communication differences between aviation and marine

J

johnbenj

New member
I'm sure there are other airplane pilots on C-Brats so i am curious to get some thoughts and opinion about the differences in radio communications of pilots and captains. I became a pilot long before becoming a boater and i have always been amazed at the differences. Radio communications for boaters just seem so inefficient and without much standards. It appears to the even the professionals such the Coast Guard don't have standard terminology for communication with vessel captains. Most of the question i can guess that the answer is about freedom and money (e.g., don't force boaters to learn a lexicon when all they want to do is enjoy their boating which already costs too much.)

I haven't listened to the frequencies of professional marine captains, such as the ferries in puget sound, so maybe i haven't heard the good stuff, yet.

Why do we have to repeat ourselves 3-times when hailing someone else on a boating channel? Curious to know what others think.
 
Pilots have more rigid training standards. Realistically none for boaters.

The CG protocol calls for 3x call. Very crowded frequencies.

Most boaters have no idea of how to properly use a radio.

Pilots compare to ham operators using ARES or other emergency protocol.
 
I have a commercial pilots license and a Master License (100 Ton). Yep, a world of difference in how the two communicate. Some of it is the fact that anyone can buy and use a marine VHF... and most don't follow the protocol set by aviation standards. You'll find a LOT of boaters use the VHF like it is a CB radio ("Ya got your ears on?" :disgust )

Pilots are taught: use their name (who you are calling), then your name, then state your business as briefly as possible. No need to repeat the call sign 3 times, because in aviation you are taught to listen for your call sign. Boaters often have the VHF radio as part of "the background."

Most professional mariners use proper radio protocol. Of course, that depends on your locale - get on the radio along the Gulf Coast to talk to tug captains, and you are back to the CB lingo again. :roll: And in spite of the radio usage, those guys are real professionals.

Pick up a Chapman's and you will find there IS info on how to properly use the VHF radio, so there is protocol... the big difference is in education and training: in many states, you can drive a boat with no training, no testing, no standards. Some states have minimal knowledge tests you can take online to get a state boaters card (I wouldn't call it a license). I have not seen any of those that have full instruction on proper radio usage.

If you were to get a captains license, you may learn the proper procedures, then get out on the water with a BUNCH of people who do not use those procedures, and it all goes out the window. Use improper radio procedures in an aircraft, and ATC/FAA will call you on it.

If there was testing (including written, oral, and practical) for boating like there is in aviation, the odds are pretty good you would hear proper procedures. That is not likely to happen, because many people feel it is their God-given right to get in a boat... with no training... and crack open a beer while they push the throttle WFO. Try that in an airplane. :roll:

Some question the efficacy of a captains license, since you don't have to demonstrate proficiency on the water. To get a job as a captain, the business and the insurance company will require that you show proficiency. I had to pass a written, oral, and practical on-the-water test for the Department of Interior for one job. That is rare.

So, going into this with previous pilot training will give you a definite advantage... not to mention, you will sound more professional on the radio. Not much help, though, if boaters in your area don't have or use a VHF radio.

Keep using proper protocol. :thup
 
I don't know what the standards are in US waters, but in Canada you need to have a Restrictive Operating Certificate (Maritime) before you can even legally turn on a VHF radio in Canada. My wife and I took the training, studied hard and then wrote a written exam, followed by an oral exam. Proper terminology, protocols for messages and correct and brief messages were emphasized. Now, I imagine that many boaters throw these procedures out the window once they pass the exam, but at least at some point in their lives they did study to pass the exam.
 
First off, not a pilot. But I do use a radio, daily. I agree with Jim. Recreational boaters have zero respect for brevity and most don't take the time to learn the rules. In my line of work, those that "talk too much" (on the radio) get dealt with....lives depend on it.
 
If you are sailing inland waters (Puget Sound), there isn't much reason to use the radio. I keep mine on in case someone (usually a board paddler) needs assistance. Marinas, bridges - just easer to use the cell phone. Don't communicate with ferries and large ships - they don't want to be bothered by us little folk. If you need help, that is another matter - ferries do much of the rescuing, that would be a good reason to use the radio.
 
RobLL, I have to disagree on the need for a radio, or the use.

I boat in much of the same area and the radio is helpful. You don't have to be talking on it for that to happen. Listening on the appropriate Vessel Traffic channel will let you know that a Victoria Clipper will be coming up on you at 30 knotsm or that the ferry will be departing Whidbey terminal in a couple of minutes, or that cruise ship will be cutting the corner at Point Wilson as it passes a slow tug with a fuel barge at the marker.

Listening to the VTS channel has helped me with the geography of the area toom because they will use landmarks for oints of reference. Good stuff to know.

VTS Vessel Traffic Service or in our area "Seattle Traffic" are the professional equivalent to Air Traffic Control. And yes, sometimes they talk too fast, and the do not calk a vessel name 3 times, but they are used to it and the professional captains are too.

I agree with Jim, Mark, Bob and you (the OP), that most recreational users are sloppy. I was at Campbell River, BC, a few days ago, and the whole marina staff were talking an annual VHF radio class, including a test. And they all sounded very professional on the radio. (I admit to not using "Over" when I should, but do try to keep to the other standards.)

FYI for anyone interested, BoatUS has an online VHF class that is interactive and fairly realistic. It is wirth a look.

"Over"

Harvey
SleepyC :moon7
 
Actually I always have my radio on, usually channel 16. I do have a hearing disability - usually takes hearing the message the second or third time before I understand it.
 
As a retired airline pilot and avid boater, I agree with everything being said. However the two environments are different. That being said, there are some marine frequencies that deserve a little more professionalism than others. I also disagree with the commercial guys not wanting to talk to "us little guys". There are certain rivers and locations where they are just as appreciative to communicate with us as each other. I have no problem hailing a tug to see which side he prefers a pass on in a narrow channel, or to share intentions. Treat them with respect and many will return that respect. They know their limitations but they also know they share the water with recreationalists. When you call bridge or lock tenders on the phone, no one else can hear your conversation. If you are just getting a lift or operational information, it's many times appropriate for others nearby to hear that information as well also, rather than having to make another call via radio to get it. The VHF radio is a useful tool. Don't be afraid to use it, but keep it appropriate. Colby
 
A little off topic, but interesting. We boated on Lake Champlain for 40 years. The most difficult transmissions to understand originated with the Burlington Coast Guard station. When they made a broadcast it seemed that they thought they had about 7 seconds to get it all in.
For instance if they were giving coordinates of a dangerous floating object, boat in distress etc, there was no way to write down this info without requesting them to say again.
At one point I wrote to the station commander about this situation to no avail.
Ron
 
The Green Bay USCG is just as bad with their routine transmissions... It's like a race to see how fast they can make their transmission....
 
Many times the CG radio ops are just young kids. They don't really understand the importance of how to relay information. I have heard a few old timers in the CG who were superb.
 
I boat and the rest of the family fly. I get to fly with them. To me here is the basis for the differents in standards for private pilots and private boaters in training and licensing If anything bad happen in a plane you fall out of the sky on to some one else. If something bad happens on a boat you sit in the water or maybe swim. In 99% 0f the causes of bad things on boats only the boat and those aboard are effected. Last month a plane lost engine on take off in Everett, It landed in a street after hitting a few cars and traffic lights. Last weekend a boat leaving Everett lost a engine and no one noticed. Lets try not comparing apples and hamburgers.
 
Here's a quote for you, Tom...

"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree
than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect."

Pilots are taught to do these things, in this order:
Aviate
Navigate
Communicate

That said, proper communication IS something you have to learn to get your private pilots license. If you have been number 12 for landing, in solid IFR conditions, while in a descending holding pattern, you truly appreciate those learned skills. ATC is providing separation.

Unless you are in a vessel in a controlled traffic lane, you are pretty much on your own with your boat, even in low visibility conditions. It is up to you to use sound signals and make vessel position reports, while using your radar for separation. Nice to know proper VHF radio procedures.

When flying, you can rightfully assume others in the air will know and use proper radio procedures. No such assumption when on the water. (where most boaters are "self taught") :shock:
 
westward":6b7jfkea said:
What is the VHF vessel control channel for the San Juan Islands? Anyone know? I've heard 5A and 14, not sure which is better.
Click to expand...

Typical calling locations:
⇒
Channel 14
Hood Canal, Shilshole/Seattle, Bremerton,
Bainbridge, Tacoma, Olympia-waters south of Nodule and Possession on
Whidbey Island.
⇒
Channel 5A
Everett, Port Townsend, LaConner, Anacortes,
Bellingham, San Juan ―Archipelago, Port Angeles, Neah Bay, Port
San Juan, B.C.
Seattle Traffic monitors vessel traffic in Canadian
waters in the Strait of Juan de Fuca! Victoria Traffic monitors all
traffic in Haro Strait and the Victoria area, and waters north of
Patos Island on channel 11.
Click to expand...

http://www.uscg.mil/d13/psvts/docs/RecBoat_Pamplet_2013.pdf

I have this downloaded on our laptop. I will probably print it out and laminate it at work too,as a lo-tech reference. :wink:
 
Here in Alaska the Coast Guard messages are usually spoken by young girls in "valley girl" language at 100 words per second, totally not understandable.

Also............we have Russian commercial fishermen on the VHF 16 using it like a CB. Any comment to them comes back as a real clear "F" bomb. They speak 1/2 Russian and 1/2 poor English, almost understandable.
They are only on the water for several months during fishing season.
 
RobLL":nfjblhxk said:
Actually I always have my radio on, usually channel 16. I do have a hearing disability - usually takes hearing the message the second or third time before I understand it.
Click to expand...

This is where the ICOM M-506 VHF comes in handy -- Last call 2 minute recording feature, and I use it on 16 frequently. It doesn't slow down the "100 word per second" verbiage, but I can listen to it as many times as it takes.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_070.thumb.jpg
 
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