DIESEL GETTING UGLY

Our primary vehicle is a 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid. I mention this because I do believe in hybrid technology for today's needs -- when appropriate.

Unfortunately, according to this road test by Edmunds the Tahoe Hybrid only offers a 3 mpg increase over non-hybrid and tows 1300-2000 lbs. less than the non-hybrid -- 6200-8200 lbs. It also costs $51K, a $6900 premium.

Too bad, because I would love to replace my 3/4 ton diesel Tom Cat tow truck with something more green, and for not so much green. :mrgreen:

Warren
 
Mike/Sealife: you make some good suggestions and some that I think are very poor. I personally intend to boat just as much as ever this Summer in order to keep myself ahead of the stone age. I will obviously need to budget for the fuel I'll consume. What I won't do is whine to anyone who'll listen about how expensive gas is while I enjoy my boat, ATV, riding mower, cars, etc. etc. These are luxury choices I make that the world doesn't owe me. Nor will I delude myself that some politician is gonna step in and make it all better for me. In fact, the less that politicians "do" for me the better! Mike.
 
One of the problems here is that when a barrel of crude oil(42US gallons) is refined it produces about 20 gals gasoline, 10 gallons diesel, and heating oil,jet fuel, and other fuels and chemicals.

The ratio of gasoline to diesel produced means that if the demand for diesel rises, and the demand for gasoline falls, then diesel becomes more expensive than gasoline. We cannot get all-diesel from a barrel of crude so we cannot convert all vehicles to diesel.
 
hi tom,
i'll take a stab at why our fuel cost has risen and most likely will continue.
1. a barrel of oil has a given value. if the value to the producer is $80.00 and the customer purchasing the oil is paying the producer with monies having the same value as the producers money, then the customer would pay $80.00 for the product.
our problem is, our $80.00 has a lesser value than that of the producers $80.00, therefore our price must be adjusted to the point it equals the producers value. if, on the other hand, our $80.00 had a greater value than that of the producers 80, we would pay less for the same product.
2. other countries have increased their consumption, thus causing greater need for the producers product. greater demand, less supply, greater cost to consumer.
3. if we strengthen the value of our dollar, increase our own production of oil, and at the same time reduce the tax burden, requirements and restrictions on our oil producing companies, reduce our consumption, then i believe our cost at the pump will level at, not necessarily come down but certainly show signs of stability.
4. we have three democrats running for president, obama, clinton and mCcain. doesn't matter which wins, none of them can do any worst than bush, whom i voted for. if they don't come to grips with this fuel thing, i fear bad times are indeed ahead. cost of everything will increase. i need people to buy my product, if they don't, i can't purchase your product!
now, having said way to much and probably not even correct about the issues, i want to remember that life's short and in the end it won't matter what happens. so, my most humble recommendation, don't drink cheap wine, grab the most out of each day and count whatever blessings you have.
i am most fortunate to have found the c-dory line, this site and the posters to it.
well, i'm off to lake cumberland, may drown a couple of worms, consume a fine glass of wine and who knows, may even whisper sweet nothings into my firstmate's (wife's) ear.
have a great day!
best regards
pat
 
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Diesel is $4.69 a gallon as of 2:46pm on 5-15-08 on this island. Of course there are only 14 miles of road, the last time I filled up was two months ago and a traffic jam is considered three vehicles at one of our two stop lights.

Banks sells a computer system that can help most diesels get better mileage, that is if you keep the dial on "economy" instead of "fry the tires" but it doesn't help a whole lot if your diesel never gets up to proper operating temperature due to your six mile drive to the ramp. Aw well, such is life in paradise, think I'll go out and find a fat King salmon to chase around :lol:
 
So long as the human population doubles every twenty years, the quality of life will decrease. There will be less room, fewer wild places, and more and more people competing for the remaining resources (salmon, oil, open ground, good soil, clean water, space for garbage). Freedoms will give way to the collective need and the masses will be manipulated, appeased and tranquilized with "soma" and "feelies" to quote Aldous Huxley's 1920 or 30s classic "Brave New World".

We can continue to condemn RV and big boat & pickup truck drivers.... but the people who have several children are making a much bigger and more selfish impact on things in the long run. In America it is those who are least able to afford the large families (or pay their taxes) that are having them -- while the more educated & higher wage earners are having fewer children.

Disease and War remain the levelers. When Iraq and Iran were at war they hated each other, sold oil cheap to pay for their conflict, and weren't as focused on hating us. Perhaps Pakistan will nuke India and demand for oil will be reduced. I'm not grotesquely wishing for this, just speculating on where the next big splash may happen.

I am glad I'm not under the collapsed school in China or hungry in the mud of Myanmar. I am going to boat where I can, when I can and feel good about it. This is my time. If I'm eventually reduced to using just my 12 ft. aluminum boat and 7.5 Johnson, so be it, I still feel like King of the World anytime I'm on the water.

Oh well, we're all just another fossil layer tucked within the geologic record. A speck on the windshield of life really. On my fossil I hope they find a smile, a boat and a few dog and fish bones. C.W.[/u]
 
CW":u0o2jrsa said:
We can continue to condemn RV and big boat & pickup truck drivers.... but the people who have several children are making a much bigger and more selfish impact on things in the long run.
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This is part of the reason I was so glad to finally leave Utah and the people who could not understand this.

Warren
 
I see this statement quite often. The earth has an overpopulation problem.

I would respectfully disagree with that statement. Now I would agree there are too many sheeple on the earth but the earth is capable of supporting many more than there are currently.

To put it in perspective, using the current guesstimate of the earths population, you could put the entire world’s population in the state of Texas (½ of 1% of the land mass of the earth) and there would be 1128 sq feet for each person. Or the closest person to you would be 34 feet from you. Or putting it another way, each family of four would have the equivalent of a small city lot to live on.

I will agree some portions of some countries are crowded, but the US is not one of them and the world as a whole is not.

Any country with a declining population is also going to experience a waning society.

Our problem is how we use our resources. The earth has enough to sustain the current population and more. There are more known oil reserves than we have used since man first used petroleum products for heat and energy. If you put most of it off limits, why are you mad at those that produce what is available to us.

Solar power, wind power, wave power and just about every other source of green power is not feasible at this time to supply us with our energy needs. It will probably be more than 50 years before any will, if ever.

We should be using nuclear power for most of our power needs and only use oil for transportation. If we quit heating with and generating electricity with oil we would reduce our dependency on it. Then we should drill every where we know there is oil. If this was our policy, we would not be dependent on the middle east for oil.

We would then have time to develop other sources for our energy needs, if they are needed and we should not be turning our food supply into fuel.
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Dave dlt.gif
 
Well said, Dave... except for that part about puttin' all the people in Texas - heck, it seems like they're all moving there as it is! :wink:

Now, a report on fuel prices as we've been traveling: we are currently back in our old stomping grounds of the Black Hills (South Dakota). We are pulling our "summer home" with our diesel pickup, so we've been paying particular attention to fuel prices. For years, we've made that treck between TX and SD, and kinda knew where to find the best fuel prices. Not so anymore. Even though there is a difference in state gas taxes, we are seeing little difference in price from state to state. The price for diesel has ranged from $3.99 (in deep south Texas) to $4.69 (in Nebraska); seems to average somewhere around $4.35 - $4.40. Flying J truckstops used to be the best price, now we look for Wal-Mart or Sam's Club (Murphy) fuel stations. We are using Mapquest's fuel watch to determine the best local price. They give you a date of the survey (usually a couple days earlier), and we find the price is generally a little higher, but you get an idea of who has the best price.

This is probably overly-simplistic, but we notice that when the national media tells about "the national average price", the prices seem to drift towards that number... even in markets that have always been lower priced. Price fixing? More often than not, the prices in any particular local market are close. When there is no other local competition, the prices are higher (that $4.69 price we saw is an example of that).

Here's how we look at it: at $4.50 per gallon, with our truck getting 15 miles per gallon, it is costing us 30¢ per mile in fuel costs to drive. We've done about 2,000 miles since we left home, so we have a pretty good idea of what this trip is costing us.

Now, keeping in mind what this particular thread is all about, and applying that same price per mile to our boats... well, our diesel truck doesn't seem so out of line. It's been two weeks since we put Wild Blue away, and I am missing my boat.

In less than a week, I'll start training on someone else's boat and they buy the fuel. :wink:

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Hi to all,

Dave's post was interesting.

I feel that we should be using more nukes to generate electric power. We can find a way to safely handle the waste. I live within 15 miles of Three Mile Island and I did not move during the problem. We continued to boat and canoe on the Susquehanna and we did not glow in the dark.

Our nation must start to use the oil that is in our ground. I am confident that it can be done safely for our enviroment. With the price of oil so high I think that many areas not used before can now produce oil. Amercian industry can accomplish much if the regulators and green nuts just let them room for profit.

Just my thoght.
 
Diesel is $4.92 per gallon here, up forty cents in two weeks. Unleaded is $3.91.

I'm off to fish for sturgeon, my buddy got three massive "keepers" yesterday (about 50 - 55" each, the biggest thick as a nice log, about 35 lbs.?) in 80 ft. of water on smelt.

for something bizarre, check out this news link about a massive ball of sturgeon, enough to fill 360 dump trucks.....

C.W.

http://www.katu.com/home/video/19035294.html?video=pop&t=a
 
Diesel is not the only price that is rising -- as the value of the US dollar has gone down relative to other currencies, and for many other reasons, we have had inflation affect prices -- anyone who has been to the grocery store recently, or who sold a house in '86 and sees its value today (even after the housing price decline) knows that all costs are remarkably higher. (Too bad our income isn't going up as fast :sad )
 
El and Bill":8ggzathk said:
Diesel is not the only price that is rising -- as the value of the US dollar has gone down relative to other currencies, and for many other reasons, we have had inflation affect prices -- anyone who has been to the grocery store recently, or who sold a house in '86 and sees its value today (even after the housing price decline) knows:
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, our government (and this is BOTH parties) has cooked the inflation (Cost of Living) figures for decades by changing the rules and the goods used as inflation markers. Inflation is obvious but admitting it opens the door to huge government expense since pay tables, Medicare tables, retirement tables and who knows what else is tied to Cost of Living. Much cheaper to focus on using hard drive prices as an example than gas prices.

Restaurants are raising prices on a weekly basis too it seems. (sigh)

Frankly, I don't know how military families survive in this economy even though commissary prices are about 25% lower than civilian prices. Inflation hits them hard.

Don
 
Agree on both parties. It's all just a game to them, and all you have to do is look to the "Energy Committee" as the "Energy Committee" is concerned with just about everything but energy even in this climate:

http://energycommerce.house.gov/

Schedule for next week:

http://energycommerce.house.gov/membios/schedule.shtml

The Congress:

http://speaker.house.gov/

Does anyone find it odd that instead of criticizing ourselves for not drilling our own oil, we criticize Saudi Arabia for not pumping their oil? If we said we were going to get serious about tapping the huge fields in the Gulf, off Ca., in the Atlantic (unexplored), ANWR, liquefying our coal reserves (250 year supply alone), building nuke plants (ala France), the whole futures market for oil would be torpedoed and we'd probably be back to 50¢ gas.

Sad to say it's all a game guys, and we've been had. The Democrats are going to win big this time -- the same folks that said vote for us and we'll bring gas prices down, last election. I predict gas prices will skyrocket as they put forth their green and punitive tax policies (on individuals and corporations). The Republicans will promise to fix the problem. People will get fed up with the Democrats and put the Republicans back in. The Republicans will sit on their big fat A and say they can't get anything done because of the Democrats . . . On and on and on. We've already seen the movie, but this time, people in the third world (and quite possibly here) will die of starvation because of it.

For America to work and eat, it requires energy available to all cheaply, not just the rich envirowacks who fly around in jets and tell us to ride bicycles and tighten the belt. High oil prices will starve the working poor of their jobs and then their food, we're already seeing it.

We don't know what the free market price of oil would be because we don't have a free market. We have eggheads in Washington manipulating the market by limiting drilling, manufacturing of energy plants, dictates of what types of "green" energy are acceptable, on and on.
 
This has been an interesting thread. I wonder how many of these suggestions, ideas, solutions have been forwarded to our employees aka elected government officials. IMHO, most of these problems have been caused by our employees.

I am now at an age where most people would call me a senior citizen. I don't feel like a senior citizen but then I've never been a senior citizen before. I have been around a while and have experienced life. I have seen a lot of changes, some good, some bad. What bothers me the most is how did we lost control of our lives.

People tell me that we have to cut back on everything we have worked for and that our grandchildren can not live as well as we have. Riding a bike some miles and then catch a bus is not living as well as I have. Ask those chinese who have turned in their bikes.

I want to be able to do something that I don't have to pay a tax on. Some estimates claim that a middle class wage earner pays up to 75% of his pay in taxes. First there is fed/SS and state/local taxes. Then you stop to get gas and more taxes. Go to the store and more taxes. It goes on and on.

How come our employees ban DDT and not tobacco. Could it be they didn't tax on DDT.

Why do our employees turn perfectly good food into something that is added to gas and yet pollutes the air more. Causes food shortages around the world and prices to skyrocket.

Why is a small percentage of employers allowed to have such a big influence on our employees. To the point where we cannot use the natural resources we have in our own country, yet scream that we have to reduce our dependence on foreign natural resources.

Why do I need permission from my employees to do most anything. Drive a car. Need permission. Drive a car on the road. Need permission. Build a tool shed on my property. Need permission and inspections. Burn a stump in my yard. Oops, need permission and told when I can burn it. It goes on and on.

Why do our employees continue to spend more than they take in. Not viable. We will go broke. Look at interest on savings and bonds. Next to nothing. That tells you what your dollar is worth.

With a balanced budget you would see a world of difference in the price of oil alone. I really don't care how they get to a balanced budget. Raise taxes or reduce spending. Either way is okay with me.

Our employees decided we needed a "Stimulus" to get the economy turned around. So they borrow because we don't have any money and then we have to pay taxes on the "Stimulus" and interest on the bonds forever.

Why is it that our employees immediately upon being hired, start campaigning to be rehired instead of doing the business we hired them to do in the first place.

Note to employers, we fired and hired a whole lot of new employees in 06. Can we say that we are better off now because of who we hired. This time whoever we hire, they are going to need a lot and I mean a lot of supervision. Are you prepared to do that. If not, nothing will change.

Thanks for letting give my thoughts on some of the things I have been thinking about.

Patrick MCPO USN RET.
 
JamesTXSD":22dseau4 said:
The price for diesel has ranged from $3.99 (in deep south Texas) to $4.69 (in Nebraska); seems to average somewhere around $4.35 - $4.40. Flying J truckstops used to be the best price, now we look for Wal-Mart or Sam's Club (Murphy) fuel stations. We are using Mapquest's fuel watch to determine the best local price. They give you a date of the survey (usually a couple days earlier), and we find the price is generally a little higher, but you get an idea of who has the best price.
Click to expand...

For us Mac users here is a useful widget.

Warren
 
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