I have been looking at the c dory at the Annapolis boat show and the bayliner 242 or 2452. I was wondering what would be some of the important differences between the two, and if anyone ever had a bayliner and a cdory that they could compare. There seem to be a ton of used bayliners out there at cheaper prices than the cdory. I am trying to get the most boat for the money. Hope to buy one summer of 07. Any comments are welcomed. Thanks.
Cdory compared to Bayliner 2452
- Thread starter mccml
- Start date
I am not trying to be a smart aleck here, not at all. But your post contains your answer.
I'll leave the technical comparisons to those more knowledgeable, and only point out that the Bayliner will lose a greater percentage of its value as you tow it away from the dealer than the C-Dory will lose in years of use.
I'll leave the technical comparisons to those more knowledgeable, and only point out that the Bayliner will lose a greater percentage of its value as you tow it away from the dealer than the C-Dory will lose in years of use.
http://www.iboats.com/boats/marine--1/b ... 69599.html
That's a 2452 -- lot of boat for the money in terms of stuff on it and dollars per length. I note the owner crying to get it sold . . .
Most boat for the money and most boat I'll use, or boat I'll get the most out of for the way I want to boat are different questions. Think about those things before the purchase of any boat.
That's a 2452 -- lot of boat for the money in terms of stuff on it and dollars per length. I note the owner crying to get it sold . . .
Most boat for the money and most boat I'll use, or boat I'll get the most out of for the way I want to boat are different questions. Think about those things before the purchase of any boat.
mikeporterinmd
New member
Have you ever owned a boat before? If you have not, it is difficult
perhaps, to understand the differences.
Or is this just a troll? If you are seriously trying to understand
why one over the other, describe what you intend to do with a
boat, and where.
Mike
perhaps, to understand the differences.
Or is this just a troll? If you are seriously trying to understand
why one over the other, describe what you intend to do with a
boat, and where.
Mike
I am looking for a trailerable boat that my wife and I can use on many different waterways to go cruising on as economically as possible. I am a "poor" school teacher that loves kayaking, and the ocean environment. I am retiring in 5 years and would like to start cruising without having to sell my house yet. I am interested in a used cdory 25. I have been reading all the stories on this site and like the idea of being able to take the boat to places like Alaska or to the Bahamas.
I don't know if you are looking at the C Dory 22 or 25 or Tom Cat 255--lots of difference in costs and availability.
The Bayliner is a bargin boat--I have owned a Bayliner in the late 70's as a weekend boat when I was building a 38 foot sailboat. But Bayliners depreciate substantially--because of materials used and how they age.
A 20 year old C Dory is in as good shape as when new if taken care of. Many C Dories sell years later for the same amount they cost when new.
The resale of C Dories is better than Bayliners.
The Bayliner 24XX has an enclosed head, and a helm station above the main cabin. It is a good bargin boat. When I was looking at express cruisers I looked at the Bayliners--several years old--unsold new boats had detiorrated sitting on the lot (Dash was faded, upholustry faded and did not look good). The Bayliner has an I/O engine--in my opinion these are harder to maintain than an outboard. Also you can run an outboard in shallow water, where as the I/O should not be run in the "up" position--so you can take an outboard in shoaler water.
The C Dory is more utilitarian; the interior can basically be hosed out and washed clean. You cannot do this with a Bayliner. If you go with the less expensive 22, it will have a porti potty, instead of an enclosed head--the 25 will have the head--and more storage room. The C Dory will have a longer range and the fuel costs will be significantly less. I had a Rinker Fiesta V 270 with a 300 HP I/O for several years. I got 1.5 to 1.6 miles a gallon. The C Dory 22 gets 3 to 5 miles a gallon. The tom Cat 255 gets 2 to 2.4 miles a gallon. The C Dory is a far more seaworthy boat than the Bayliner, and can run at semidisplacement speeds--ie from 8 to 18 knots--where as the Bayliner does not run all that well at 8, and does not run well until about 18 knots. So in heavy weather, you have more difficulty with the seas. The C Dory is a boat which needs to be understood--it is more likely to be purchased by ex sailors or trawler owners than a Bayliner.
Hope this helps--try a ride in both.
The Bayliner is a bargin boat--I have owned a Bayliner in the late 70's as a weekend boat when I was building a 38 foot sailboat. But Bayliners depreciate substantially--because of materials used and how they age.
A 20 year old C Dory is in as good shape as when new if taken care of. Many C Dories sell years later for the same amount they cost when new.
The resale of C Dories is better than Bayliners.
The Bayliner 24XX has an enclosed head, and a helm station above the main cabin. It is a good bargin boat. When I was looking at express cruisers I looked at the Bayliners--several years old--unsold new boats had detiorrated sitting on the lot (Dash was faded, upholustry faded and did not look good). The Bayliner has an I/O engine--in my opinion these are harder to maintain than an outboard. Also you can run an outboard in shallow water, where as the I/O should not be run in the "up" position--so you can take an outboard in shoaler water.
The C Dory is more utilitarian; the interior can basically be hosed out and washed clean. You cannot do this with a Bayliner. If you go with the less expensive 22, it will have a porti potty, instead of an enclosed head--the 25 will have the head--and more storage room. The C Dory will have a longer range and the fuel costs will be significantly less. I had a Rinker Fiesta V 270 with a 300 HP I/O for several years. I got 1.5 to 1.6 miles a gallon. The C Dory 22 gets 3 to 5 miles a gallon. The tom Cat 255 gets 2 to 2.4 miles a gallon. The C Dory is a far more seaworthy boat than the Bayliner, and can run at semidisplacement speeds--ie from 8 to 18 knots--where as the Bayliner does not run all that well at 8, and does not run well until about 18 knots. So in heavy weather, you have more difficulty with the seas. The C Dory is a boat which needs to be understood--it is more likely to be purchased by ex sailors or trawler owners than a Bayliner.
Hope this helps--try a ride in both.
You said you wanted to travel to many different bodies of water. The 22 foot C-Dory can be mounted on a single axel trailer. Ours weights only 4200 pounds with food for a week and fuel. We tow behind a Jeep Grand Cherokee. The dory launches and loads very nicely. Fuel costs on the road are kept low because of the lower weight. My guess is that the Bayliner would be over 6000 lbs on a trailer and require a large tow vech. Don't let the lack of things on the dory stop you - you nevar have a marine head clog at the worst possiable time. The simple pump water system works just fine. If you think the 22 foot dory may hold you back from cruising go to El and Bill's Halcyon Days web site from the C-Dory site. Good luck in your search-the Baltimore area dealer is very nice to work with.(Cutter Marine)
Fred and Pat Messerly-Red LIon, Pa.
Fred and Pat Messerly-Red LIon, Pa.
flapbreaker
New member
The bayliner is a Deep V hull design, the c-dory 22,25 have a steep entry "v" but is flat in the back. Neither is necessarily superior to the other but are two very important differences that will effect you depending on how you intend to use them. THe bayliner will go faster and require more fuel at any speed. The c-dory was built to be tough, cruise at a modest and comfortable speed and require less hoursepower/fuel to do it.
There are a lot of older bayliners out there for sale and their price can be very alluring. The trouble is sometimes the boat turns out to be the cheapest part. You can rack up a lot in unexpected expenses with these boats.
There are a lot of older bayliners out there for sale and their price can be very alluring. The trouble is sometimes the boat turns out to be the cheapest part. You can rack up a lot in unexpected expenses with these boats.
From you description of yourself, the boat in this line for you would be the CD-22. It is the most economical extended range cruiser of the bunch. Buy a Coleman or Ozark Trail outdoor shower kit and with or without the camper canvas (practically all of us have it), rig a hanger from the canvas frame and you'll have your "enclosed" head by simply putting the potti inside it if anyone is sensitive about that issue. If you're a camping kayaker, I assume it's not a big deal. The 22 costs a lot used, but the good thing is when you sell it, you probably won't lose much if anything either, so at least the cruising is largely a wash on expenses.
You can purchase the Bayliner cheap, but you'll also put much money into running an I/O -- horrific fuel costs and the outdrives are notoriously spendy, if you like to run far, you'll rebuild it often. Whatever money you put in the Bayliner will likely be a dead loss.
The CD is a minimalist's boat that you dress up to your needs. Some have lined the interiors and made them fairly plush -- you can do that if you choose. No two are alike a week after sold, since we all modify them to suit our needs.
Good luck with your search.
Probably the most important difference between a Bayliner and a C-Dory is you get is an extremely large support group that can help you justify just about any modification, addition, or reason to spend money on a boat for things other than repairs and maintenance.
When I bought my first large boat (bigger than a 14 foot fishing boat) 18 months ago, I didn't realize I was joining a cult. However, it's a fun cult. I can't ever recall seeing 12 Bayliners anchored in a remote bay in Prince William Sound after looking for watermelons.
From a kayak perspective, I've found the 22 to be a great platform for carrying a couple of single kayaks. It's easy to get in and out, and they are easy to load on the roof.
When I bought my first large boat (bigger than a 14 foot fishing boat) 18 months ago, I didn't realize I was joining a cult. However, it's a fun cult. I can't ever recall seeing 12 Bayliners anchored in a remote bay in Prince William Sound after looking for watermelons.
From a kayak perspective, I've found the 22 to be a great platform for carrying a couple of single kayaks. It's easy to get in and out, and they are easy to load on the roof.
Aside from the basic utilitarian layout and functionality of the C-Dory line, and all be able to see the same scenery and events, and be able to talk to each of the other passengers in the same cabin at the same eye level, (hard to do in a split level cockpit/cabin arrangement like most of the Bayliners) -- the most significant feature of the C-Dory to me is the mid to slow speeds it CAN perform and do it economically.
It means that you can come home, sometimes in very nasty seas, in a safer and more relaxed manner doing 10-18 knots (depending on conditions). I absolutely couldn't believe my first trip home in white cap conditions, which took nearly 3 hours, and how relaxed and energic I was when I jumped off the dock ready to put the boat on the trailer. Not so with previous Deep-V's I had owned (and in my younger years...), I was fighting to stay on a minimum speed plane, not too fast and not too slow as to fall off a plane--a delicate balance, lots of throttle jockying, concentration and energy, plus being thrown around pretty violently.
To me it's more a difference in the motoring characteristics of the various boats, not just the name. Oh, and by the way, the C-Dory as others have mentioned is built very, very solid.
It means that you can come home, sometimes in very nasty seas, in a safer and more relaxed manner doing 10-18 knots (depending on conditions). I absolutely couldn't believe my first trip home in white cap conditions, which took nearly 3 hours, and how relaxed and energic I was when I jumped off the dock ready to put the boat on the trailer. Not so with previous Deep-V's I had owned (and in my younger years...), I was fighting to stay on a minimum speed plane, not too fast and not too slow as to fall off a plane--a delicate balance, lots of throttle jockying, concentration and energy, plus being thrown around pretty violently.
To me it's more a difference in the motoring characteristics of the various boats, not just the name. Oh, and by the way, the C-Dory as others have mentioned is built very, very solid.
Another aspect to consider in your search for a proper cruising boat is the inherent safety of a particular design.
You might want to check out this article about "Bubble Boats", a category which includes the Bayliner cruisers.
http://marinesurvey.com/yacht/BubbleDecks.htm
Jim
You might want to check out this article about "Bubble Boats", a category which includes the Bayliner cruisers.
http://marinesurvey.com/yacht/BubbleDecks.htm
Jim
mccml
You actually have a lot of boat makes to choose from. There are a lot of other brands besides Bayliners and C-Dorys, some of which are reasonably priced and made, with their quality lying somewhere between Bayliners and C-Dorys.
The reason Bayliners have such a reputation for lack of lasting quality is the way they are made to appeal to the target buyers they're constructed for.
Bayliner's are designed and made to appeal to first time boat buyers.
The first time buyer looks at the various boat brands and notices the variation in price, and soon is shopping to get as much boat as possible for the money they have to spend.
The Bayliners are built as inexpensively and as large as possible for the money to look to be the best buy around. They sell great at the boat shows and out of the showroom.
Problem is, with the inexpensive construction, the boats age very fast, hence the low resale value. For instance, Zamak (chrome plated zinc alloy) fittings begin to pit and age, where as stainless steel would have lasted for decades.
When the Bayliner owner returns to buy a second boat, they're willing to pay more to get better quality, maybe even enough to get a high quality boat like the C-Dory.
Joe.
You actually have a lot of boat makes to choose from. There are a lot of other brands besides Bayliners and C-Dorys, some of which are reasonably priced and made, with their quality lying somewhere between Bayliners and C-Dorys.
The reason Bayliners have such a reputation for lack of lasting quality is the way they are made to appeal to the target buyers they're constructed for.
Bayliner's are designed and made to appeal to first time boat buyers.
The first time buyer looks at the various boat brands and notices the variation in price, and soon is shopping to get as much boat as possible for the money they have to spend.
The Bayliners are built as inexpensively and as large as possible for the money to look to be the best buy around. They sell great at the boat shows and out of the showroom.
Problem is, with the inexpensive construction, the boats age very fast, hence the low resale value. For instance, Zamak (chrome plated zinc alloy) fittings begin to pit and age, where as stainless steel would have lasted for decades.
When the Bayliner owner returns to buy a second boat, they're willing to pay more to get better quality, maybe even enough to get a high quality boat like the C-Dory.
Joe.
Welcome aboard mccml,
Most of us have been where you are, wanting to know if the price is justifiable; we want the most boat for the money. What it comes down to is buying the right boat for the mission. As a long time sailor, I've seen people buy the wrong boat for how they're going to use it, and wind up not enjoying their boating experience. Buying the boat for "the dream" is another problem... we've all seen these boats sitting in marinas - so big or expensive that the owners can't afford to run 'em or can't handle them with the available crew. Underbuying can be just as problematic - spending as little as possible just to get out on the water, and finding that the boat doesn't work for everything you want.
There are circumstance where the Bayliner is going to be the right boat - taking the family out to the lake, running "laps", pulling the kids on floats or skis, and then tying up to the dock to spend the night. Cheap to get into initially, and won't break the family budget when only used once a week or so during the summer.
What you will find with C-Dory owners are people who really USE their boats... hauling them all around and using them all seasons (OK, not where the water gets solid in the winter
). The boats are built to be comfortable and functional. From your description of intended usage, it sounds like this boat will be a better fit for you.
Like most quality products, the buy-in is a bit more, but the usage will be better, as will the return when/if you sell it. Your actual cost of ownership will be less with this type of vessel.
There are boats that have more "flash"... they show well at boat shows and at the dock ("Look, Ma, this one has a built-in coffee maker and a TV!"); but don't wear well on the water.
My wife and I were looking for a boat that would take us where we want to go, safely and comfortably. Function and ease of use were important points. Factory support, since we will be traveling a lot. Trailerable. Others have already stated that this great owners group was also a big part of the decision making. Our big angst wasn't just "should we buy this boat", but: do we make the lifestyle change from sail to power? We have been very happy with this choice and continue to be impressed with the performance of our C-Dory.
Good luck with your decisions.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
Most of us have been where you are, wanting to know if the price is justifiable; we want the most boat for the money. What it comes down to is buying the right boat for the mission. As a long time sailor, I've seen people buy the wrong boat for how they're going to use it, and wind up not enjoying their boating experience. Buying the boat for "the dream" is another problem... we've all seen these boats sitting in marinas - so big or expensive that the owners can't afford to run 'em or can't handle them with the available crew. Underbuying can be just as problematic - spending as little as possible just to get out on the water, and finding that the boat doesn't work for everything you want.
There are circumstance where the Bayliner is going to be the right boat - taking the family out to the lake, running "laps", pulling the kids on floats or skis, and then tying up to the dock to spend the night. Cheap to get into initially, and won't break the family budget when only used once a week or so during the summer.
What you will find with C-Dory owners are people who really USE their boats... hauling them all around and using them all seasons (OK, not where the water gets solid in the winter
). The boats are built to be comfortable and functional. From your description of intended usage, it sounds like this boat will be a better fit for you.Like most quality products, the buy-in is a bit more, but the usage will be better, as will the return when/if you sell it. Your actual cost of ownership will be less with this type of vessel.
There are boats that have more "flash"... they show well at boat shows and at the dock ("Look, Ma, this one has a built-in coffee maker and a TV!"); but don't wear well on the water.
My wife and I were looking for a boat that would take us where we want to go, safely and comfortably. Function and ease of use were important points. Factory support, since we will be traveling a lot. Trailerable. Others have already stated that this great owners group was also a big part of the decision making. Our big angst wasn't just "should we buy this boat", but: do we make the lifestyle change from sail to power? We have been very happy with this choice and continue to be impressed with the performance of our C-Dory.
Good luck with your decisions.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
mccml,
Your questions are valid and so are the answers that you have received.
Comparing the two boats is like a comparison of a twenty-year-old mid-size, gas-guzzling family car to a small, well-built, economical truck or SUV. The C-Dory has been designed and built with purpose and functionality. The fact that it holds its value is indicative that the company has been successful in continuing with the original design concept.
Bayliner's concept is to get more people into boating as cheaply as possible and does so with flash and the current colors and trick, trendy items to pull in the people at boat shows. Comparatively few new boaters, once they learn about boats and boating, remain with the brand when they move up, AND take a beating when doing so.
C-Dory owners are an ecclectic bunch, from many walks of life, but all are thoughtful and were careful in selecting a quality boat. That's one of the things that seems to hold us all together. Many of those who already commented are correct about gaining a great support group when buying a C-Dory.
I spent thirty years teaching, having retired last year and Valkyrie, our CD22 fits our needs perfectly.
I'm confident if you buy a C-Dory, you will enjoy it as much as the rest of us do.
Best regards,
Nick
"Valkyrie"
Your questions are valid and so are the answers that you have received.
Comparing the two boats is like a comparison of a twenty-year-old mid-size, gas-guzzling family car to a small, well-built, economical truck or SUV. The C-Dory has been designed and built with purpose and functionality. The fact that it holds its value is indicative that the company has been successful in continuing with the original design concept.
Bayliner's concept is to get more people into boating as cheaply as possible and does so with flash and the current colors and trick, trendy items to pull in the people at boat shows. Comparatively few new boaters, once they learn about boats and boating, remain with the brand when they move up, AND take a beating when doing so.
C-Dory owners are an ecclectic bunch, from many walks of life, but all are thoughtful and were careful in selecting a quality boat. That's one of the things that seems to hold us all together. Many of those who already commented are correct about gaining a great support group when buying a C-Dory.
I spent thirty years teaching, having retired last year and Valkyrie, our CD22 fits our needs perfectly.
I'm confident if you buy a C-Dory, you will enjoy it as much as the rest of us do.
Best regards,
Nick
"Valkyrie"
welcome to the pub, what a great way to get a discussion started.....there are lots of good responses here. One thing that is mention that we didn't pay attention to, nor care about, is "resale value". After running about in several other boats, we knew that boating was something we enjoyed and would like to do for a great long time. We looked for a boat that would fit our needs, wouldn't look dated as it aged and we could use for the next twenty+ years...we have no intention of selling...............well......maybe....if the right T.C. deal would happen along after the kid gets out of school
I would suggest that if you're new to boating, get a boat, any boat and see how it goes, you may find that it aint for you. If you do enjoy being out on the water, you'll have a better idea of what you want out of the perfect boat.
C-Dory- VW camper bus-ish
Bayliner- Blinged up GMC Yukon-ish
keep in mind that NOBODY is biased on this board.
check with your doctor to see if C-Dory is right for you
I would suggest that if you're new to boating, get a boat, any boat and see how it goes, you may find that it aint for you. If you do enjoy being out on the water, you'll have a better idea of what you want out of the perfect boat.
C-Dory- VW camper bus-ish
Bayliner- Blinged up GMC Yukon-ish
keep in mind that NOBODY is biased on this board.
check with your doctor to see if C-Dory is right for you
B~C":ihsj2xrn said:
Amen. I can only add - buy the first one USED if, in fact, it's your first boat. Unless you're an exceptional super Mensa with a prodigious memory, graduated Cum Laude from a boat handling class and have a flair for always using check lists, you're gonna make mistakes. Dumb ones even - like leaving the stern plug out or forgetting to prepare your lines before docking or accidentally tilting the outboard or I/O out of the water while docking. That way you'll get some experience with much less expense, and when you do upgrade, nobody down at the marina or launch ramp will recognize you. :lol:
Gene Morris
New member
MCCML;
I have had experience with a lower line boat, Seaswirl. I previously owned Boston Whalers and they were built very solidly, and the cost reflected that. My last boat was a beautifull 2002 2301 Seaswirl WA. The hinges were inferior, the window frames oxidized and blistered the wash down pump, bilge pumps......etc. were all inferior to what I wanted in a boat. Otherwise I wanted a boat that I wouldn't have to rebuild every year or two. With the lower priced lines, ie. Bayliner....Seaswirl.. I didn't get that. We have just taken possession of a new TC255 and the differences are obvious.
You're asking a group of C-Dory owners to compare their boats to a lesser quality vessel. The answers you get will always be pro C-Dory. There is another site that you could present your question to.
www.thehulltruth.com There are bayliner owners on that site along with owners of every other brand on the market.
My father-in-law always had a saying, regarding the quality of the product he was to purchase. "I can't afford to buy anything less than the best" Do you want to spend a little now and a lot later or more now and much less later?
Good luck with your purchase
Gene Morris
I have had experience with a lower line boat, Seaswirl. I previously owned Boston Whalers and they were built very solidly, and the cost reflected that. My last boat was a beautifull 2002 2301 Seaswirl WA. The hinges were inferior, the window frames oxidized and blistered the wash down pump, bilge pumps......etc. were all inferior to what I wanted in a boat. Otherwise I wanted a boat that I wouldn't have to rebuild every year or two. With the lower priced lines, ie. Bayliner....Seaswirl.. I didn't get that. We have just taken possession of a new TC255 and the differences are obvious.
You're asking a group of C-Dory owners to compare their boats to a lesser quality vessel. The answers you get will always be pro C-Dory. There is another site that you could present your question to.
www.thehulltruth.com There are bayliner owners on that site along with owners of every other brand on the market.
My father-in-law always had a saying, regarding the quality of the product he was to purchase. "I can't afford to buy anything less than the best" Do you want to spend a little now and a lot later or more now and much less later?
Good luck with your purchase
Gene Morris
You have some great responses--and of course biased toward the C Dory--since we all love them!
There is also a large Bayliners support group, which I should have mentioned in my first post--and I would suggest that you visit that before you decide--most of those folks don't know what a C Dory is, but they do know Bayliners.
http://pub12.ezboard.com/bbocweb
Although there is a lot of "Bayliner Bashing"--they are a good entry level boat and despite dispagering remarks--the company has been doing business sucessfully for a very long time, and is one of the foundations of the Brunswick Marine Group. If I am going to put my life and my family's life on the line, it will be in a C Dory. You cannot find a better built boat or bunch of people.
There is also a large Bayliners support group, which I should have mentioned in my first post--and I would suggest that you visit that before you decide--most of those folks don't know what a C Dory is, but they do know Bayliners.
http://pub12.ezboard.com/bbocweb
Although there is a lot of "Bayliner Bashing"--they are a good entry level boat and despite dispagering remarks--the company has been doing business sucessfully for a very long time, and is one of the foundations of the Brunswick Marine Group. If I am going to put my life and my family's life on the line, it will be in a C Dory. You cannot find a better built boat or bunch of people.