eLoran
- Thread starter Grumpy
- Start date
I used Loran back in the day... before GPS was available to the public. It worked and was reliable. I have read in the past that the US intended to shut down the Loran stations, but have no idea if that ever came to pass. It was older technology, but (considering the huge amount of waste in the federal budget) I can't imagine it would have taken much of a budget to keep it functional.
Captains Cat
New member
Thank you WikiPedia...
LORAN (LOng RAnge Navigation[1]) is a terrestrial radio navigation system which enables ships and aircraft to determine their position and speed from low frequency radio signals transmitted by fixed land based radio beacons, using a receiver unit.
The most recent version of LORAN in use is LORAN-C, which operates in the low frequency (LF) portion of the radio spectrum from 90 to 110 kHz. Many nations have used the system, including the United States, Japan, and several European countries. Russia uses a nearly identical system in the same frequency range, called CHAYKA.
In recent decades, LORAN use has been in steep decline, with the satellite-based Global Positioning System (GPS) being the primary replacement. However, there have been attempts to enhance and re-popularize LORAN, mainly to serve as a backup and land-based alternative to GPS and other satellite navigation systems.
The current LORAN system has been phased out in the United States and Canada. The United States Coast Guard (USCG) and Canadian Coast Guard (CCG) ceased transmitting LORAN-C (and joint CHAYKA) signals in 2010.[2][3]
LORAN (LOng RAnge Navigation[1]) is a terrestrial radio navigation system which enables ships and aircraft to determine their position and speed from low frequency radio signals transmitted by fixed land based radio beacons, using a receiver unit.
The most recent version of LORAN in use is LORAN-C, which operates in the low frequency (LF) portion of the radio spectrum from 90 to 110 kHz. Many nations have used the system, including the United States, Japan, and several European countries. Russia uses a nearly identical system in the same frequency range, called CHAYKA.
In recent decades, LORAN use has been in steep decline, with the satellite-based Global Positioning System (GPS) being the primary replacement. However, there have been attempts to enhance and re-popularize LORAN, mainly to serve as a backup and land-based alternative to GPS and other satellite navigation systems.
The current LORAN system has been phased out in the United States and Canada. The United States Coast Guard (USCG) and Canadian Coast Guard (CCG) ceased transmitting LORAN-C (and joint CHAYKA) signals in 2010.[2][3]
Charlie,
wasn't the decision to phase out Loran C based on unwillingness to upgrade to E Loran ($$$) ??
I seem to remember some discussion on here and other articles about it.
That is why I found it amusing that EU decided to go the other way (again)
When we lived on "your" coast we used Loran C and for me it's great virtue was not in accuracy but almost absolute repeatability, Once you found a spot you return to it within a few feet.
Memories of returning from Tuna fishing in Maine in fog and nearly ramming the LNB off Portland 'cos it was one of my waypoints :embarrased didn't clear until halfway up the river in Portsmouth.
M
wasn't the decision to phase out Loran C based on unwillingness to upgrade to E Loran ($$$) ??
I seem to remember some discussion on here and other articles about it.
That is why I found it amusing that EU decided to go the other way (again)
When we lived on "your" coast we used Loran C and for me it's great virtue was not in accuracy but almost absolute repeatability, Once you found a spot you return to it within a few feet.
Memories of returning from Tuna fishing in Maine in fog and nearly ramming the LNB off Portland 'cos it was one of my waypoints :embarrased didn't clear until halfway up the river in Portsmouth.
M
There is a "white paper" Written in 2007 on Loran e at:
http://www.loran.org/ILAArchive/eLoran% ... nt-1.0.pdf
Key difference between the eLoran transmitted signal and the traditional Loran-C signal is the addition of a data channel. The data channel conveys corrections, warnings, and signal integrity information to the user's receiver via the eLoran transmission.
Sitex makes an add on Loran e/GPS receiver for their other electronics SI-TEX Navmate, COLORMAX Series, Trawlplot, and Explorer Plus. Charting Systems and P-SEA Windplot II software.
As low as $600 street price...limited Loran e, but I believe it will work with existing Loran C which is pretty short supply!
It would have been great to have spent a few million to keep Loran C in active status, and add the data channel, but now that it has been decommissioned, I doubt that we will see it again in the US. Too bad we don't have an alternative to GPS. Yes, it was completely shut down in 2010. There are a few chains in Saudi Arabia. Japan and S. Korea also used to have Loran C chains.
For long distance cruising it was OK--but there were a lot of gaps--you had to deal with sky wave vs ground wave. Also propagation over the ground caused errors. Agree with "Grumpy" about the issues. However, now we have no back up Keep that Sextant polished up!
http://www.loran.org/ILAArchive/eLoran% ... nt-1.0.pdf
Key difference between the eLoran transmitted signal and the traditional Loran-C signal is the addition of a data channel. The data channel conveys corrections, warnings, and signal integrity information to the user's receiver via the eLoran transmission.
Sitex makes an add on Loran e/GPS receiver for their other electronics SI-TEX Navmate, COLORMAX Series, Trawlplot, and Explorer Plus. Charting Systems and P-SEA Windplot II software.
As low as $600 street price...limited Loran e, but I believe it will work with existing Loran C which is pretty short supply!
It would have been great to have spent a few million to keep Loran C in active status, and add the data channel, but now that it has been decommissioned, I doubt that we will see it again in the US. Too bad we don't have an alternative to GPS. Yes, it was completely shut down in 2010. There are a few chains in Saudi Arabia. Japan and S. Korea also used to have Loran C chains.
For long distance cruising it was OK--but there were a lot of gaps--you had to deal with sky wave vs ground wave. Also propagation over the ground caused errors. Agree with "Grumpy" about the issues. However, now we have no back up Keep that Sextant polished up!
journey on
New member
Well, Glonass can provide the redundancy that Loran is claimed to. That is if we'll sell those phones in the USA. Samsung has a new phone that works with Glonass, but introduced it in Berlin.
I can hardly wait until China introduces the combined GPS/Glonass receiver.
And, by golly, they do sell GPS blockers, which I assume just overpowers the GPS signal. That must be a broadband white noise, since the GPS signal is spread spectrum, to allow them to use low power. They must only work for a few meters, since they're sold as a spy device to make sure you (or your car) doesn't get tracked. And of course they're illegal. How about the stealth C-Dory?
Yours for more satellites up there, Boris
I can hardly wait until China introduces the combined GPS/Glonass receiver.
And, by golly, they do sell GPS blockers, which I assume just overpowers the GPS signal. That must be a broadband white noise, since the GPS signal is spread spectrum, to allow them to use low power. They must only work for a few meters, since they're sold as a spy device to make sure you (or your car) doesn't get tracked. And of course they're illegal. How about the stealth C-Dory?
Yours for more satellites up there, Boris
The blocking of GPS works an a fairly wide area--depending on the power of the transmitter. For example--remember LightSquared terrestrial transmitters jamming of the GPS signals? There have been instances of airplanes being blocked for a number of square miles.
If someone is gong to jam the GPS system, then most likely will jam Glonass and perhaps Galileo
It is said that the I phone 4s & 5 has the Glonass chip as well as the US GPS system.
Some information on the three systems:
http://www.ifp.uni-stuttgart.de/publications/phowo07/220Eissfeller.pdf
In 1997 there was a 4 watt Russian jammer, which would jam GPS (and Glonass) for a range of 125 miles. This could cause some serious damage for navigation in high density propulation areas. It would not be at hard to boost that up to 100 watts, and with the proper tower or mountain, could blank out a significant part of the country. Although the GPS jammer is illegal in the use--instructions/ diagrams are on the internet--a amp to take this to 4 or 10 watts is not that expensive--antennas are easy...
If someone is gong to jam the GPS system, then most likely will jam Glonass and perhaps Galileo
It is said that the I phone 4s & 5 has the Glonass chip as well as the US GPS system.
Some information on the three systems:
http://www.ifp.uni-stuttgart.de/publications/phowo07/220Eissfeller.pdf
In 1997 there was a 4 watt Russian jammer, which would jam GPS (and Glonass) for a range of 125 miles. This could cause some serious damage for navigation in high density propulation areas. It would not be at hard to boost that up to 100 watts, and with the proper tower or mountain, could blank out a significant part of the country. Although the GPS jammer is illegal in the use--instructions/ diagrams are on the internet--a amp to take this to 4 or 10 watts is not that expensive--antennas are easy...
Coming from aviation and owning a airplane mounted LORAN receiver, I was very disappointed that the system was shut down. Spoke to an FAA contractor recently about resurrecting the system as eLORAN, and he said there is an interest in doing that. Apparently, a lot of institutions like banks and so forth rely on GPS for timing signals. In the event of a GPS denial attack, it could cause a lot of trouble in this regard, never mind navigation!
I think it would be a very good idea to have a ground based secondary area navigation backup to GPS for civil aviation as well as all of the other things we now rely on GPS for. Would be a drop in th bucket compared to all of the money the Federal government wastes these days!
Pete
I think it would be a very good idea to have a ground based secondary area navigation backup to GPS for civil aviation as well as all of the other things we now rely on GPS for. Would be a drop in th bucket compared to all of the money the Federal government wastes these days!
Pete
If you note the "Jammer" products which are being pushed by CalebMcanelly are from a company in China. I have a suspician that they would be illegal in the United states. Not only is transmission on the frequencies listed are illegal, but the power output listed is also illegal.
I would consider this spam.
I would consider this spam.