Care to comment

[Hunkydory]

Jody

I'm with DD on this one. I have used a oversized swivel on the Hunkydory since purchase up to just recently, when I installed the humongous 25 pound Manson Boss Anchor, of which it now won't fit between it & the windless. I did a thorough check out of the + & - & like DD, came down in favor of the swivel.

Jay

 

[thataway]

Bob's post of the stainless steel swivel photo is the "textbook example" of not serving the clevis pin with safety wire! Nuff said...

Not at all related to failure to secure a clevis pin, I do not know exactly in this specific photo what the structure of the head of the pin is, but if you look at the swivel, the threads have stripped out, not a clevis pin not secured. Locktite would have been the proper way of securing this specific pin if it had a slotted head--as does the anchor shackle In any case, a clevis pin is never designed to take side loading, only for shear load, in a straight line.

Many times these streamlined swivels are used because it is difficult to get the anchor over a roller, because of the bulk of a bow shackle. When you mount the swivel directly to the anchor shank--as it is designed for, especially to allow the anchor to smoothly go over the roller--that is when it is more likely to have the type deformity damage.

 

[Sunbeam]

Jody,

I can't tell about the shackles in your photos (can't quite read the printing on the shackles), but I have seen many, many "no name" shackles, made in Asia, wherein I have suspected the quality (even if it is good you have no way of knowing). In fact, they are what I typically see on the shelf of even some "real" marine stores :cry

I go for the Crosby red-pin shackles, which are load rated and made in the USA. Just for example, here is a 5/16" one at Hamilton Marine:

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse. ... 18249.html

They also carry high test shackles although you have to have chain larger than 1/4" to use them (smallest they come is 3/8"):

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse. ... 18243.html

There is more info in the Crosby catalog, found at
www.thecrosbygroup.com

 

[Will-C]

http://www.defender.com/ProductDisplay?id=655621

This what we are using, just for show and tell. Don't try this at home.
D.D.

 

[jkidd]

Sunbeam

I have a half dozen or so of those in my toolbox there just to big to use on the anchor. I ordered 2 of the 5/16" 1 for a spare, for now it is what I'm going to use.



D.D
That looks like a nice swivel. I wonder if any of the manufactures have test results with there swivel against a shackle?

 

[jkidd]

Jody

I'm with DD on this one. I have used a oversized swivel on the Hunkydory since purchase up to just recently, when I installed the humongous 25 pound Manson Boss Anchor, of which it now won't fit between it & the windless. I did a thorough check out of the + & - & like DD, came down in favor of the swivel.

Jay

How's the anchor test going? Which swivel did you use?

 

[jkidd]

Manufactures assembly instructions



Manufactures recommendation for side load

 

[Sunbeam]

Since we're talking swivels, I have a couple of questions for those who use them: What does it for you? Did it solve a problem that existed? Or to put it another way: what made you seek one out to add to your rode?

 

[jkidd]

I had a swivel on for quite a while before the last thread talking about the failures. During that time I didn't have the problem of line twist that I do now. Of course the rode that is retiring is 3 strand and I'm waiting to see what the 8 plait does.

 

[Will-C]

JKidd,
I don't know about any tests but I think it read it was rated for 8500 pounds. Since I don't anchor in any type of blow I'm guessing she'll hold.

Sunbeam
I bought it cause the swivel because I think it looked really cool. Plus, I changed my ground tackle to 50' of chain and a larger anchor which I wanted to alleviate any chances of the anchor not laying flat do to chain twist. Since our boat sails around a lot at anchor and I operate mostly in tidal water with tides not fresh water lakes. Since we use a windless I didn't the 25# Manson Supreme spinning around making my bow look like a some sort of ghetto cruiser no one cared about. I don't have the room to add a shackle unless I extend the bow roller set up which I have no intentions of doing. But I might as well say we all have fairly light little boats in the grand scheme of things. I think a lot folks just over react to anything they see or hear. In my motorcycles days we used to call it hot setupitis (sic) For my anchoring conditions I don't think it's possible our boat could actually break the swivel. I asked the question if anybody ever broke a swivel with a C-Dory and no has responded yet. Swivels are an expense that some don't feel are necessary. For me it's starting to look like the red badge of courage.

D.D.

 

[Hunkydory]

Jody

I'm with DD on this one. I have used a oversized swivel on the Hunkydory since purchase up to just recently, when I installed the humongous 25 pound Manson Boss Anchor, of which it now won't fit between it & the windless. I did a thorough check out of the + & - & like DD, came down in favor of the swivel.

Jay

How's the anchor test going? Which swivel did you use?

We haven't been in a big blow yet, but as it sets instantly every time so far, I imagine it will hold the little Hunkydory just fine. The only problem so far, other than not being able to use a swivel, is the amount of mud it scoops up & I have to clean off after most every time I've anchored.

I should have clarified the type of swivel I used in the past in the previous post. This is it. http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?pa ... id=2307372 I attached the jawed end to the chain & the round end to the anchor with a clevis in between, though I wouldn't hesitate to use either the swivel you showed or the one DD uses with a CD 22 or 23 Venture. Like DD says the weight & surface area is so small on these boats that it just isn't a concern to me. Of course I wouldn't use or recommend either a cheap china swivel.

Without a swivel I've noticed a lot more twist in the chain & either having to wait for it to unwind or with 50 feet of chain in shallow water it won't unwind & the windless catches on the twisted chain. Also when the anchor shank starts through the pulpit it will hang up more often. & lastly not from personnel experience, but instead from several very experienced fisherman, whom I've talked to on my Southeast Alaska travels highly recommended having a swivel if anchoring for more than just overnight in varying wind conditions & tides.

Jay

 

[Barry Rietz]

Sunbeam, The "unserved" pin backed out of the "threaded side" but did not fall out due to the rode being under tension. As the "bent side" further opened it let the chain rode fall free. And as "Murphy's Law" suggests, it always happens at the worst possible time!

 

[Hunkydory]

Jody, don't know why the link to the swivel won't work, but in Defender Marine it's listed as a Suncor, eye jaw swivel, 5/16, with a working load of 1500 lbs, which is the same as the Crosby shackle used to attach to the anchor.

Jay

 

[Sunbeam]

Sunbeam, I bought ... the swivel because ... I wanted to alleviate any chances of the anchor not laying flat do to chain twist.

But I might as well say we all have fairly light little boats in the grand scheme of things. I think a lot folks just over react to anything they see or hear.

So if you have a concern and just feel like alleviating it (possible line twist), that's cool. But if I or others do (swivel durability), we're sky-is-falling, glass-half-full, worry warts? :wink

"Just looks cool," I understand. That's why I wanted twins! They look so darned cool and symmetrical

*********

I had a few interesting nights at anchor on Powell last fall. Of course I'd come into the whole thing planning a massive ground tackle system: 25# anchor, 5/16" chain, 50' snubber, super fair leads, etc. Then I was talked back to reality, in that this is a small boat, I can anchor in where others can't (more sheltered), I won't be in open roadsteads, etc. They had a point. So I scaled back.

Just so happened I was on Powell with my cruising bud -- we'd anchored many a night together in the past, but the C-Dory/lake was a whole new thing. There were a few nights it wasn't really possible to find completely sheltered anchorages, and ... we had to laugh as here we were sitting anchor watches overnight during a couple of big blows. I was pretty confident in the anchor and the rode, but the lack of planning good solid fair leads for the snubber had us worried (lots of surging up and down due to waves). At that point I wished I had paid a bit more attention to making the ground tackle how I like it. (The C-Dory we were buddy boating with at the time, had chosen to go nose into a little cove instead of anchoring, and they also had an unpleasant, wavy night and were driven onto shore... so it was just one of those nights.)

So yeah, it's a small light boat, and most nights should be sheltered, but... there were two nights like I described on Powell, and that was only a five-week time period. For me it's never possible (nor desirable) to sleep 100% like a rock when at anchor, but for myself I do like to feel confidence in my ground tackle (because I prefer to anchor out). To that end I like to look at specs and think about what could happen, etc. as a planning aid. So it's not as much "sky is falling" (to my mind), but more I WANT to get out and anchor, I don't want to feel more secure in a marina (and so go there if the weather looks iffy). I prefer to anchor and want to feel ready for it.

The one great thing about boats is... to each their own. Everyone makes different choices for different reasons and for the most part I think that's great (of course there are always a few people where I think "How was *that* choice made, but that's just human nature).

I really was interested in what problems or potential problems had made people try a swivel, and if that fixed it.

The C-Dory definitely moves around at anchor more than I'm used to (understatement!). I ended up setting two bow anchors in a V and tying the two rodes together just where they passed over the bow roller (bit of a cobble-up, but I was working with what I had). It did work fairly well though.

Sunbeam

 

[journey on]

jkidd/Jody;

That shackle in the first picture looks like it just sheared and didn't deform. To me, that indicates a crack from when it was new, not a high load. I'd expect to see the shackle bowed a little and/or even the pin bent if the load was big enough to break it.

Of what metal was it made? Stainless or steel? And where?



Boris

 

[jkidd]

jkidd/Jody;

That shackle in the first picture looks like it just sheared and didn't deform. To me, that indicates a crack from when it was new, not a high load. I'd expect to see the shackle bowed a little and/or even the pin bent if the load was big enough to break it.

Of what metal was it made? Stainless or steel? And where?



Boris

I got it off of another boating site. I guess the point would be we can find broken shackles or swivels. If the load exceeds it's break strength it probably should break. If they are installed correctly and the pins secured with our boats we should never see a failure. The kong and the Suncor both exceed the 1/4" chain strength. The side load is a problem for the swivel and the shackle but can be worked around. I think I could be happy with either or both depending on how you want to configure things. The kong swivel looks well made to me. So if you loctite the screw and maybe put some heat shrink over that I don't think it will fail.

 

[Molly Brown]

For those of you who would like to sleep better at anchor we use a "helper". Every time we overnight at anchor we deploy a kiwi. In the old days they just used a cannon ball and I am sure that some of you can devise homemade devices to accomplish the same thing. We have never drug anchor with this device deployed and I sleep much better knowing it's assisting with keeping the anchor pull more horizontal. This is especially useful when you don't have space to put out sufficient rode or you are in a crowded anchorage with lots of boat traffic. Keeps that rode down so other boats don't snag it.

http://commutercruiser.com/whats-a-kell ... insurance/

http://www.anchorbuddy.co.nz/

 

[Sunbeam]

Coincidentally, a post just popped up on "Sail Demarva" today that mentions swivels and "anchor coming up backwards." I've never had the "comes up backwards" issue, but it was still interesting reading. Of course as I thought about it, I realized that this can only work if you have all-chain rode (perhaps some here do, but probably not many), because with rope there is no way to keep the orientation of the chain. And of course it does not address twist induced some other way.

I've included a link. There are illustrations on the post, and I find it an interesting blog in general, so one might want to click on over:

http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2014/ ... wards.html

******


Why Does My Anchor Come up Backwards?
After fixing this on 3 boats (mine was the first) I thought I would share something so obvious it is commonly overlooked.

There are many things that can bring the anchor up backwards, not the least of which is a shift in the wind. The easy solution is a swivel, but failures are not unusual; my SS swivel had a nice interior crack that I noticed only when taking it apart to replace the anchor. Many sailors have abandoned swivels for this reason, and then wondered if they made a mistake when the anchor came up reversed most of the time. Never fear.

Notice the nice straight chain. No twist.
[illustration on the blog]


When connecting the anchor, observe that there are 4 rotation options. Unless you considered this at the time, you had only 1 chance in 4 of getting it right.
If you are 180 degrees out of alignment, reattach inverted.
If you are 90 degrees out of alignment, either add/subtract a shackle or clip one link.
The chain cannot rotate in the gypsy, thus, getting the twist right significantly improves the odds of the anchor coming up right way round, more so if the windlass is near the roller. Not 100% certain, but improved odds. For me, >95%.

******

Sunbeam