Do any brats use marine charts?

John, your 2013 chip is probably just as accurate as my 2016 data update straight from Garmin! :D And if I were to believe the perfect accuracy of those digital charts, my boat does just find cruising on land without a trailer under it! :mrgreen: Good to see you again at Hontoon! Colby
 
Yes, I like the big picture of a folded chart on my table with my preplanned trip with possible safe hides & anchorages. I use the chart plotter for following the course and depth. Local waters I don't use the charts much, mostly on exploring new areas. I love planning a trip on large 3x4' charts and marking the course in pencil with places to stay or avoid in highlighters, then plot a trail of waypoints on the chart plotter to follow. Jim
 
There are still a number of chart books, and the "Fishing Charts" available for many lakes, and coastal areas. I donated a number for the auction at Hontoon. These are smaller than the large NOAA charts, and convenient to stow. I already have the Tennessee River book (Corp of Engineers) thanks to another C Brat and have ordered the Cumberland River ($15plus shipping). These are on quality paper and spiral bound.

You can also print any chart on demand at home, from the NOAA or Corp of engineers. I use a laser printer, and either seal in a laminate pouch, or protective vinyl sleeve--put them in a notebook. Not quite as convenient as the large charts, but stow well. When we did AK in the 1990's we have over 200 charts on the Cal 46, but that was a boat which had specific storage for a full sized chart folded in half. The same are was covered in a chart book for the C Dory on our trip in the 2008 era.
 
We carried more than 100 charts on our CD22 for our first SE AK cruise. Most were photocopies, so less bulky and heavy than regular charts. Carried them also for many years on our 26-footer, but have not for the last two years on the Nordic Tug, despite having a lot more room.

We have 2 fixed chartplotters, one handheld with chips, Coastal Explorer on a laptop, and two apps with charts on a phone. So as long as the GPS signal is there, we feel pretty safe. Detailed familiarity with most of our cruising area, plus a compass and RADAR, help us feel safe as well.
 
Lollygaggin":1nby0kyl said:
I'm old fashioned. I still use paper charts, practice DR navigation, plot courses and tracs, and take bearings to determine position. And even with all these precautions I have occasionally been caught off guard and calculated a fix that was quite a few meters off my DR position. Sure beats running aground because of electronic chart error. I guess it just serves to keep me on my toes.
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X2, I always plot a course on a paper chart for any new area.
Garmin etc. get there chart updates from NOAA just like everybody else. :wink: NOAA has a discrepancy reporting feature also. I see a NOAA survey vessel at least once a year in the Gulf of Alaska, PWS, Cook Inlet . Like thataway said, you can download & print the latest NOAA chart for free at NOAA website. :mrgreen: Good luck!!
 
I carry paper charts and my GPS.
All of my longer trips are planned on the kitchen table long before shoving off.
I also have a safe harbor, and route there, planed for various spots along my proposed route in anticipation of a change in weather, etc.

Gary Palsgrove
C-Song
 
I Always have the paper chart open while traveling. It’s law in Canada that they’re aboard. GPS is not infallible, neither is your equipment. I’ve found rocks on paper that plotters don’t show. Go to Arctic waters sometime. Yikes.
So yes for me. I don’t do bearing fixes or course plots currently but the eyes go from paper to screen constantly if it all matches that’s good. If not I stop.
Squitty Bay on the south end of Lasquiti Island comes to mind. You want paper, screens, eyeballs and cajones to get it there
George
 
I have sets of Puget Sound, B.C. etc. on board. Navigate via Garmin unit (740S) and just got a new 10.5" i-Pad w/ GPS as a secondary unit.

I have an old Gamin unit that I'm pulling out. It was our original unit when we bought the boat in '09. It's basically obsolete now. I'd be surprised if I could give it away.

The paper charts have a use. I like the ability to see the "big picture". We will frequently open them up on the dinette table as we travel. Plus, paper never die or run out of power.
 
We have the " Fishin Map" charts and a chart book. The fishing map charts are really good. We use them and the chart book for planning and for Susan to learn the islands and keep track of were we are when I am driving. If something happens she has a idea of our location. The GPS and Radio have a better idea but are only good if the boat is floating. If we have to go in the water and use the hand helds I want her to be able to call and report with some accuracy.

I think the chart plotters are far more accurate then any one is with a map even under the best of conditions. Range is the worse thing to quess at. I have people on the boat tell me we are 2 miles off shore and we are only 300 yards off shore. Distance is just hard to guess is you do not do it a lot.

If you get caught in the fog there is no way to navigate really on paper. You have to know where you were to start and everything else is based on that . I think if someone was really good with paper charts they might be within a 1/2 mile of were they really are, which is great in the ocean but not so good in the San Juans.

many of the new plotters can redraw the depth on to your chart as you are traveling. The more you travel a area the better your charts will be.

If I was going north in to remote areas in a bigger boat I would op for the forward looking sonars. Charts are only a representation of reality. I have ran rivers and lake with out a chart plotter or even a depth finder for many years. Head up and eyes open and learn to read water.
 
We've been around, over and through the United States and parts of Canada. So we use "Chart Books". These are published by various sources: Maptech, Evergreen, New York Canal Authority etc. We couldn't carry the amount of paper charts one would need for some of the trips. But now, Chart Books proved a handy way of having paper charts on board for planning, seeing what's ahead or any other use one may have.

One may download the official NOAA and Core of Engineer charts for the USA in digital format or you can print them either as separate sheets or as a Chart Book.

We also use a Lowrance MFD as our instantaneous navigational device.

It's what is best suited to the task. Paper, various projections or electronic; each type is the best for a particular purpose.

Boris
 
“Learn to read the water,” he says... “The more you travel an area the better the charts will be,” he says.

Why, I remember a time...

:twisted:

8)

:mrgreen:
 
Awesome discussion to be going on while I'm in my Captains course. I personally side with Tom. Are you all using the chart to navigate or to plan? If navigation is your answer, how often do you update your course? If you're not updating at some frequency how are you navigating? Are you updating your lat/long with GPS position, or shooting 3 known land targets, or are you using radar rings? How old are your maps? Are you correcting for annual rate of change? Are you dead reckoning? If so, in less than a minute with currents working against you, you're off target anyway.

Im all for one being prepared, and practice is a necessity to keep a perishable skill. But I'm hard pressed to believe when the fog got thick and lands out of sight, and your chartplotter dies you'd reach for a chart instead of a backup GPS unit! I know someone will bring up compasses, and to that I'd ask how many of yours are truley on? Do you have course correction cards? Did you run it with electronics working, or now off as the situation dictates. Yes GPS can fail you, but human error has a much greater fail rate.

Oh, and I learned if you have radar, you shall run it! Who knew?

Have fun guys!
John
Scallywag
 
I teach people to create maps and data for maps professionally and have done so for quite some time. I love maps for air, land, and sea, can can use them all navigationally very well. But I use a Garmin sitting next to another Garmin sitting next to my phone with Navionics loaded and sometimes running at the same time. There is no getting away from that dynamic view of where you are and where you are headed. Maps are great, but I think they are better suited to planning or daydreaming for most rec boaters. But if you go where maps and map data is sparse. Use all you senses and any tool that helps improves awareness.

Greg
 
Learn to read the water,” he says...
Click to expand...

There were/are Micronesian & Polynesian "master navigators" who "read the water". They use only the sun, moon, waves, wind, sea birds etc to navigate The Pacific ocean.

No instruments. No sextants. No GPS. No modern western tools. Just their eyes, some rudimentary ancient tools and experience.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation

Mau Piailug was of Micronesian decent. He was the teacher of Nainoa Thompson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nainoa_Thompson
 
I carry paper charts of the area I am in, also a chart book. But, I use mostly, my Raymarine plotter, a smaller Garmin plotter, a Samsung tablet with GPS, and a phone. The last 2 are strictly backup, but often the tablet has the big picture view on. For Desolation Sound and the Broughtons I have a planing "map" that is very useful and usually open on the table.

I have had the plotter go south twice. Once right in Friday Harbor on a bright, clear day, right out in front of the ferry and sea plane section. Unnerving but running VFR was no problem there. And it was my only plotter on board at the time. The second time it went off was crossing Juan de Fuca, relatively calm, mild fog, enough to obliterate the north and south shore. Coincidence I'm sure but just as an Orca surfaced, crossing about 75 ysrds in front of me the screen went off. No problem this time, the little Garmin was up and running. Did the shutdown and restart on the Raymarine and we were back in bisiness.

Electrinics can fail, but I agree, human error in location plotting, especially were there are tidal currents that are moving at multiple knots per hour are going to make DR and even 3 point positioning difficult and inaccurate.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
Brewkid":30kb5mh6 said:
But I'm hard pressed to believe when the fog got thick and lands out of sight, and your chartplotter dies you'd reach for a chart instead of a backup GPS unit!
Scallywag
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Under these exact circumstances, pre radar, we managed to navigate safely back to our moorage some 20 nautical miles away by comparing our depth sounder readings to the paper charts. I guess it's all in the way you learn to use your tools.
 
Lollygaggin":2mfrvznj said:
Brewkid":2mfrvznj said:
But I'm hard pressed to believe when the fog got thick and lands out of sight, and your chartplotter dies you'd reach for a chart instead of a backup GPS unit!
Scallywag
Click to expand...

Under these exact circumstances, pre radar, we managed to navigate safely back to our moorage some 20 nautical miles away by comparing our depth sounder readings to the paper charts. I guess it's all in the way you learn to use your tools.
Click to expand...

Smart.
 
Lollygaggin, that discussion also came up today. I personally wouldn't go out of the way to install a stand alone sounder on a vessel of our size, and if I did, it would be in the version of another chartplotter combo on a separate circuit for redundancy. Chartplotters have come down so much in price, you're talking $100 more for a cheap combo to not follow depthlines home.

Knowledge is a great tool to have no doubt.

John
Scallywag.
 
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