Considering a C-Dory

B

busterlueck

New member
This is my first time on the site. I am looking into C-dory. I like the 22 and 25. I like the 25 b/c it has the separate head instead of the toilet in the v-berth. I would like to hear from 22 owners. Do you miss not having the separate head?

Also. There is only 1 dealer near me and they dont have ANY new boats. If there is someone in the Gulf Breeze/Pensacola/Panama City/Mobile area that has a 22 or 25 that I can come take a look at, i'll buy you a beer.

Thanks
 
I live in Pensacola (upper Perdido Bay) and have a Tom Cat 255 (for sale). I am happy to show it to you. It is a very similar layout to the 25.
We had a 22 and then a 25 on the West Coast as second boats. The 22 was a bit cramped getting into the bunk. Cutting out the bulkhead may help this. The head was a minor issue, and in some ways I prefer porti potties over marine heads.

I sent you a PM with my phone #.
 
Having started with a 22 and then moved up to a 25 here are the differences I have noted:

a. The 25 is heavy, really heavy compared to the 22.
b. The 25 burns a lot more gas but with 120 gallons I can go further.
c. The 25 is much more complicated (marine toilet, holding tank, hot water tank, macerator pump, shower, bilge pumps, shower drain, electric water pump, ac breaker panel, refrigerator)
d. The 25 is much more comfortable and stable in the water and it just wants to go faster.

Do I miss my 22, you bet. Would I give up the 25, the simple answer is no. So what I have done is try to make the 25 more like the 22 by removing the hot water tank and marine toilet and installing a porta potti. The refrigerator doesn't work (failed control board) but makes a nice beverage storage container. Plus the 25 appeals to my electronics side as it has more space to work with. It was much easier to install a second VHF, autopilot and tablet PC for Coastal Explorer along with a Raymarine C-80.
 
Hi,

Welcome aboard!

You may be thinking you like the 22 and 25 but that's like saying you like a Ford Ranger and an F250. Both good trucks but each entirely different.

The CD25 is roughly twice the size of the CD22 volume-wide. It weighs about double (you'll tow about 4,000 to 4,500 pounds with the CD22 and about 8,000 to 8,500 with the CD25). It uses about twice the fuel and new it cost not quite twice what the CD22 did.

I suggest if you really don't know which way to go that you spend some time really thinking about how and where you'll use the boat.

No one can really answer the question for you regarding the head (toilet). That's a 100% personal assessment about what you're comfortable with. Considering that head compartment in the CD25 takes up a fair amount in the cabin 100% of the time and (new) it cost about $40,000 to get a lot of folks decided that working out the logistics of using a portable toilet would be just fine...many didn't and paid the price of admittance (usually much to their satisfaction). Each scenario works just fine for the right individual, the trick is figuring out what works for you and your guests and how much you're willing to spend to get what you think is "the" answer.

Personally I wouldn't buy a boat based only on the head but that's just me. If you like the majority of things better on the CD25, can afford it, and can tow it (if that's part of the plan) and it happens to come with an enclosed head so be it. I do know folks that say they've decided based on the enclosed head (or not) but really there has to be more to it than that and they must have liked the whole package overall to spend the extra money.

All the best,

Les
 
The only thing I hated about my 22 was the port a potty. I don't mind the type of toilet, it was the location and the lack of privacy. I did not like having to move the damn thing every time I wanted to use it. I could not use it while it was in the v berth. There is just not enough head room. I'm 6ft and my head would rub. I hated having to move it to the back deck at night to use or use in the cabin after running everyone out of the cabin and I really hated having to be in a cabin while some one else used it.

So to some it maybe a "minor inconvenience" but it made me not want to use the boat half the time. Now keep in mind my wife Susan is convinced that if you don't drink 2 gallons of water a day you will die even thought she has a bladder the size of a tea cup, your mileage may very.

Long store short is I love my 27 with a head closet. Now I don't care if its a holding tank or a porta potty or a natures heads, l like that I have a door to close and can use it anytime I like with out having to stop the boat or rearrange the cabin. Well worth it in my humble opinion.
 
Ah, that Les cuts to the chase. I've heard a lot of people say that the enclosed head is the difference between the 25 and the 22... so much more. The elbow room in the 25 is quite generous compared to the 22. My wife and I can pass each other in the aisle. If she is working at the galley, I can get around her. Think that doesn't make much difference? Try spending extended time on it. The v-berth is over a foot wider. More storage. Shelves in the v-berth. More room at the dinette. The fridge (one can be added to a 22) means there's no "hunt for ice. More room in the cockpit. 100 gallons of fuel vs 38, but the heavier 25 uses more fuel. The "real estate" on the bow is much more - easier for anchor handling or tying to a mooring. Oh, and there's an enclosed head; ours has the Sealand toilet which uses fresh water. And a shower. With hot water. Pressure water. Room for a microwave. An electrical system (30 amp). The boat feels more stable underway and at anchor.

Ours weighed in at 8700 pounds on the trailer, with a light fuel load, full water, and cruising equipped, when we checked it on a certified scale. We tow with a diesel pickup.

I have no doubt that we would not do the extended cruising if we had a 22, but it certainly works well for others. It's not a matter of what you can do without, but rather where your comfort level is... if you and your wife don't feel like you are being deprived of amenities, you will spend more time on the boat.

I was absolutely convinced we wanted a 22 before we ever saw both boats side by side. When we saw the boats at the Seattle Boat Show, we went back and forth. Well, I went back and forth. The Blonde said, "We want this one (the 25)," and she was right. It is the right boat for the way we use it.

While we are together on the boat almost all the time, I can singlehand launch and retrieve... anchor and dock... go to the fuel dock. When we are home, I do take the boat out by myself quite a bit. When we put the boat in together, she usually handles lines while I back the boat in. When we retrieve, she usually backs the trailer in while I drive the boat onto the trailer. It's much faster when we work together. I don't see that any of that would be easier if the boat were smaller.

Three feet doesn't sound like much, but the increase of volume (usable space) in the cabin is dramatic. There's an additional foot of beam. I am not trying to convince anyone one way or the other... we looked at all of the above when making our choice, and it fits us. Bill and El have taken 5 people on extended cruises on their 22 and wouldn't have it any other way. I can't imagine all that time with 5 people on any small boat, but we consider ours a 2 person cruiser, that can seat or feed four on occasion.

Good luck with your decisions. This comes up frequently here, and most people will defend their buying decision. It all comes down to how you will use the boat, how much personal space you require, and what your budget will allow. The porta-potty vs an installed toilet is really much less of an issue for us; we've had both on previous boats, and they both work just fine. If an enclosed head is a decision-maker for you, then your choice is simple.

One other perspective: would you stay in a motel that didn't have a shower? Does your home have a separate bathroom? I think it IS an important factor, but for us, it wasn't the main factor in choosing the 25.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
We like the non complexity of the 22 after selling our 32 Sundowner Tug. When we first bought the Tug, I loved all the systems and complexity - but after awhile it took away from the boating. We bought the 22 the day that we sold the Tug, so we had a fresh perspective to keep things simple. Thankfully we did that because over time you forget.

I'm sure we would love the 25, but the only time we would like the 25 more than the 22 is when it is raining out and your stuck in a marina - just a bit more volume.

Either way I'm sure you'll love it.

As far as the head, it would be nice to have a full head - but we also like to dump the porta-potti at any restroom.
 
starcrafttom":3lob0h0j said:
Now keep in mind my wife Susan is convinced that if you don't drink 2 gallons of water a day you will die even thought she has a bladder the size of a tea cup, your mileage may very.
Click to expand...

My wife’s bladder, I am convinced, can hold the quantity of a yardarm of beer, and she can hold it longer than I every time. We don’t need a head or porta potti.
 
You will not go wrong with a C-Dory of either size. Our 22 was the smallest cruising boat we ever owned. I think we had more fun with it than any of our other boats.

The potty question is often raised. We found that port a pottys were trouble free and easy to find a place to dump. If you trailer you can just empty it into your sewer clean loy at home. We moved our potty to the after end of the cabin at night and slid it between the V-Berth during the day. We are both small people and did not have a head room problem. Passing in the isle was not a problem for us.

Read El and Bill's web site Halcyon Days. They live full time on their 22 footer for most of the year. My wife and I have cruised for several months on the 22 with out a problem.

Good luck

Fred, Pat and Mr Grey (the cat)
 
For day use the current porta potty or even a bottle is just fine. For longer cruises with grandkids etc. I may try something like this:

http://www.bivouacbuddy.com/

Looks like it can work for both a shower and porta potty enclosure. I am sure I can find a way to rig it from the top of the cabin.

Ron
 
"Go small. Go simple. Go now." - so say the Pardees, two long-distance live-aboard sailors. We agree, and have lived more than ten years and 40,000 miles on a 20-foot sailboat and 22-foot C-dory.

We now live aboard our 22-foot Halcyon most of the year (just back from a nice cruise up the British Columbia coast) and writing this from an an anchorage in the San Juan Islands.

The joy of easy trailering, launching, cruising, anchoring is marvelous. "The smallest boats are used the most and go the farthest," said an experienced marina operator to us.

If you are big folks and need the space, you need more boat than smaller folks for headroom comfort. We MUCH prefer a portapotti to an "always need fixing" marine head. We are backpackers (hiked the Appalachian Trail Georgia to Maine) and know what is a necessity from a "luxury," (when you carry your needs on your back for over 2,000 miles).

That said, we know that many need more of civilization's comforts so trade down to a larger boat. Go with what you require for your needs for the boat. Only use for afternoons of fishing? Don't have the desire to cruise many different places so won't trailer much? Not concerned about greater gas consumption?

Every boat (like every home) has compromises- know how you want to use your boat and consider the advantages or disadvantages of increased size
and weight - then spend a little time around those choices - each of uses different and we have our opinions based on our experiences and levels of tolerant comfort. We love our 22 - give us a 25 or larger and we'd sell it to trade up to a 22 and the ease of a small and simple craft.
 
Now your next question should be twins or single :lol:
These are really cool boats. Everyone knows the old saying that a boat owners happiest days are the day he buys and the day he sells. I've got to say I've been happy everyday I've been on the boat. I'm sure the C-brat site and the people here have had a lot to do with that.
Welcome to C-brats and good luck on your search for the right boat.
 
on the handling of a small and simple craft. I really don't think there is enough of a difference between the handling and use of a 22 and a 25 or even my 27. They are all small and simple craft. driving a 22 is no different then a 25 or even my boat. It may take a bigger truck to tow a 25 but its just as easy to launch, retrieve and tow as a 22.

Both are out boards with the same systems. both have water tanks and fuel tanks and electronic. The 25 has a hot water heater but big whoop. I mean really we are not talking about a 44ft Atlantic, my fathers boat. I am not sure how to turn that sucker on.


These are all small boats and very easy to use and maintain.
 
rogerbum - the original owner of my boat - created this:
I had a custom canvas enclosure made for the cockpit that allows me to leave the porta-potty external to the cabin. It snaps to the cross bar of the camper enclosure and also zips to the starboard side at the top. Snaps hold it to the bulk head on the starboard side and velcro provides an easy opening door towards the port side. It has served us well.
Click to expand...
BoatWithExternalHeadCanvas.jpg
I have never used it but it's good to know it's there if needed. Also, Roger added some screening over the stb aft window to increase privacy while still allowing enough light into the compartment.
 
As lengthy as some of my posts are I think sometimes (after the fact) that I should elaborate more (believe it or not). :)

My only real point is that for most folks the head compartment (or lack thereof) won't be "THE" primary factor in the choice between the C-Dory 22 and C-Dory 25. If it is, it is, but in my experience there are always other factors as well...availability of the extra funds for the CD25 being one of them. Many folks just can't afford the extra $30K to $40K (based on new prices) whether they like the head and extra elbow room or not.

The other thing I routinely run across is that if the potential buyer has not seen a CD22 and a CD25 side by side they're in for a shock when they do. In spite of startcrafttom's willingness and comfort to run anything :) I've had many folks get a bit wide eyed when after looking at a CD22 we walked back to look at a CD25. It takes a robust tow vehicle to handle the CD25 while the CD22 is comfortable behind a large V-6 and up.

It's not the size that changes things per se but in my experience the CD25 is a more complex boat than a CD22 (though not complex when compared to other boats). In the CD25 there's plumbing for the toilet, plumbing for the shower and a shower drain with collection box, plumbing and wiring for the water heater, there's a refrigerator, there's a macerator, and there's a shore power system. Some of which is not on a CD22 and most of which is not on most CD22's. It isn't fair to say that maintaining a CD25 is as easy as maintaining a CD22; there's just more time and expense involved, and there's more boat to wash and wax as well. That doesn't mean that's a bad thing, it's usually not onerous maintenance and some folks like that aspect of owning a boat (it's a hobby too).

I understand the motivation for the questions presented, I've been involved with them for years and years. It's just very difficult for a diverse group of folks with many different view points to articulate just what someone else might like about a particular boat (or boats). Each of us has reasons we've chosen what we have and somehow we justified (at least in our minds) why we went that way.

I also know that when someone asks about a CD22 and a CD25 at the same time that there's a very high probability that the questioner has not seen both boats in person. Usually if they have the questions have already been answered for them and they know from in-person viewing what will fit their needs (and pocketbook) the best.

Les
 
Les,

As always, very concise, wise, articulate, practical, and diplomatically phrased advice.

Ever think of running for president? But then again, those qualities haven't been in favor in DC for quite some time! (Please! No one take offense at this!)

Regards,

Nick
"Valkyrie"
 
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