Costs to maintain?

1TUBERIDER

New member
Most of us here have trailerable boats, which help keep costs down. I am considering a bigger boat to head west and I was wondering just how much more expensive are they to park and maintain? While underway are the costs even more or should you be completely self reliant to fix things and stay in areas where moorage is minimal?

I am primarily talking about a sail boat, but it looks like some of the trawlers available are some what reasonable in initial purchase price but now you have to buy energy to make way.

Am I just chasing a dream to find out that I don't have enough to be able to do it. My income is limited and I would rather not break the bank account to chase a dream. Can some of the underway costs be recovered by offering some sort of service while cruising?

I know some here have the answers! Can you share or advise.
 
Tuberider,

Just wondering how far West you're planning on going. If you mean Hawaii, you'll definitely need a larger boat!

As far as expenses on a trawler, I can offer some insight. Our trawler was a Krogen 39, about 43' overall. First expense is moorage. Depending on the location, expect to pay $300-$500/ Month. You will need to have it hauled about every 2 years and bottom painted. Along with that come new zincs and some service on the thruster(s). Usually a $2500-$3000 bill. In most states, there is some sort of yearly tax. In WA, it was $1500 to start and it decreased slightly as the boat aged. Insurance was also around $1500/year. Engine maintenance was straight forward and easily done by the owner. The John Deere 4045TFM was bulletproof. In 5 years, I changed oil, fuel filters, Alternator belt and water pump impeller only.

Underway, your expense is variable depending on how fast you feel you need to go. At around 6.5 kts, the Krogen got about 6 mpg! It's range on a 700 gallon tank was Seattle to Hilo,HI
and return unrefueled! That dropped to a 1500 mile range if you increased speed to 8 kts. If you carry a generator, you could save moorage fees on a cruise by anchoring out most nights.
Our 300 gallon water tank would last for several weeks.

If you're planning on cruising the great PNW however, a C-Dory 25 or TomCat is all the boat you need. Hope this helps.
 
Wow, that's a great question. Some of us have gone west before we got our C-Dorys. It's a whole different world, and wonderful. Some never come back, just keep on going.

From Cresent City, if I remember correctly, going west means you end up in Japan. So you'll have to define that term to pick a boat. Clearly, a trawler of any reasonable size ain't gonna make it from the USA to Japan. If you're talking about going down to Mexico, that's a different game, and a whole lot shorter and easier. You can even trailer your C-Dory down to get a taste of that life. Though that's actually going east.

West requires (for people of our means,) a sailboat and probably one 32' or greater. We used a 36 and Dr. Bob used a >40. So, once you get one of those, you need to practice cruising and maintenance; which is one and the same since cruising is the are of working on a boat in exotic places. And your costs are going to go up. Try pricing decent cruising sailboats/trawlers about 36' and figure out if you can handle that up. Slip fees aren't free though the farther you get from California, the cheaper they become. Note that Hawii doesn't have many anchorages and few open slips. Figure taxes, sails, bottom paint, diesel engine maintenance and better electronics.

The other thing is going whilst you're able. Living on board and sailing blue water isn't easy. I feel it takes two people, though Slocum proved otherwise. It takes good health for both of you. If you're healthy now, get going. It takes practice, and then after you leave, you'll learn a lot more.

Remember it's worth it. Here's Out Journey moored off the beach in Tahiti.

49_Papeete_Beach.sized.jpg

Yeah, it's worth it. Good luck.

By the way, it's cheaper to fly there find a small room and spend a couple of months there. Also easier.

Boris
 
hello tuberider,
in your post you mention you have a limited income and you would rather not brake the bank. we all have boating dreams but the reality is our dreams can only be realized to the extent of our budget. the sport of boating takes place in a very hazardous environment, whether sail or power. prior to the purchase of my c-dory i had a boat that averaged 1.9 gallons of fuel per mile. average monthly dockage rates where $350. plus $35. for insurance, $100. for maintenance and $1250 for debt service, and $400 for monthly fuel. adds up quick.
so, the c-dory isn't that bad but bad is relative to one's budget. if you do the math and be brutally honest, the results should be apparent as to a whether you have a go or no go.
i've recently looked at several larger boats to replace my c-dory. when i do the math, i'm not willing to pay the 500 to 600 monthly dockage/fuel/maintenance/insurance fees, over and beyond my little c-dory's expenses. once you have a very cost effective boat it's hard giving it up for more space/comfort, regardless of budget.
good luck and let us know the outcome.
pat
 
Interesting question, I have owned many boats both power and sail. I absolutely guarantee that if you own a boat you will need to spend money for many things, there is no free lunch. In my experience I found that even with a fifty four foot powerboat the fuel was the smallest of my expenses. I found that when I had comparable power and sail boats in terms of size the costs were comparable. With a sail boat you put the money into sails and rigging where in the power boat the same money goes into fuel. I hope that is a help.
 
Asking about a bigger sailboat here might be like getting on a cruising sailboat forum and asking about our size powercruisers... there may be some that have done it, but the perspective is certainly different. Realistically, you could probably sell your C-Dory and buy an older sailboat with a greater LOA. Dock/slip fees will run more, due to the extra length... but you may find that you spend more time at anchor. So, the cost will depend on your preferences.

The big differences to me are the way one "lives" onboard. In a sailboat, you are generally at a (somewhat) exposed helm. Certainly, a dodger and bimini can make a difference, but if it is cold and rainy, you are going to be out in it more than when running a C-Dory. With longer length, you will probably have a forward or aft berth, a salon, galley, and head... more square footage. But, sailboats are generally "down" for the living; not the view that we have from the cabin/windows of a C-Dory. So, more room, but more "cave-like." Assuming a diesel, your mpg at hull speed will be close to what you now get... but, no opportunity to run at higher than hull speed with the typical displacement hull. If you are able to sail, lots of folks feel that is "free power." Price out a set of sails and amortize that over the hours/days/months you will be sailing. What the sails do give you is the ability to travel long distances without (as much) concern for fuel range... assuming you have the time. Sails will need some occasional repair; and there is the work of setting and adjusting. But, when it's all "right", it's really right.

There are times that I miss sailing, but I really like the trailerability and adaptability of the C-Dory. But, you aren't going to point the C-Dory west from California and keep going... well, you could, but at some not-so-distant point, you are going to run out of fuel. :wink:

Might be time to walk some docks. Visit with folks on boats to see how they are using them. See what your available $$ will buy in a bigger boat.

If you are traveling solo, there are reasonable limits in size for singlehanding... and that situation of "who's on watch when you're asleep?" If you would be cruising as a couple, make darn sure you are both ready for that step. Where do you want to go? How long?

So, some interesting considerations. Dreams are important, as is the necessity of being realistic. Years ago, when I left a secure job to strike out on my own, another employee gave me a small plaque that read, "A man's reach should exceed his grasp." Good luck with your decisions, and keep us posted.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
The costs depend on your life style. If you are actively cruising they can be minimal because you will be anchoring out most of the time. Sail has the advantages of long range, (although many sailors put plenty of engine hours on their boats)--for 41,000 miles, Calif to Maine, to Florida, to Med, Baltic, Canaries, Caribbean and to Calif we ran the engine about 4,000 hours--but ocean crossings and even med crossing was under sail 100%.
Coming up the West Coast is mostly power--down is usually sail, but one time we went Long beach to La Paz--zero wind.

Roger's estimates are very valid. Sail boats have the cost of sails, and with care you can get 50,000miles out of a set. Rigging needs to be replaced at about 10 years etc. But systems have to be maintained. For example water pumps, generators windings, windlass motors, etc. These are intangiables. 10% of the cost of the boat is close to average.

However finding a good boat is a real problem. We just came back from S. Florida looking at over 60 boats and only found one which was suitable from my mini survey standpoint (deck rot, delamination, water intrusion etc were the main problems we saw in used trawlers). Sail boats have some slightly different problems. Get a very good Marine surveyor to look at what ever boat you buy., I would also suggest a buyer's broker, who is good. We have been working with a really great one for Florida. They are also hard to come by.

In the mid 80's our expenses were $1000 a month, for our living costs and boat maintance. This was a 62 foot lOA sailboat, but everything was new when we started, so the repairs were minimal, and we did all of our own work. Today, I would say that you can cruise for $2000 a month, if you are very careful about using marinas, and where you might eat out etc. But again, it depends on the condition of the boat when you start.

Going West from Calif. is a bit of a leap, and I would suggest that you spend at least a year cruising the Calif. coast (or where ever) before you leap off. This allows you to find problems with the boat, as well as hone your skills. It will also allow you to see if you are really suited for this life. There are lots of sail boats in remote down wind places for sale cheap--shattered dreams. We tracked two dozen boats in 1982 which had the same goals we had--basically a prolonged voyage, with specific destination leaving the West Coast. Several of these were lost in the Cabo Storm of Dec 1982. There were 4 divorces, 3 boats sank--in other places, and all of the crew containued sailing--but one took 15 years to complete the circumnavigation. The majority of the boats gave up in about one to 2 years and sold the boat where it was--at a loss.

If you are looking at a power boat, there are only a few trawlers capable of going West, and these are probably not limited budget boats--consider Nordhavn, Kadey Krogen, Defever Long Range Cruisers, Willards etc---boats built for offshore use, and long range.

I would be happy to answer specific questions. i consider one of the best long distance cruising boats to be the Cal 46, and these are available for $50,000 on up to the low $100,000, if well restored. These have enough power to go over 1500 miles under power (some over 3000 miles) --will power at 8 knots, 6 knots a gallon an hour, and sail at 8 knots in a stiff breeze on a reach. Many have circumnavigated or at least crossed several oceans. But they are close to 40 years old now and many require extensive upgrades. The pilot house type of sail boat is far better suited to long voyages, especially in higher lattitudes.
 
Thank you for the responses.

I say go west to mean go away surfing and not return until I am done. Hawaii would be nothing more than a pit stop if I even went there. I just have no clue about cruising costs on an extended voyage. Maybe an option would be to charter surfing trips once I got to a remote wave rich area.

I think I can get moorage here for around $3000 a year. Some of the maintenance chores would be mine to minimize expenses but it still costs to haul out and have the vessel parked on the tarmac for maintenance.

The primary purpose of the vessel is to go away. I have not had any significant time off since a 30 day leave in the military. My accounting practice is seasonal but even during the off season I feel I cannot get away for more than 10 days. So I am maybe 10 years from retirement and I am trying to figure out a way to disappear for 6 months or so and then come back and do my task for the busy season then go away again. If I wait till retirement I may have "missed the boat".

I have a friend with a 50 footer and he is trying to prep his vessel for an extended trip south. Maybe investing and working with him on his vessel would be a solution. I don't know if he wants to go west and there may be the problem. At least this would give me a sailing partner who like me has some water time. He was a coxswain on navy vessel (small vessel) and I have the cg coxswain title. He has a lot of sailing experience also. And maybe more important buying in with him may cut the cost in 1/2.

I have been watching the used vessel market and it seems like there are some good deals available. I listen and Dr Bob says that out of 50 or so boats he may have found one. I don't have Dr Bob's expertise and a survey would be considered before I buy.

I appreciate your input. Maybe after tax season, when the bank account is full again, I won't be able to resist the good deal but when I am knowledgeable I might make the right choice. I will keep working on it. I don't think I am ready to trade off the cdory as it is perfect for my local boating needs.
 
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