There are several opinions in regards to purchasing a boat with twins or a single. My wife and I are considering purchasing a 22' crusier and would like some opinions from owners as to which is better. In addition, we live on the west coast - if anyone has a contact in the sales end I'd love to receive that information. We're looking for either an 07 or 08. I'd love to pick up a 25' but don't think we can fit that into $50k budget....Thanks for your help and hope to see you in the near future.
C-dory help in purchasing.
- Thread starter bshillam
- Start date
Welcome.
There is an endless debate about single versus twin engines and I think it boils down to personal preference. I have a 2006 22' cruiser (C-Cakes) with twin Honda 40's and am happy with it. I like the redundancy of the twins plus the ability to put one in reverse and the other in forward and pivot the boat in a tight circle. I use that quite a lot in marinas and other tight quarters. There has been a lot of discussion about twins versus singles on this site and you should be able to find threads without too much difficulty.
As to dealers, I bought my boat from Les Lampman at EQ harbor Services on Whidbey Island (360) 679-4783 and cannot speak highly enough of him. Whidbey Island is about 2 hours north of Seattle.
There is an endless debate about single versus twin engines and I think it boils down to personal preference. I have a 2006 22' cruiser (C-Cakes) with twin Honda 40's and am happy with it. I like the redundancy of the twins plus the ability to put one in reverse and the other in forward and pivot the boat in a tight circle. I use that quite a lot in marinas and other tight quarters. There has been a lot of discussion about twins versus singles on this site and you should be able to find threads without too much difficulty.
As to dealers, I bought my boat from Les Lampman at EQ harbor Services on Whidbey Island (360) 679-4783 and cannot speak highly enough of him. Whidbey Island is about 2 hours north of Seattle.
mark&diana
New member
We bought our TC earlier this summer from Sportcraft Marina in Oregon City. We are first time boat owners and they have done a great job in answering our questions and helping us outfit the boat. I believe they have a number of CD 22 and 25s in their lot that you could take a look at.
We haven't regretted our decision to buy.
Good luck!
We haven't regretted our decision to buy.
Good luck!
Hey there...
Good luck on your possible purchase. I bought a TomCat 255 and am a fan of dual engines for several reasons:
1 - Handling in tight situations is much more controlled.
2 - No matter how well maintained, sometimes an engine has problems. Often these problems arise in rough water, storms, or tight maneuvering situations, like close to a dam, or in the path of an oncoming ship, etc..
Just this last weekend, one of my Honda 150's started coughing and sputtering just as I was going under a bridge in a rain storm with multiple boats around, high winds, etc... The second engine carried us through that with no effort on our part and we anchored in a protected cove and cleaned water out of the Racor filter. You never know when a second engine comes in handy.
3 - Boats with dual engines tend to track straighter - less steering effort.
4 - Almost the same fuel consumption as a single engine.
5 - Close to the same maintenance expense as a main engine and kicker. You really should not go alot of places where you have to depend upon others to tow you out should you have engine problems.
6 - A small kicker engine cannot get you home rapidly, or home safe in heavy seas.
However, if you find a good deal on a single engine model and like the boat, go for that if you want. It's not the end of the world, but a lot more convenient and less stressful to have two engines.
Have fun in your search! John
Good luck on your possible purchase. I bought a TomCat 255 and am a fan of dual engines for several reasons:
1 - Handling in tight situations is much more controlled.
2 - No matter how well maintained, sometimes an engine has problems. Often these problems arise in rough water, storms, or tight maneuvering situations, like close to a dam, or in the path of an oncoming ship, etc..
Just this last weekend, one of my Honda 150's started coughing and sputtering just as I was going under a bridge in a rain storm with multiple boats around, high winds, etc... The second engine carried us through that with no effort on our part and we anchored in a protected cove and cleaned water out of the Racor filter. You never know when a second engine comes in handy.
3 - Boats with dual engines tend to track straighter - less steering effort.
4 - Almost the same fuel consumption as a single engine.
5 - Close to the same maintenance expense as a main engine and kicker. You really should not go alot of places where you have to depend upon others to tow you out should you have engine problems.
6 - A small kicker engine cannot get you home rapidly, or home safe in heavy seas.
However, if you find a good deal on a single engine model and like the boat, go for that if you want. It's not the end of the world, but a lot more convenient and less stressful to have two engines.
Have fun in your search! John
patrick and linda
New member
I'M STRONGLY IN FAVOR OF TWIN ENGINES FOR ALL THE ABOVE STATED REASONS.
I HAVE FOUND THAT WORKING ONE ENGINE AGAINST THE OTHER DOESN'T PROVIDE THE CONTROL ONE MIGHT BE ACCUSTOM TO ON LARGER BOATS. THE 22' C-DORY'S ENGINES ARE PLACED RELATIVELY CLOSE TO EACH OTHER, AND WITH SMALLER PROPS, JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO GET THE JOB DONE.
I MAY BE WRONG ON THIS POINT BUT I BELIEVE ON THE TOMCAT THE ENGINES ARE SPACED FARTHER APART AND THUS WILL RE-ACT MORE FAVORABLY TO WORKING ONE AGAINST THE OTHER.
GOOD LUCK!
I HAVE FOUND THAT WORKING ONE ENGINE AGAINST THE OTHER DOESN'T PROVIDE THE CONTROL ONE MIGHT BE ACCUSTOM TO ON LARGER BOATS. THE 22' C-DORY'S ENGINES ARE PLACED RELATIVELY CLOSE TO EACH OTHER, AND WITH SMALLER PROPS, JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO GET THE JOB DONE.
I MAY BE WRONG ON THIS POINT BUT I BELIEVE ON THE TOMCAT THE ENGINES ARE SPACED FARTHER APART AND THUS WILL RE-ACT MORE FAVORABLY TO WORKING ONE AGAINST THE OTHER.
GOOD LUCK!
mikeporterinmd
New member
Depends a lot on where you cruise. Reportedly, the largest dealer of
C-Dory's on the Chesapeake will not even rig a CD-22 with twins.
Twins would be cool, and I would prefer a used boat with twins over
one with a single. But, obviously not enough to wait for one with
twins. Which, given the above, would be a long wait unless I traveled
to buy a boat.
Mike
C-Dory's on the Chesapeake will not even rig a CD-22 with twins.
Twins would be cool, and I would prefer a used boat with twins over
one with a single. But, obviously not enough to wait for one with
twins. Which, given the above, would be a long wait unless I traveled
to buy a boat.
Mike
patrick and linda
New member
a wild guess regarding the dealer only selling single engines, would be, cost/sale, takes greater labor to rig twins. doesn't make senses to me but as a business owner you learn very quickly, sell the buyer what he wants, as long as you have explain other available options.
pat
pat
You know, You could have a PNWestern dealer such as Les at EQ set up your twins. About as reliable a dealer and setup shop as you'd ever find anywhere, so fewer surpises on delivery. Then you could arrange a week or two's vacation to cruise around the San Juans and Puget Sound area.
If your local dealer has not been installing twins, I'd be reluctant to be his first try at it.
You'll be paying the shipping fees to the East Coast either way. The East Coast dealers have to add those shipping fees onto your final price.
The good Capt Patrick is correct about less two engine control on a CD 22 than on the wider spaced TomCat, but I think you could help reduce the bow's blowing off in a docking situation on a 22. On the TomCat you can almost spin the boat on a dime using dual engines.
Good luck and have fun!
John
If your local dealer has not been installing twins, I'd be reluctant to be his first try at it.
You'll be paying the shipping fees to the East Coast either way. The East Coast dealers have to add those shipping fees onto your final price.
The good Capt Patrick is correct about less two engine control on a CD 22 than on the wider spaced TomCat, but I think you could help reduce the bow's blowing off in a docking situation on a 22. On the TomCat you can almost spin the boat on a dime using dual engines.
Good luck and have fun!
John
flapbreaker
New member
It really depends on how you intend to use the boat. If the primary intent is cruising than I don't see why you wouldn't go with twins. I however chose a single with kicker because I planned on doing LOTS of trolling and didn't want to put endless hours at idle on an expensive engine. Also, I wanted to fish from the cockpit and not the helm. Lot's of things can go wrong and there's nothing wrong with the redundancy plan but even that's not fool proof. So it really does boil down to your intended use.
As a side note. Others might disagree with me but I highly recommend purchasing your c-dory at the nearest dealer. I found out that boats are not like cars as far as service goes. I bought mine out of state since at the time my local dealer was fresh out of 22's. After using the boat a while I discovered some wiring was incorrectly installed by the dealer. Normally I would have the dealer fix. I didn't want to have to tow the boat for 10 hours one way just to have them fix it. Since it was a rigging issue and not a hull/factory issue I couldn't really ask my local dealer to fix the problems so I was left to do it myself. Had I thought of this in advance I would of waited for my local dealer to get one in stock. Just my perspective though. Good luck with your decision.
As a side note. Others might disagree with me but I highly recommend purchasing your c-dory at the nearest dealer. I found out that boats are not like cars as far as service goes. I bought mine out of state since at the time my local dealer was fresh out of 22's. After using the boat a while I discovered some wiring was incorrectly installed by the dealer. Normally I would have the dealer fix. I didn't want to have to tow the boat for 10 hours one way just to have them fix it. Since it was a rigging issue and not a hull/factory issue I couldn't really ask my local dealer to fix the problems so I was left to do it myself. Had I thought of this in advance I would of waited for my local dealer to get one in stock. Just my perspective though. Good luck with your decision.
Flapbreaker,
I agree with you IF the local dealer is knowledgeable in the boat, engines and electronics you are e.xpecting him to install. The saltwater attachments and electronics seemed foreign to the Wichita, KS area dealers. When I asked questions about the function or location of some devices, they did not even know what the devices were!
Down in Oklahoma, on some very large lakes, they actually have Raymarine installers and trouble shooters who come right out to your boat on the water 24/7 for emergency repairs and service. Of course, the Seattle area is full o knowledgeable dealers, but from what I've heard on the site here, it's a bit of a gamble as to how good an installation job they do as well as how good they are going to treat you after the sale.
I'm suppose there are some dealers as particular and thorough as Les at EQ somewhere, but I don't think a dealer who has never installed dual engines/controls,etc. on a C-Dory is the best one to let experiment on your new boat. IF that new dealer was open and ready to install what you, the BUYER wanted, maybe that's a consideration, but for him to just refuse to install the dual engines may be a harbinger of the type of service to expect down the road.
John
I agree with you IF the local dealer is knowledgeable in the boat, engines and electronics you are e.xpecting him to install. The saltwater attachments and electronics seemed foreign to the Wichita, KS area dealers. When I asked questions about the function or location of some devices, they did not even know what the devices were!
Down in Oklahoma, on some very large lakes, they actually have Raymarine installers and trouble shooters who come right out to your boat on the water 24/7 for emergency repairs and service. Of course, the Seattle area is full o knowledgeable dealers, but from what I've heard on the site here, it's a bit of a gamble as to how good an installation job they do as well as how good they are going to treat you after the sale.
I'm suppose there are some dealers as particular and thorough as Les at EQ somewhere, but I don't think a dealer who has never installed dual engines/controls,etc. on a C-Dory is the best one to let experiment on your new boat. IF that new dealer was open and ready to install what you, the BUYER wanted, maybe that's a consideration, but for him to just refuse to install the dual engines may be a harbinger of the type of service to expect down the road.
John
mikeporterinmd
New member
bshillam":1l5chj46 said:
No idea. This information was sent to me by a fellow C-Brat. I don't remember
many, if any, CD-22s with twins at the Ches. Bay gathering.
Perhaps they don't like the extra weight?
Mike
In looking at the performance chart that C-dory produces on it's site it appears that the dual fortys are actually more economical. Unless 8.5 MPH the single is at 5.67 MPG. Otherwise the duals appear to be the choice - I also like the redundancy specially since the wife and I will be travelling and vacationing in the CD. I really appreciate the help and suggestions everyone has been giving. I'm hoping the wife and I can make a decision soon as it's a wonderful 75 today :smiled .
Bshilam,
The old C-DOG site had a thread about ways to reduce pounding in at fast speeds in short chop. I am thinking those NE lakes probably have a lot of chop.
4 cycle engines were heavier then (that was years ago), but many thought using a heavy, all chain anchor rode, and keeping a light transom would reduce hull pounding at speed. Of course, too much bow weight can be dangerous if it leads to bow steering as Dr. Bob has explained.
I really think you ought to buy from a dealer who will listen to you, explain why he recommends a particular setup (honestly) and finally set the boat up exactly as you wish.
Dealers installing dual engines have to carry larger inventories since they have to give you a brand or two in 40's , 50's and singles in 70,80,90 hp.
Installation of twins requires more work, but most importantly, better educated and more careful installers and that costs more.
After the first few months, you will have little to do with your initial dealer, unless he is the closest, most convenient, and will ing to listen to your concerns over maintenance, accessories, etc.. If he won't listen to you at the start, go somewhere where they will - refardless of doubles or singles.
John
The old C-DOG site had a thread about ways to reduce pounding in at fast speeds in short chop. I am thinking those NE lakes probably have a lot of chop.
4 cycle engines were heavier then (that was years ago), but many thought using a heavy, all chain anchor rode, and keeping a light transom would reduce hull pounding at speed. Of course, too much bow weight can be dangerous if it leads to bow steering as Dr. Bob has explained.
I really think you ought to buy from a dealer who will listen to you, explain why he recommends a particular setup (honestly) and finally set the boat up exactly as you wish.
Dealers installing dual engines have to carry larger inventories since they have to give you a brand or two in 40's , 50's and singles in 70,80,90 hp.
Installation of twins requires more work, but most importantly, better educated and more careful installers and that costs more.
After the first few months, you will have little to do with your initial dealer, unless he is the closest, most convenient, and will ing to listen to your concerns over maintenance, accessories, etc.. If he won't listen to you at the start, go somewhere where they will - refardless of doubles or singles.
John
El and Bill
New member
Our two cents, after 24,000 nmiles cruising with twins in our CD-22. Fuel consumption is almost identical to single with same equiv hp, weight is almost the same, initial cost is almost the same (for counterpart hp), maintaining is somewhat more (twice as many points, etc). So virrtually the same.
Now -- once one of our 40's died (bad servicing) at a most critical moment -- on a fast moving river, with an infant aboard, and immediately above the bow of a moored barge -- the second 40 got us out of what might have been a disaster.
Then -- on the Chesapeake -- one original 40 died of old age (right after the Chesapeake Gathering). No dealer could get another (without a huge cost increase) for three months! So, with our other 40 still purring, we headed up to the Erie Canal and cruised those three months in speed-limit controlled water and had a delightful summer!
Now -- once one of our 40's died (bad servicing) at a most critical moment -- on a fast moving river, with an infant aboard, and immediately above the bow of a moored barge -- the second 40 got us out of what might have been a disaster.
Then -- on the Chesapeake -- one original 40 died of old age (right after the Chesapeake Gathering). No dealer could get another (without a huge cost increase) for three months! So, with our other 40 still purring, we headed up to the Erie Canal and cruised those three months in speed-limit controlled water and had a delightful summer!
My CD 22 will spin on a dime with its twin Honda 40's. At first I tried one engine in reverse and one forward steering straight ahead resulting in no boat movement but lots of water movement. One day when demonstrating it to the admiral she suggested I crank the wheel over; well there we were spinning just like we were on a pole. It defied my engineering logic but I'm smart enough to use what works. Try it, you'll like it.
The concern I had about buying twins on our CD-25 has now gone away. We are particular towards the Hondas, and at the time we bought our boat, the 90hp motors were not fuel injected. The factory recommended the 135 for the way we'd be cruising. It has been a great solution to our cruising style, but with the new 90s being fuel injected, I'd certainly consider that as an option on our size boat. The only times we've felt the need for more horsepower have been at high altitude lakes (like Lake Tahoe or Yellowstone Lake). If we were going to spend more time there, I'd invest in a different prop.
Good luck with your decisions. To this point, I haven't heard of anyone who has been disappointed either way - twins or a big single. You can't lose!
Best wishes,
Jim B,
Good luck with your decisions. To this point, I haven't heard of anyone who has been disappointed either way - twins or a big single. You can't lose!
Best wishes,
Jim B,