CD25 Want vs Need (from the factory)

[teedidy]

So I got a quote back from the local dealer for a new CD 25. I was both happily surprised and terrified at the same time. I had asked for the quote to include EVERYTHING possible which they did, (including a kicker when it already had twins on the spec sheet).

Items included:
SeaStar Duel Stations
Aft Console
AC/DC refrigerator
Aft deck work light
Anchor windlass
AM/FM stereo
Interior grab rails
Interior carpet runner
Macerator
Remote spot light
Snap curtains
Radar Arch
Cockpit handrails
Rocket Launcher
Eletric wipers
Washdown pump
Wallas two burner
2nd battery

My question is this: What in the list above is a "must have/need" that is best installed from the factory? I have a high level DIY skills with anything that has a decent instructional video, so I am comfortable installing most items later as needed. Is there anything not included in this list that I should also be considering for a factory install?

Stove, refrigerator, cockpit handrails, electric wipers, Washdown pump, 2nd battery, Radar Arch was my first crack of items that are a need and should be added by the Factory. Second helm is out. I would like to get radar installed for day one so would like to have the arch.

I have seen people installing 2nd/redundant bilge pumps using macerator plumbing/wiring so I am guessing that would not be a need.

I am currently an able body does that make the windlass optional?

Would having the factory do the first epoxy and anti-foul be a good idea?

Is there any additional wiring I can ask for? Examples would be for a 2nd bilge pump I can install later. I like clean wiring and having the factory pre-wire and include it with the original stack/bundle of wires would be the cleanest.

Is there any additional re-enforcement I should ask for. Example: wife really wants some kind of fold up seats in the port and starboard cockpit area. At the boat show I spoke to the builders and they said the cockpit should have some re-enforcement for this and was easy to do as long as we got it as part of the initial build. She really wants something like: https://marineproducts.net/folding-rear ... e-corners/ . Do I need anything re-enforced in the roof?

Anything else I am missing?

Thanks for your time and feedback

-Troy

 

[smckean (Tosca)]

Get the windlass.

Many of us have removed the holding tank and macerator pump in favor of a portapotti. Any problems, $100 buys you a new one. I like being able to empty it at home (I have septic) instead of requiring me to go to a pump out. Less smell potential too. Think about it.

Wiring? An inverter someday with an outlet in the galley? Scotty (or other) 12v outlets in the cockpit for puller or downriggers?

Are you happy with the amps from the factory charger?

 

[teedidy]

Get the windlass.

Many of us have removed the holding tank and macerator pump in favor of a portapotti. Any problems, $100 buys you a new one. I like being able to empty it at home (I have septic) instead of requiring me to go to a pump out. Less smell potential too. Think about it.

Wiring? An inverter someday with an outlet in the galley? Scotty (or other) 12v outlets in the cockpit for puller or downriggers?

Are you happy with the amps from the factory charger?

Does the windlass require its own battery?

I am likely to ask for up sized everything (bilge pumps, chargers, batteries)

I like the cockpit plug ideas that shall be included.

Is there any pre wireing for an inverter to consider. I guess that depends heavily on battery placement. I have seen dozens of different battery placement ideas. Does anyone separate their batteries (one port one starboard) since AGM can be stashed anywhere.

Is the Macerator required for pump out? I had thought the pump out would "Pump Out" of the holding tank and not be required. This might be a need if it is required to pump out.

 

[bridma]

I will add my 2 cents on the windlass requirement.
I had a 15lb Manson Supreme anchor, 50' quarter inch high test chain, and a couple of hundred feet of rope on my 22. Never had a problem or felt any strain on my back hauling it up by hand in a sitting position. Check the MS tech sheets and see if a 15lb anchor is also rated for a 25 C-Dory.
Martin.

 

[bridma]

Just checked the tech sheets myself. A 15lb Manson Supreme is good for boats to 30ft.
I'll also add that this anchor never failed me. First thing I did when I changed from a C-Dory to a pocket trawler (wifes idea) was change the anchor to a Manson Supreme. I never trust a Bruce which is what a lot of C-Dory's come with.
Martin.

 

[JamesTXSD]

We had a 22# Delta Quick Set anchor on our 25, and the windlass was a "must have" in my opinion. Not sure if the shelf in the V-berth area is a standard item (it wasn't at the time we ordered), but it was another "must have" item. We had a fresh water pump and hose attachment in the cockpit, and that was great for rinsing off salt water or if you wanted to keep humidity out of the head. I would consider a third battery (maybe that's what the factory is calling a second battery) - one for engine starting, two for the house.

I don't see the point of a kicker if you have twins. We had a swim step (with ladder) on the starboard side and an adjustable motor mount on the port side, since we went with a single. We used the swim platform a lot, for getting in/out of a dinghy or kayaks.

We don't fish, so no need for the rocket launchers or additional wiring to the cockpit for downriggers.

Radar is an absolute necessity, especially considering you live in WA State.

A full cockpit enclosure will give you another room and keep your cockpit relatively dry - great when cruising.

We did not do a remote spotlight - if on top of the boat, it will reflect off the bow rail. If mounted on the bow rail, you will always be looking at it. A hand-held spotlight was easy to use out the helm window.

Good luck with the process - exciting times ahead!

 

[teedidy]

Thanks James:

the windlass was a "must have" in my opinion.

Added as must have.

Not sure if the shelf in the V-berth area is a standard item (it wasn't at the time we ordered), but it was another "must have" item.

I will check yours or others for photos, I am not 100% sure I understand.

We had a fresh water pump and hose attachment in the cockpit, and that was great for rinsing off salt water or if you wanted to keep humidity out of the head.

That is a great Idea, I had thought it was only a raw water, does anyone have both raw and fresh water wash downs?

I would consider a third battery (maybe that's what the factory is calling a second battery) - one for engine starting, two for the house.

1 in the stern, 2 in the cabin.

I don't see the point of a kicker if you have twins.

This was a humorous mistake the dealer made in the quote which added to my initial price shock of nearly doubling the CD25 cost when I included every option.

Radar is an absolute necessity, especially considering you live in WA State.

Agree.

A full cockpit enclosure will give you another room and keep your cockpit relatively dry - great when cruising.

Does the dealer offer this as an option? It didn't come with my quote.

 

[teedidy]

Thanks Martin:

change the anchor to a Manson Supreme. I never trust a Bruce which is what a lot of C-Dory's come with.
Martin.

Upgrade anchor added to the list.

 

[ssobol]

I suppose it depends on how handy you are and how much free time you have, but a lot of those things can be added yourself after you get the boat probably for a lot less money.

One thing I added to my boat which I really like was a second swim step. I got that factory one and installed it myself.

 

[hardee]

"....Is the Macerator required for pump out? I had thought the pump out would "Pump Out" of the holding tank and not be required. This might be a need if it is required to pump out."

Skip the macerator and go directly to an AirHead composting toilet system. You can thank me later :wink: since you will be missing out on a ll the pumpouts, plumbing "stuff" and #%^#! along with those chores.

Most of what you had on your list would not be factory, but would be dealer installed, called commissioning. Some of that you can do, even if you are not handy with tools - carpet runner. Most dealers will get in there and put screws everywhere. If you do your own, you can use alternatives that are more easily moveable, hideable and removeable.

Might be good to go over that list with your dealer and find out which they are doing and which the factory is doing.

Items included:
SeaStar Duel Stations
Aft Console
AC/DC refrigerator
Aft deck work light
Anchor windlass
AM/FM stereo
Interior grab rails
Interior carpet runner
Macerator
Remote spot light
Snap curtains
Radar Arch
Cockpit handrails
Rocket Launcher
Eletric wipers
Washdown pump
Wallas two burner
2nd battery

There is nothing about electronics. Unless you are going to a specific electronics dealer you are going to want, Multi-funtion display unit, (MFD), radar, VHF radio (and I would start with 2 with at least one of them having AIS receive capability), depth sounder, and Auto pilot.

Not sure I would add the Second steering station unless you do a lot of use of that with fishing. Would not do the Spot light.

There was nothing about a trailer. You might want one of those too.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[localboy]

From your list. These would be eliminated for us. But if you fish, that would/could change your wants/needs. Again, this is only my opinion based on 10 yrs of ownership of our 25. Your results may vary.

SeaStar Dual Stations, Aft Console & Rocket Launcher

We are not hard-core fishermen. The 2nd station would only get in the way of cockpit space. I could see it being used when I crab or shrimp solo, but that very rarely happens. The rocket launcher we have is used only to hold dinghy paddles, a boat hook etc. (they were already on when we bought the boat and they are welded on).

Aft deck work light

Another luxury. The standard cockpit lights work fine and for task lighting, I use an LED headlamp.

AM/FM stereo

Have one. Rarely use it. A cell phone and Bluetooth speaker offer more flexibility.

Remote spot light

As mentioned above, a hand held suffices for us. I probably used it 5 times, total, in 10 yrs.

Washdown pump

Don't have one. I use a collapsible bucket. It uses no battery power and salt water does not kill it. See KISS rule.

Wallas two burner

Just pulled and sold ours. It was neither a good heater nor a good stove. A single-burner butane is more efficient for us and an Airtronic for heat.

These are either useful or I was confused:

2nd battery ?

The boat should come with this; one starter, one house.

Cockpit handrails ?

I can only assume they mean the ones at the outer corners of the cabin. Useful for all sorts of times you will have to walk around the cabin or enter/leave the boat. We hang lines from them too. That said, you could easily install them yourself.

The cockpit should have side rails, due to the increased height of the sole (the fuel tank sits underneath). The one addition we put on (and I recommend) was a splash-well safety rail. Had it made locally and put it on myself. The splash-well was way too open for our tastes, safety-wise, especially with grand-kids. It also provides a nice spot for a BBQ, a place to tie fenders/lines and something to grab, should you need it etc.

Finally, I'd put any kicker on the starboard side. All the control cables etc exit there. Why would you want to step over all that each time you ingress/egress via the swim-step? It's all a huge trip hazard, IMO. I actually moved our swim-step from starboard to port.

My opinion of the head is this: we use both our head & shower. The macerator is only used to empty it overboard. Fine in Canadian waters. Other than that, you pump it out at the dock. It is not a big deal IMO. The only hassle is when the dock pump outs are not working; happens often in Everett and it's a PIA. When that happens I will pump out at home.

As to a port-potty; the thought of walking up a long dock carrying "the contents" in a porta-potty is gross; both my wife and I deal with enough disgusting, grossness at work, we don't need it on vacation or down time. We also believe in going to bed clean, so the shower is a huge need. Yes it uses water. Yes you need power or a generator. Big deal. For us the benefits outweigh the costs.

 

[bridma]

I had a front roof mounted spotlight, operated from the cabin helm. Used it once in 6 years, I wouldn't bother if I was you. Also found it got in the way if you keep a dinghy up there. As others say, go with a hand held.
Martin.

 

[smckean (Tosca)]

I had a 15lb Manson Supreme anchor, 50' quarter inch high test chain, and a couple of hundred feet of rope on my 22. Never had a problem or felt any strain on my back hauling it up by hand in a sitting position.

There's another way to look at this.......

It's not the lack of "back saving labor" for which I love my windlass so much, it is the fact that I can set and retrieve the anchor 90% of the time without ever leaving the helm station. Very handy in poor weather or when single handing (which I do a lot).

I put about 6" of slack in the chain before I enter the cove -- I do this because sometimes the anchor will not drop on its own in calm water; a few bounces on the way in usually knocks it loose. Find my spot and drop with my thumb <grin> while the other hand stays on the wheel. When I leave, I motor toward the anchor and take up the slack with the windlass (with a bit of tension on it). When I hit a mark in the chain, I know the anchor is right at the water line. I back up a modest speed which 80% of the time cleans the anchor of mud etc. Using my thumb again, I lock the anchor into its chock. Never even stand up.

 

[bridma]

Nice read Tosca, thank you. My message is.........a 15lb (or less) anchor is quite doable retrieving by hand if you do not have a windlass. Anything heavier than 15lb, yep, get a windlass.
Martin.

 

[thataway]

You have a lot of great advice. If you are at all handy almost all of what you list can be self done.

How much time have you and your wife spent on a 25 underway?

What are your Goals with the boat?--how much fishing, cruising, overnight on the hook, vs Marina. How about a generator? Heat?

I am not home, and don't have many photos of my current 25--but it is a "keeper"--and a lot of the electrical was done by a former owner, an electrical engineer.

Windlass: Definitely get--you want a 22# +/- anchor. You want 50' of chain. Manson Supreme is good--so is Ronca. I have used a lot of Deltas, and my current boat came with a 22#. I would have bought a Ronca, if I had the choice.
I have had 3 back surgeries, and have had many back issues---many traced to raising anchors on boats I owned before I had a windlass...You don't go by the "charts" or 'specs" you want an anchor which will hold in 50 knots or more.
Battery-I run off the starting battery., Engine is always running when the windlass is in use. I also love the fingertip anchoring and retrieval.

Aft deck flood light: If on a Radar Arch, it is blocked by the Bimini. (My current boat has a very powerful flood on the arch--not much use. ) Other boats I put high intensity (and red LED"s) just under the cabin eyebrows and that lights up the cocpikit very well. I have separate switches, I can reach from the bunk, for: red LED in cabin, head, aft deck, White bright LED's Forward, Aft deck and astern.

Battery charger--consider a much better than from the factory: I have a Noco Genius 3 bank 30 amp. The Blue Seas, Pro-nautic, Victron, Master volt are also to be considered. I have battery monitoring on both systems That give amps in amps out, State of charge, volts. I have engine start, and two house. I have added 200 amps usable of Lithium ion batteries, with a Victron, 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter and 85 amp battery charger, dedicated-with Victron monitor. Overkill for most, but I have a microwave, and cook with induction plates.

Camper back--a custom made Bimini, & camper back can make all of the difference in comfort.

Spotlight--no. I have a portable flood light which mounts on the anchor, if for some reason I need light right up front--no flare or glare. I do have LED floods mounted under the eye brow--but rarely use them. I had a spotlight on the hard top of a 42 foot trawler's flying bridge---never used it once.

Rocket launchers--I have them on both my Caracal fishing boat and the C Dory25--rarely used on the 25. But if you are big on fishing--probably necessary...

The bench--maybe the boats made now, are not as sturdy as my 2007 (I doubt that, but the aft cockpit bulkhead is very beefy, and I would not hesitate put mount a fold down bench there...I have a cocktail table mount currently on that area--and it has a not of leverage--no deflection. But--I would wait until you and the wife have some experience before looking at a bench...We have used re-inforced plastic boxes and freezers/refrigerators in the back of the cockpit as seats, but also mostly use folding chairs.

Head. We have an Airhead. Gets away from the pumpout every few days--9 gallons is a small holding tank---and what if you cannot find a pump out??

Washdown--we only have fresh water wash down in the cockpit.

Interior carpet runner? Get the vinyl loop pool mat material, or Decadence. Far better than carpet--used in both cockpit and as a "runner"--plus under the helm, table, head etc...

wiring? If you want extra wire along the top of the cabin, or exposed places, then have the factory do it. But for runs to the cockpit, forward etc--just bundle with the already run wires. Always put a "pull" wire or small line, thru any space. we have them also thru the arch--Flood lights, two radio antennas, anchor/running light etc.

110 v wiring. It can be added later-but may be easier for the factory to put in extra. Places: galley and on the top of the hanging locker.

USB charging ports: we have half a dozen scattered around the boat--bunk, helm, both sides of dinette, top of hanging locker.

Wiring for auto pilot?

Wiring for the battery monitor?

AM FM stereo? We use Sirius to a Blue Tooth type of speaker. Great sound, can have several or move. Other music is I pod with the several thousand tracks..
We do have a portable AM//FM SSB receiver. That can be taken anywhere in the boat--including operated from the bunk.

Curtains, we have patterned curtains, with roll down--snap on are easy to make-- or have any canvas worker do up.

Factory is very good at building boats. Not so sure they can anticipate all of the needs you will have with accessories. For us, the accessories come from seeing other's boats, and seeing what works and what doesn't

Also ask for no foam, and cut outs for the forward bunks.

We put LED lighting in each storage compartment, also Aisle lighting.

A kicker with twins? Does not make a lot of sense. If you want a trolling motor, then go with a high trust 8 or 9.9 hp and a single 200 Yamaha or Suzuki.

Hand rails, I aways put extra hand rails thru the top overhang on sides and front--they should be standard. The Radar arch can suffice for the aft hand rails.

I believe that electric wipers are standard. Delay and intermittent is nice. Also a wiper for the middle window is nice.