C-Dory Boat Club

R

RobLL

New member
I have looked, one of my sons did join, and I have friends who are interested in a shared boat club. I know pilots in our area have frequently been co-owners of Cessna 180s, and it all seems to be done without any problems. Whereas commercial boat clubs seem to want several hundred dollars a month to be a member, cheaper to own your own! Looking onsite and online no contracts or shared boats appear, maybe someone can supply a missing link. (where is Lucy when we need her?)

Some of my thoughts.
An ideal C-Dory club would have one or two each 22 and 25 foot boats, and 4 members per boat. Summer share time would be divied out by formula. And the rest of the time it would be a rare day when a boat was not available.

Ideal boat: Say 10 years old, a few dings, in good shape. Trailer available, but moored in the water for easy availability. Such a Puget Sound club would have boats scattered throughout the sound.

Everyone would pay for and own 1/4 of a boat. There would be a monthly fee to cover insurance and maintenance, and an hourly charge. Gassing up for every short usage is a pain, work out a simpler system. Once or twice a year an afternoon shine up the boat party.

Perhaps every owner would kick in $2000 to the reserve fund. Like with a car rental take a few pictures of the boat before taking it out.

Life jackets, lines, (personal radio/rescue devices?), minimal galley supplies would be available and kept up to date.

ps - I have one friend who is interested, a couple more and it might be worth some time seeing if this could work.
 
Boat clubs are becoming popular that’s for sure. We have one in our marina that has prospered for more than 6 years. They have levels of membership and choices of pontoons, ski boats and deck boats. They are sold out most summer weekends. A majority of the members I see leaving the docks have 4 to 10 passengers and are slanted toward family outings and entertaining friends. C-dorys are great boats for fishing and cruising, and are owned and loved by the best boaters on earth, BUT, IMHO a club with only C-dory’s would have a limited customer base. Plus someone would have to manage the reservations, maintenence, and be in charge to resolve conflicts of missed return times and damage assessments. I think boat clubs are businesses.
 
My suggestion is if you want shared ownership--form a partnership. Write out the contract, have the people buy shares, have an attorney at least check the contracts. Have lots of insurance. Also the most difficult item, (aside from maintenance, is how to sell the boat or get out of the partnership.)

I had a successful partnership on a 45 foot racing sailboat. Even though the other owner and I were friends, there were many issues which had to be addressed. The most difficult was when it was sold. Rigging and sails were damaged, parts were lost, Maintenance didn't always get done (including filling the fuel tank and pumping out the holding tank.).

I also leased a 29 foot sailboat to 3 men when I was in the Army for two years. The biggest problem was the inboard engine threw a rod. Eventually the issue was worked out--but it was not entirely stress free.

A shared boat is sort of like a shared wife....

The "Boat clubs" have professional maintenance people, check out procedures and even lessons.
 
My dad once got a great deal on a boat called "Quartet." It had previously been owned by 4 people who had equal shares. But they didn't have equal skills on boat operation and maintenance. Not too surprising that the partner who never did maintenance somehow slammed one Ford Lehman from forward to reverse and tore out the motor mounts (and other damage). Somehow, the other partners filled a successful insurance claim and put the boat up for sale. Taking a $40K loss was a better deal than keeping the partnership.

With an airplane partnership, you at least have the knowledge that each pilot has passed a certification. And the routine maintenance is usually performed by a qualified third party with the partners splitting the cost.

But for a boat? I think I'd rather share my wife.

Mark
 
Interesting discussion on boat clubs. As folks have mentioned, they are becoming very popular. I know someone who bought into a club, but in his case, the boats are owned by a business, and the members buy time for usage of the boats. They (the business) have boats in a few locations so the members can boat on either Lake Ontario, or the Finger Lakes. I was interested in reading Bob's comments. I have thought it might be interesting to try out joint ownership of a boat, to spread out the costs. Bob has some excellent insight on what it really involves. Sounds like a good way to possibly lose friends by feuding over maintenance issues.
Jack
 
I remain curious as to why it works with planes, and especially smaller planes. Usually a good partnership is based on a good contract. And good people - another hard part.

The second point is numbers. A little larger is likely better, e.g. "I am in a club that has three boats and we have 15 members". If the perception is, I own a membership rather than I own a part of that particular boat dynamics change.

Four people owning a 15 year old C-Dory 22 have only $10K in. For most people in my age group that is not a significant part of their assets. A car that devalued tends to be given to a grand kid.
 
RobLL":axjoharz said:
I remain curious as to why it works with planes, and especially smaller planes. Usually a good partnership is based on a good contract. And good people - another hard part.
...
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I think it works for airplanes because the asset and operating costs are so high that a lot of pilot's cannot afford to own a plane by themselves, so they are sort of forced into making it work. Also, everything associated with aircraft is much more highly regulated, so if you want to operate an aircraft everybody has to follow the rules. Getting to the point where you can actually fly an airplane requires a certain mindset and discipline that probably makes pilots more responsible people. Finally, not following the procedures, rules, and regulations can have a more immediate impact on a pilot's personal welfare than when messing about with a boat.
 
Bad idea. Really bad.

Too many people with different interests wanting to do about the same thing at
a stage of life when their ability to adapt, blend or overcome has greatly
diminished. Then there's the costs: legal, maintenance, repairs, insurance
(think about your time aboard being ruined by another 'owner' who is responsible
for causing damage making your jointly owned boat inoperable when it's 'your
turn').

I tried this back around 2000 with a written agreement with my brother. It went
south in a year. One year and hard feelings to boot. Think about being an owner
with someone, or several others, you don''t know so well. The only way I can see
this thing breath air for, say, 4 owners is to have one have the aptitude and desire
to do all the mechanical, one the electrical/electronics, one the spit and polish
cleaning, and one clean the head. Yea, who's gonna want to do that when it's
not even yours??

A better mousetrap is rent (charter) a boat someone else owns and manages,
preferably a well known Company with good references. Then walk away after
your cruise and forget about it until you want to do it again.

Having to "own" sounds like fun from an uninitiated standpoint but is full of
pitfalls when it involves others.

Want camaraderie? Join a Yacht Club.

Aye.
Grandpa used to say, "I'm not smarter than you. I've just been around longer."
 
I am well aware of the pitfalls of doing things in groups. Two condos, and HOAs with a variety gifts, talents, and shortcomings. Somehow we manage to survive. And there is WAY more at stake than a relatively inexpensive boat.
 
ssobol":17ey5e9s said:
fly an airplane requires a certain mindset and discipline that probably makes pilots more responsible people.
Click to expand...

Which seems to be true but isn't really rational. Falling out of the sky and smacking the earth is deadlier than falling overboard and drowning? Never chug a few beers in a plane at 5,000 feet, but it's okay in a boat at 5,000 rpm? I'm not sure why air pilots are more responsible than water pilots, for both themselves and their passengers, but that looks to be the case.

Mark
 
I have been aware of a few places (or instances) of boats being in a"time share" mode. One person owns, and takes care of everything, and the participants pay for a 2, 3, or 4 week slot. In some cases the scheduling rolls around the calendar, in others it is based on priority, first in gets first pick. I did share ownership with a brother-in-law on a sailboat one time. It went OK as a way for both of us to get into boat ownership. Lasted a couple of years and then he moved to Hawaii, but that gave me time to save up and buy him out. Not sure I would try that with strangers. I think owning the time share boat might be a way to make it work, but there would have to be enough fee to cover damages and normal wear and tear. It might be less hassle and more prudent to own a boat and put it into a good charter service.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

3_Bellingham_Line_of_C_D_s_2009_917.highlight.jpg
 
Marco Flamingo":1v3ghxfg said:
ssobol":1v3ghxfg said:
fly an airplane requires a certain mindset and discipline that probably makes pilots more responsible people.
Click to expand...

Which seems to be true but isn't really rational. Falling out of the sky and smacking the earth is deadlier than falling overboard and drowning? Never chug a few beers in a plane at 5,000 feet, but it's okay in a boat at 5,000 rpm? I'm not sure why air pilots are more responsible than water pilots, for both themselves and their passengers, but that looks to be the case.

Mark
Click to expand...

Generally speaking when things go south in an airplane the potential consequences are usually much more severe. If you're flying along in a single engine airplane and the motor quits you always have to make some quick decisions that if made incorrectly can have a serious or even fatal outcome. Even then, sometimes you're just sc**wed and gravity always wins. At the very least you're going to have some serious explaining to do.

If the motor quits on your single engine boat, granted if this occurs at the wrong time it can result in a bad outcome, but more often than not you can just drop the anchor and have a beer while waiting for a tow back to the dock. In a popular boating area, you probably don't even have to wait very long.

In the 6 years I've owned my CD-22 I've had to give tows to two different boats which were disabled and were looking for a tow back to the dock. Not something you can do with an airplane.

Once I was out and had a fuel flow issue that caused my motor to quit. I was being carried by the current towards a rocky shore. I just dropped the anchor which held my boat in place while I sorted the engine out. Once it was running again, I pulled up the anchor and went on my way. Again not something you can do in an airplane while fixing the engine if the engine quits in flight.
 
In an airplane, gravity always wins. On the water, water always wins. In both situations there are things you can do to mitigate the circumstances, and doing the right things, making the right decisions can be extremely important to life and limb. Being prepared in both situations pays off. The laws of physics are never broken, but we can use physics to "keep our neck out of the sling" so to speak.

My friend, Paul Priest (the late J.C. Lately) did not believe in the need for a kicker on his 22 Cruiser, since he never needed one on his single engine airplane, but he maintained his Honda 90 like he did his airplane engine.

Paul was the guy you would want to be doing the maintenance on your boat club boat.

Me, I have twins :thup :thup

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_055.highlight.jpg
 
I had several physician friends who made wrong judgements ref weather with airplanes--and they died. I have a number of physician friends who were boaters made bad judgments ref weather--and they were inconvenienced--but lived. Sort of sums it up for me. I never did fly--even though I had a number of opportunities in the military and thru family who flew.
 
Marco Flamingo":qhkt1dzp said:
ssobol":qhkt1dzp said:
fly an airplane requires a certain mindset and discipline that probably makes pilots more responsible people.
Click to expand...

Which seems to be true but isn't really rational. Falling out of the sky and smacking the earth is deadlier than falling overboard and drowning? Never chug a few beers in a plane at 5,000 feet, but it's okay in a boat at 5,000 rpm? I'm not sure why air pilots are more responsible than water pilots, for both themselves and their passengers, but that looks to be the case.

Mark
Click to expand...

I think the big difference is: one needs a minimum qualification of written, oral, hours, and a flight test to become a private pilot. You need none of that to buy a boat and drive it. On rare occasions, when someone has stolen an airplane and manages to take off, the end result is pretty predictable. Someone renting a boat, with no experience, generally doesn't suffer the same fate.

I don't know why, but the "average Joe" thinks he can handle a boat. That same person knows better with an airplane.

I have a commercial/instrument/multi-engine license for aircraft and 100 ton near coastal master captain's license for boats. Both take a lot of study, practice, and testing to achieve. Everyone flying an airplane legally has had a minimum of training, testing, medical exam, and hours. The same cannot be said for the majority of people driving boats.

I truly don't understand why operators of those two types of conveyances are held to different standards. Based on what I have seen on the water, many people operating boats could use some training.

Clubs or owners groups of either conveyance seem to approach each from a different perspective. When's the last time you "filed a float plan?"

I have worked with some great boat captains, all of whom took their responsibility for the safety of their guests and the equipment seriously.

How often, though, have you seen people at the ramp load the cases of beer onboard, but don't remember to put out lines or fenders? OR check to see if the required safety equipment is onboard?

I have also worked for two different companies who rented powerboats to tourists (with zero qualifications - ID and a credit card, you're good to go)... it is amazing to me that there weren't more incidents. I guess the water is more forgiving.
 
I knew a Finn who said getting a driver's license in Finland involved about the same amount of study and effort as getting a private pilot's license in the US. In Finland you had to learn a lot more about how a car worked and what to do in abnormal situations than you needed to learn in the US.

However, this makes sense if you consider the operating environments. In Finland you are much more likely to find yourself in extreme weather and undeveloped areas than you are in the US and you need to know as much as possible so you can resolve the issues with your vehicle. A break down by the side of the road in winter is a much more serious situation there than usually occurs in the US.
 
I think it could work with the right people and in the right setting. It just seems like a lot of risk for not much reward. I'd rather just buy a boat.

It's still a good idea though Rob and if you feel passionate about it then do it. Don't listen to us! Did any of us ever think that Uber would work??? :)
 
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