have to climb up and down a million times in a long term campsite. I have seen how well Bill and El get along "boaterhoming" in person, but they seem to be pretty unique ppl!

I have had trailers, but prefer the motorhome of some kind for "exploring", where you can just stop on a whim to explore and come back to a heated or A/C'ed environment, change clothes, eat, take a quick nap in a Wal-Mart lot, etc.. Also, you can eat going down the road, nap comfortably while another drives, etc..

5 years ago I bought Holiday Rambler's entry level diesel pusher, a Neptune 32 with aluminum body and a smaller Cummins 275. The aluminum model is about 3800 lbs lighter than the comparable fiberglass ones, so it can get up to 14 mpg (going downhill, with the wind, without running the genset). Going 75, running all three A/C units and the genset, TV, etc., we usually get 9.3-9.6 mpg over our last several 3,000+ mile trips. The 275 can only pull 3500 pounds, but the newer models all have 300 or greater HP Cummins engines with a base tow limit of about 5,000 pounds.

These Neptune units are made by Monaco Coach and most of the components are the same as these luxury models. The Cummins engine service interval is once every 100,000 miles other than oil changes at 15,000 mi intervals. The shorter 32 foot model with slides allows a lot of room, use with slides in or out, and the 45 degree steering let us parallel park in most places where 2 normal cars fit.

So, an entry level model of a diesel pusher manufactured by a large, high quality company will get you most of the bells and whistles and reliability at a much lower cost, especially considering today's economic realities. Most of us could not sell our motorhomes for what we owe on them.

If you're looking at motorhomes, I'd advise a short unit, diesel pusher with slide outs that permit using the unit with them in. We have not yet needed a towed car (dinghy or toad). If we really need something like that, we can easily rent a car locally. The money you save on towing gas could easily pay for a rental. The shorter, sharp turning motorhomes can be used for many errands and shopping, giving you the luxury of A/C , privat bathroom, rest stop, and clothes changes any time. Some friends of mine mount scooters on the hitch for most running around.

Another thought, looking at what is happening at the large marina communities from the Gulf Coast, Texas, Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Kansas is that they are NOT very busy and many have cabins or condos for rent by the day, week, month or year for a song right now. You could overnight on your "boaterhome" (I hate to leave mine alone in a motel parking lot anyway) in Wal-Mart or a truck stop and then luxuriate with a covered slip and a walking distance cabin/condo.

Good luck!

John
 
I've owned two motorhomes over the years. The first was a class C 24 foot Winnebago and the second was a 33 foot Pace Arrow class A. While I never attempted to launch a boat with either I did pull a car hauler 4 wheel trailer with both. I can tell you from that experience backing a trailer with a motorhome was a nightmare for me. If I intended to do it on a regular basis I would install a front mounted hitch. Perhaps someone with experience launching a boat from a motorhome will chime in. Also you can forget about being able to back a car or jeep being pulled on its own wheels.
 
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