C-Dory vs Cruisers

[El and Bill]

Ah, and before we totally leave the discussion about porta potty vs. marine head:

Our boat had an addition all cruisers should have: a menehune.

When we left the world of marine head and entered that of a porta potty I assured El that our CD-22 had a menehune aboard and that he would maintain the porta potty in fine condition for us and not to worry about odor, mess, or all that jazz -- the menehune would take care of it and she would never have to be bothered (and he did, and she wasn't!)

What's a menehune? A Little One, in the Hawaiian culture, who took care of things in your home (usually late at night, while you are sleeping). You occasionally put out a little tidbit for the menehune and he would happily help you out (as long as there was never a cross word between the inhabitants of the home).

Our CD menehune took out the porta potty early in the morning quietly while El was still sleeping. He dumped it in the marina head or waste tank, scrubbed it clean, put a little clean deodorant into the basin, filled the water tank, made sure the battery was charged and all in order. He never dumped it overboard, always kept it sparkling clean and odor free, and it was better to use than virtually any land toilet in any home. She sometimes rewarded the menehune with a gift of m & m's or a doughnut (left on the galley stove overnight) and he never left a crumb behind.

So -- El and I align on the side of the porta potty vs. marine head (oh, the hours spent trying to fix those darned things that stopped flushing). BUT -- only if you have an onboard menehune!

 

[DuckDogTitus]

mental note:
acquire menehune.

check! 8)


my wife is going to be relieved when she finds I'm no longer making her do the work of the Little One! lol

 

[JamesTXSD]

mental note:
acquire menehune.

check! 8)


my wife is going to be relieved when she finds I'm no longer making her do the work of the Little One! lol

Making her??? How's that working out for you?

The happiest cruising couples I know are the ones who share the duties. Ideally, both of you should know how to handle anything on the boat. You may gravitate to "pink jobs" and "blue jobs" where you tend to specialize, but that doesn't mean you can't do each others' jobs when necessary.

Since 22s aren't plumbed with marine heads, porta-pottys are pretty much your option (the other option: hold it!). 25s give you the option of a plumbed marine head, the SeaLand RV-type, Air-Head (or other composting toilet), or a porta-potty. The 22 is smaller, lighter, fewer systems. The 25 is over a ton heavier; longer, wider, and taller; more amenities (like: shore power, hot and cold pressure water, enclosed head, shower, more storage, etc).

Don't get me wrong, when you're out on the boat, the toilet is the place you'll spend the least amount of time... BUT, it is one of many important decisions. You can make any of the toilet options work. What it really comes down to: what combination of features and size will be the best for the way YOU will use the boat.

We felt the 25 was the smallest boat that met our needs. There are a lot of people here who feel the 22 is best for their needs. And, there will be people here who will tell you anything bigger than 16' is wretched excess. :wink: Since you are the one writing the check, you get to make the decisions.

Good luck with the decisions.

Jim B.

 

[DuckDogTitus]

mental note:
acquire menehune.

check! 8)


my wife is going to be relieved when she finds I'm no longer making her do the work of the Little One! lol

Making her??? How's that working out for you?

better than asking. lol 8)
I kid, I kid. actually I shared this thread with her and told her, you poop, you scoop. again, joking (kinda).

I am thinking more and more the 22 is probably going to be a good boat for us. number one concern is safety, as I want to be able to venture into places I was not comfortable venturing with the open bow fishing boat we had before, and number two is sleeping/living quarters, and like many of you pointed out, there is a plethora of options with 'evacuating'.

can't wait for the boat show tomorrow.........


are any of you over 6ft tall? I have a buddy who is 6'7". He is my main hunting and fishing bud, I am wondering if he will be able to sleep on the cd22 at all comfortably?

 

[bridma]

I believe that in the USA boats over a certain length (or sleep aboard) must have a holding tank. Canada does not have that regulation yet (I may be out of date) so we can discharge in deep tidal waters 3 miles from shore.
We do have NO DISCHARGE areas marked in our cruising books. We carry a porta-potti but it is rarely used and it does keep us legal if we head south.
More often than not we use the bucket & chuck it method. Bought a camping bucket from Canadian Tire. Comes with a loo seat and a snap down air tight lid. We empty it in the allowed deep waters or when we get back to the marina. Also comes in handy as a cockpit coffee table or something to put my feet on when reading a book.

Martin.

 

[Sunbeam]

Since 22s aren't plumbed with marine heads, porta-pottys are pretty much your option (the other option: hold it!).

Although rare (and I'm not saying it's the way I'd go), I have seen a 22 plumbed with the "pumpoutable via deck fitting" porta-potti, and I think I have seen one with a marine head also. I think the porta-potti suits the 22 well though.

I believe that in the USA boats over a certain length (or sleep aboard) must have a holding tank.

I'm not aware of that rule. I have friends who have cruised full time on "larger" boats with a porta-potti (or even a bucket) and I believe they were "legal." There are a few places in the US that I know of with stricter rules, but they are the exception in my experience and I don't know that they correspond to boat length. For example:

Great Lakes has some zero discharge areas - this means even no grey water from the sink can go overboard. On the other hand, a porta potti is okay there because it does not discharge overboard.

Marathon Harbor (Florida Keys) - if you want to use the city moorings, you have to have a "pump-out-on-deck-able" head. I know folks who added the deck pumpout fitting to their porta potti (some models have this option) so they could moor there, and it was then okay (you can also anchor with a regular porta-potti - it's just for the city moorings).

I don't know it all though, so maybe there is something I am not aware of.

Sunbeam

PS: Funny thing is that I had "heard" that porta-pottis were not legal in Canada..... maybe myths just go back and forth? (I would check into it further before heading north.)

 

[BRAZO]

We had the advantage of realizing that more is not always better. We downsized from our beloved 32' Sundowner Tug and wanted everything to be simple and easy. The porta-potty never fills up because there is always a bathroom to take it and empty it - no looking for a pump-out.

The statement that we live by is "buy the smallest boat that you can afford". Soon (3yrs) we will live between our 450sq ft cottage, 22' C-Dory, and our 24' Winnebago View (and airplanes/hotels/cruise boats/etc). Can't wait.

Buy either and you'll love it.

 

[BRAZO]

For example:

Great Lakes has some zero discharge areas - this means even no grey water from the sink can go overboard. On the other hand, a porta potti is okay there because it does not discharge overboard.

We have cruised all over the Great Lakes (and live on) and don't recall any "no grey water" areas. That would be a major problem as all boats in this are discharge grey water. Must be small bay's here and there.

 

[bridma]

Hi Sunbeam,

By 'holding tank' in the USA, I was meaning that the porta-potti does have a holding tank, thereby keeping me legal when heading south.
Sorry I did not explain it very well the first time.



Martin.

 

[NewMoon]

I have a buddy who is 6'7". He is my main hunting and fishing bud, I am wondering if he will be able to sleep on the cd22 at all comfortably?

The dinette berth is 6'2". The v-berth is 6'3" fore and aft, somewhat longer in the diagonal direction from one of its aft corners to the center of the bow end of it.

If your buddy sleeps on his side with knees somewhat bent, I'd guess he'd be OK. He might be OK laid straight out in the v-berth.

 

[Sunbeam]

For example:

Great Lakes has some zero discharge areas

We have cruised all over the Great Lakes (and live on) and don't recall any "no grey water" areas

I'm glad you challenged this as I looked up the area I thought was zero (grey water) discharge (Apostle Islands National Lakeshore) and I guess it isn't. It does look as though there may have been some sort of pilot program a few years ago (maybe why I thought it was), but I couldn't tell for sure without wading through a lot of government documents. I also see that the US NDZ's (see info further below) prohibit grey water discharge from commercial ships, so maybe the person who told me this was confused by that (I had no reason to look into it at the time).

I did find this on a sailing forum from 2010, so I guess I'm wasn't totally dreaming:

"One of the new developments worth noting is that there restrictions are starting to crop up to forbid "grey" water (sink and shower) discharge. Isle Royale National Park (U.S., Lake Superior) has a little-known reg that states: "Federal regulations prohibit the discharge of any waste, including gray water, into park waters." See p 12 of the park's boating guide. Isle Royale National Park - Brochures (U.S. National Park Service)
This reg was introduced as I recall in 2009 by the park superintendent, and it will be interesting to see if the policy is followed elsewhere. If anyone knows of a similar policy on grey water discharge in the Great Lakes, I'd be interested to know."

However, looking at ISRO's home page now, I don't find anything special about their discharge rules (could be I missed it).

Sorry for any inaccuracies

Here is a link to current NDZ's by state and other look-up methods. But as I understand it, this is for treated or untreated black water from pleasure vessels and only grey water (plus black water) from commercial vessels. In contrast, in non NDZ's, treated sewage can be discharged, as I understand it.

http://water.epa.gov/polwaste/vwd/vsdnozone.cfm
Sunbeam

 

[JamesTXSD]

Although rare (and I'm not saying it's the way I'd go), I have seen a 22 plumbed with the "pumpoutable via deck fitting" porta-potti, and I think I have seen one with a marine head also. I think the porta-potti suits the 22 well though.

Yes, if you look through all the albums here, there is one 22 where the owner removed the dinette and built in an enclosed head. Wouldn't be my choice, 'cause I spend more time eating and relaxing at the dinette than I do on the toilet, but each owner gets to do what they want with their own boat. 8)

If one keeps the porta-potty in the conventional location on a 22 (under the middle aft end of the V-berth (at the opening), running a hose for an owner-installed deck-pump out fitting means working around the V-berth, the bulkhead, or the helm... but, with determination and a plan, anything is possible. Realistically, the vast majority aren't that way and I have no idea if any were ever done that way from the factory.

If one is trying to "keep it simple", not running plumbing for a porta-potty is the simple way. (Basing that on what the majority of 22 owners here state)

I don't think it serves a potential buyer to lead them to believe that there will be different head options on a 22. We agree: I think the porta-potty is a good solution on a 22, based on logistics and available space.

Best wishes,
Jim

 

[Sunbeam]

If one is trying to "keep it simple", not running plumbing for a porta-potty is the simple way. (Basing that on what the majority of 22 owners here state)

I completely agree that a straight port-potti, with no hoses or plumbing leading to it, is the simple way and the way the vast majority of 22's are set up. One of my reasons for choosing a 22 over a 25 was the greater simplicity. To each their own, but I like it simple.

I don't think it serves a potential buyer to lead them to believe that there will be different head options on a 22.

I hope I didn't make it sound like anyone could just run out and find one with a plumbed in head, as that was not my intention. I tried to convey that it was a rare customization, but possible for the right person/boat (maybe I bungled that and wasn't clear). I actually wasn't thinking of one of the 22's modified to have a head "room"; but rather I was thinking of one I had seen that had the type of porta potti (in the v-berth location) that can also be plumbed to accept a deck pump out (some pottis come with this option). That seems like a decent compromise for folks who have a convenient pump out locally and don't want to "lug" the porta potti all the time (you can still lug it by just taking the lower section out of the boat to dump; it can be used either way). Not my choice as I don't want to mess with hoses and etc. but might suit someone who wanted a pumpable head, but for other reasons wanted a 22, and wanted to keep the head in the stock location under the V-berth.

But like you say, more typical (and probably right for most people) is the straight porta potti on the 22. I like mine :thup

Sunbeam

 

[PeterQ]

Marine head plumbing and pump outs are a nuisance at best! How about configuring a 25 with an Airhead toilet? This would combine the convenience of a Porta Potti with a private stand-up head compartment and hot shower....

 

[ghone]

The potty in real world cruising is generally relegated to emergency use or as a receptacle for a nighttime pee bucket empty. I have been on the road and water full time this trip for 10 weeks so far and Kerri On is home, we'll be quite a while yet. Lots to see. The realities are, on the road you are in gas stations, rest stops, coffee shops, museums etc and use those facilities. On the water we're in marinas, state parks, provincial parks etc. use those facilities. We have now taken to keeping the potty in the cockpit to free up storage under the bunk. In emergencies it comes inside. Happened once at sea! Rare. I like to go aboard boats I like and close the head door. Take off my jacket. If my elbow hits anything it's too small. Ranger 27 included. My last cruising boat I built was 31 foot steel cutter. It had a head. The enclosure was 45 inches long by 39 inches wide. No shower. It was barely adequate. I think most heads in under 30 are smaller than this. Now try to shower in there. No thanks. I go ashore or in the cockpit with the solar or pump shower. Lots of room. After owning complex boats I love the c dory. We are a hit in rv parks and marinas alike. She's simple folks. The pleasures of a small simple boat that goes places other than the shop is a true joy. I like to park it and go for lunch. Lots of boats you park and go for the tool box. Fix what broke today. Yuck. The 22 is a small boat that does a lot right. Fun too. Cheers. George and Carolyn.

 

[ckcpony]

Check out page two of Montana Kev's album "Grace"
He has a drawing of a concept enclosed head on a 22 Cruiser.
Something to consider .

 

[colbysmith]

Last year I sold my 1988 Searay Sundancer 268 and purchased a 2007 CD-22. The Sun Dancer was a good boat, and rode better here on the Great Lakes. I loved the "cave" for hiding in lousy weather, and privacy. Plenty of room and a stand up head. However on trailer I was towing over 9000 lbs, on water I drew 3 feet and it drank the gas. Also winterizing the motor made the season done before the first freeze. Now about the 22. Boat on trailer weighs 4500 lbs, also allowing me to downsize my tow vehicle for a double savings on gas. It's outboard is winterized by placing it in the down position allowing a few extra boating trips after the first freeze. (Just talking cooling system in this regard.). V berth is much smaller but we don't spend that much time sleeping on the boat anyway. Porta potty not as nice as a stand up head, but suffices. Nice having pilot house cabin to stay out of the elements, and with nice view. Draws under a foot, and good in big water too. For me the CD-22 offers a good and versatile boat that can go anywhere. It's easy to tow and easy to modify. Thus far I have no regrets about downsizing from the Sundancer to the C-dory. I'd just recommend consider how and where you want to use the boat, and proceed from there. BTW, I've fished off and set up for down rigging on both boats. The Sun Dancer had a nice big swim platform and easier access to the water. But the CD-22 is easier to handle.
Colby

 

[hardee]

My 22 is a cruiser. It is a C-Dory 22 Cruiser. And I use it to cruise, (what you might be calling boat camping) mostly for weekends and an occasional long weekend. It works great for that. Occasionally carry a porta potti, and often just a bucket. Don't spend much time cooking, but have the devices and space if we need it.

Onto much more important matter. Some friends had an express cruiser, brand X that was 22 feet long, (same size as my 22) but deeper V, wider beam, in/out drive, and a heavier boat. We traveled together often. The real eye opener was a trip north to Princes Louisa Inlet for a long weekend. When we stopped to buy fuel, each time, after running side by side, same speeds and same water conditions, the C-dory fuel fee was exactly half of the other boat's fee.

Sure glad I didn't go the express cruiser route we looked at. Or the other one that we looked at either. :twisted: 8)

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

 

[DuckDogTitus]

well, we're sold.

we spent all day saturday drooling over boats at the show and our three favorites by far were the C-Dorys, the Ranger Tugs, and the MacGregor (went the other way there, huh?).

In terms of what we'll do most of the time, the C-Dory just seems to be the best fit for us for fishing, travel/towing, and camping. Not to mention budget. Those Tugs though.................... really cool boats!

 

[colbysmith]

I've only had mine one season, but so far I've been very happy with it. I think if you are looking for something you can tow, camp on, cruise on, fish on, you can do all that. You want something for shallow water or big water, you can do that too. I just found it to be a very versatile boat.