Captain's license

Yep, family stories are great. Just like with our "family" here on this forum: there's always one that makes you shake your head.

Sorry, I don't buy into: the example of one incompetent shows that all who have that degree/license/specialized training did not benefit from their education.

As one approaches a new endeavor, there is always a learning curve. Some move up that curve faster than others. Most benefit from education regarding that endeavor. In every class, there is someone at the top of the class, and someone at the bottom. But even the person at the bottom of the class likely has more knowledge than someone who hasn't taken the class.

I get that there are plenty of people who have no use for a Captain's License - it requires an investment in time, effort, and money to get there. And not all who try for it will achieve it. I would assume the majority of boating folks would not care to take on the responsibility that goes with actually using the license. Or, would not see a potential return on their investment.

That said, will a person who puts forth the effort know more about many aspects of safe boating after taking the class? Absolutely. So, it is worthwhile? Depends on the individual. My license has paid for itself many times over, so monetarily, it was a good investment. Knowledge wise: it has been priceless.

I learned about ded-reckoning (from "deduced reckoning"), even though I had been using the techniques before the class (and, yes, I know that "dead" is also used for that term) and many other boating related things. I suppose one could get their entire knowledge base from fun little sayings from his or her grandparents, but it would be rare that those delightful grandfolks knew all about "the Rules of the Road, fire safety, marlinspike seamanship, current electronic navigation, and the most up-to-date training for CPR"... etc, etc.

Plus, there is no guarantee that knowledge from the grandparents functionally passes through to the subsequent generations, as evidenced by incompetent siblings, bless their hearts.

To get back to Ken's original question regarding the value of getting the license - some folks here (who don't have the license) have stated why they haven't pursued it. I have no issue with that. Personally, I see the value, even if you don't go on to get boat jobs. There is a LOT more that goes into taking out passengers for hire than just getting the license - but that is the starting point. And, everything worthwhile has a starting point. A person won't be at the top of the knowledge base when you take that first step, but I sure don't see the downside of continuing to learn about the things that interest you. I do try to point out what I found to be factual about getting the licenses.

You can learn much of it without taking a class. A class will organize and focus the climb up that learning curve. Really, and I'll try not to say it again here, learnin' is good! :wink:

Jim
 
I believe that many do not understand how many rights as boaters they have in the US and Canada, without formal training.

If you spend time in Europe (and many other areas) you find out that there are a series of license which are necessary to operate a boat--far more than the "boaters education" cards.

Most countries require some certificate of competence, and in many the boat also has to be certified.

Many countries accept the Royal Yachting Association courses and certifications.

" International Certificate of Competence.

It is issued under the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE) Inland Transport Committee Working Party on Inland Water Transport Resolution 40. It is this resolution which details how and to whom the ICC may be issued, the syllabus requirements, the layout of the certificate and it also lists the countries which have notified the UNECE Secretariat that they have accepted the resolution.

The first level is Day skipper

Pre-course experience 5 days, 100 miles, 4 night hours on board a sailing yacht

Assumed knowledge Theory to the level of Day Skipper. It is recommended you attend the Day Skipper shorebased course beforehand.

Minimum duration 5 days, 3 weekends or 3 days plus 2 days
Minimum age 16
Course content Preparation for sea, deck work, navigation, pilotage, meteorology, rules of the road, maintenance and repair work, engines, victualling, emergency situations, yacht handling under power, yacht handling under sail, passage making, night cruising

The following certificate levels are available: Depending on where you want to go in your boat. There on the water exams, involving boat handling under many conditions, and required sea time plus written and oral exams.

RYA Powerboat Level 1
RYA Powerboat Level 2,
RYA Day Skipper practical certificate,
RYA Advanced Powerboat certificate of competence,
RYA Yachtmaster Coastal certificate of competence,
RYA Yachtmaster Offshore certificate of competence
RYA Yachtmaster Ocean, Certificate of competence


In French waters, a boat licence is necessary to be able to operate a boat when the power of the motor or motors exceeds 4.5 kilowatts or 6 horsepower. There are three different licences:
Carte Mer - daytime coastal sailing, 6 to 50 HP;
Permis Mer Côtier - nighttime sailing, further offshore, over 50 HP;
Permis Mer Hauturier - high seas, all forms of boating.
For inland waterways, there are separate specific licences. Licences to operate motorised pleasure craft are for non-commercial use only. Anyone wishing to sail for commercial purposes must obtain the relevant professional qualification.
This does not mean passengers for hire--but any commercial use.

In a number of counties, both the boat and the skipper have to be qualified before being cleared to leave port. Some countries require a formal procedure of entering and leaving each port--not just the country. If your boat does not meet standards, including safety gear, you are not allowed to leave the port.

Also you may be required to have pilotage books specific to that countries waterways (even if it is in a language you don't understand!)
 
I have not come across anything that convinces me that the holder of a
marine license who enjoys recreational boating does so in any fashion
any different than a non-licensed experienced competent individual.

Realizing I could be mistaken, and there could be a difference, then I'm
certain it must be located in the head of the one licensed.

Aye.
Grandma used to say, "It's better to be kind than trying to be right."
 
Foggy":13t5zg8x said:
I have not come across anything that convinces me that the holder of a
marine license who enjoys recreational boating does so in any fashion
any different than a non-licensed experienced competent individual.
Sigh.
 
We don't disagree on everything: one certainly doesn't need a captain's license to be a safe, competent boater. A boater needs experience to become competent, and knowledge of the rules, along with a mindset, to be safe.

Unfortunately, many folks out on the water don't know what they don't know.

We also agree with the fact that you could be mistaken: "Realizing I could be mistaken, and there could be a difference, then I'm certain it must be located in the head of the one licensed." Yep, knowledge gets stored right there in the head, of course, not the same as your thinly veiled "in the head" reference.

I do have to disagree with Grandma, though - many people boat in areas where recreational boats mix it up with commercial traffic... you are expected to do the right thing, as in understanding the difference between the stand on and give way vessels... it isn't a matter of "taking turns" or other niceties. Grandma might think it is nice to swerve to get out of the way of a landing seaplane, but that is not what the pilot expects (and not the right thing). Grandma might think it is nice to stop and let another boat go ahead, but it is not what boat to your port expects as the right thing. If she causes an accident, the Coast Guard will assign blame based on what is right, not who was nice. You can certainly be nice and right, though - it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Grandma strikes me as a nice person. She would probably be disappointed in the way you write about your brother in public and imply that people who who get a degree or a license do it only for boasting rights. And, ending every thought with "Aye," as though saying that imparts wisdom. I would imagine she would tell you to "just be nice."
 
Jim et al, I meant nothing derogatory about your professional mariners license,
experiences or even opinions. I have indicated I applaud those who want to
learn more, take courses to advance their knowledge and abilities. I do not
see why you have taken offense or seem annoyed at my posts as I am simply
stating my opinion, in my own style, as many others do. Further, it does not
bother me that you, or others, disagree with me on any particular topic.

I hope this helps.

Aye.
 
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