Are Used C-Dory's Overpriced?
- Thread starter Papillon
- Start date
Ahem! Harrumph! Pardon me . . .
This thread seems to have drifted a bit from its original topic . . .
This is an important issue for many owners (and wannabe's), so maybe it would be helpful to get back on track, or take the other conversations into the next room.
Sorry for interrupting . . .
iggy
This thread seems to have drifted a bit from its original topic . . .
This is an important issue for many owners (and wannabe's), so maybe it would be helpful to get back on track, or take the other conversations into the next room.
Sorry for interrupting . . .
iggy
flapbreaker
New member
I guess a simple test for anyone wondering if a used c-dory is overpriced is to go price a new one. And not a stripped down new one. Don't underestimate the cost of rigging a new boat with goodies. If the price difference doesn't seem great enough between new and used then buy new. My guess is if you price out a new c-dory with similiar equipement there is more value in the used ones than what first meets the eye.
I think high. We paid 20K for a 1989 angler with 4 stroke Yamaha main (about 600 hours) and almost new 9 Honda kicker - single axle trailer. Of course we shop a lot!! It would have been a LOT more if the main had been a Honda :lol: :lol:
That included 2 electric downriggers, older GPS, and Humminbird d/s.
Dusty
That included 2 electric downriggers, older GPS, and Humminbird d/s.
Dusty
Salmon Slayer
New member
Hey Iggy:
A conversation about a 25 year old boat that was purchased for a tenth of a new boat that had many extras including a top of the line pilot seat is on topic about whether older C-Dorys are overpriced or not.
The bottom line is that many older boats have extras that increase their useable value if not their financial value and not everyone can afford 40K or up for such a pocket cruiser.
C-Dory ownership is attainable for almost everyone and used prices often include some very pricey extras.
A conversation about a 25 year old boat that was purchased for a tenth of a new boat that had many extras including a top of the line pilot seat is on topic about whether older C-Dorys are overpriced or not.
The bottom line is that many older boats have extras that increase their useable value if not their financial value and not everyone can afford 40K or up for such a pocket cruiser.
C-Dory ownership is attainable for almost everyone and used prices often include some very pricey extras.
iggy":1hzmt8j3 said:
. . . in typical C-Brat fashion. Sorta feels like home.
Not to despair, Iggy my friend. When we get around to it, this thread will be moved to the Marketplace Reference forum so the insights offered here will be readily available for the many prospective buyers who ask just such questions. The wandering banter will be split off into it's own topic - a very easy task and one that can't even be considered editing. When we get around to it, that is. I usually think it best to let a thread go and grow when it is lively and wait until the activity has settled down to move/organize/categorize.
Pat Anderson
New member
This is a very interesting thread - as we may or may not have a used CD25 for sale at some point in the future, you can take what I say with a grain of salt of course.
The most important point made I think, at least for people considering buying a late model used boat versus a new boat, is to add up the cost of the new bare boat, plus options, additions and modifications, before comparing it to the used boat you are looking at. How much will you have to add to the factory price for that Canvas Riggers camperback? For that Raymarine C-80? For that Icom DSC VHF radio? For the stereo system? For the options, like the extra house battery? Swim step? Kicker bracket? For the dozens of smaller customizations like electronics shelf mods, chart rack, under-galley storage system, breaker panel cover, etc.? How about anchor and rode? Dock lines? Fenders? Fire extinguishers? Just be sure you are making a fair comparison. A new CD25 bare boat usually has $7,500 - $10,000 (seriously) of additions to become comparable to a ready-to-cruise used boat. Also, a potential biggie, add $6,500 for the trailer for the new boat when comparing (I think one of the changes in the pricing at the last boat show was that the factory deleted the trailer as part of the package price on the CD25, but I could be wrong here).
The most important point not made yet is the delay factor in buying a new boat. We ordered our CD25 on January 15 or thereabouts. It was May 15 before the boat was ready for delivery. Four full months. Very hard months for us, since we had sold our CD22. If you look at crusing weekends like we do, how many weekends do you have in your lifetime? We will never get those four months back, and we missed some prime Northwest cruising. I don't know how you place a value on this but especially in places where you can cruise year round it should not be overlooked.
The most important point made I think, at least for people considering buying a late model used boat versus a new boat, is to add up the cost of the new bare boat, plus options, additions and modifications, before comparing it to the used boat you are looking at. How much will you have to add to the factory price for that Canvas Riggers camperback? For that Raymarine C-80? For that Icom DSC VHF radio? For the stereo system? For the options, like the extra house battery? Swim step? Kicker bracket? For the dozens of smaller customizations like electronics shelf mods, chart rack, under-galley storage system, breaker panel cover, etc.? How about anchor and rode? Dock lines? Fenders? Fire extinguishers? Just be sure you are making a fair comparison. A new CD25 bare boat usually has $7,500 - $10,000 (seriously) of additions to become comparable to a ready-to-cruise used boat. Also, a potential biggie, add $6,500 for the trailer for the new boat when comparing (I think one of the changes in the pricing at the last boat show was that the factory deleted the trailer as part of the package price on the CD25, but I could be wrong here).
The most important point not made yet is the delay factor in buying a new boat. We ordered our CD25 on January 15 or thereabouts. It was May 15 before the boat was ready for delivery. Four full months. Very hard months for us, since we had sold our CD22. If you look at crusing weekends like we do, how many weekends do you have in your lifetime? We will never get those four months back, and we missed some prime Northwest cruising. I don't know how you place a value on this but especially in places where you can cruise year round it should not be overlooked.
I think a real eye-opener is to fill out one of the dealer's new boat and equipment order forms. Over the years, I have worked on those from a 22, 25, TomCat and the C-Ranger. It is shocking but true that it costs about as much to put a windlass or radar on a 16 as it does a 25... something we tend to forget. So, a big portion of a boat's value is in the additional, but necessary equipment.
Additionally, being in the middle of the US, the shipping on the larger boats is estimated from $5-6,000! OUCH! So, where the boat is could become a big ticket item on a used boat. And, one could build a chunk of equity by just picking up the boat himself.
John
Additionally, being in the middle of the US, the shipping on the larger boats is estimated from $5-6,000! OUCH! So, where the boat is could become a big ticket item on a used boat. And, one could build a chunk of equity by just picking up the boat himself.
John
Chuckpacific
New member
To answer the original question....YES, used C-Dories are overpriced. So are used Mercedes Benzes, used Lexuses, used Pacific Seacraft sailboats, used Browning firearms, used Airstream trailers...
But the thing is, and not to throw water on your fire, the 'extras' on a dory are the same as the extras on any boat, which in actual dollars is akin to used furniture...next to nothing. Go try and sell your 10 year old trailer. Go try and sell your old radar, your old GPS unit. These things have next to nothing in actual value, irrespective of what they cost new or how functionable they are on their current boat. This is just the reality of boating items...expensive as hell to buy, worthless on resell.
Also, someone just posted that used C-dorys are akin to used Mercedes. This is patently false. A c-dory is more akin to a volkswagon camper if you are to use an auto analogy, and neither vehicle demands a premium over the NADA used vehicle guide as is being asked by C-Dory owners.
No, as a potential buyer, I can't justify the used prices. I just had someone email me pics of a VERY NICE used C-Dory. He wants 36 grand for the boat. The NADA value of this boat floats in around 24,000.
Try paying 12,000 over NADA next time you buy a mercedes and justify that. Most astute shoppers demand a discount way under NADA.
If I do end up getting a C-dory, it will be at or below NADA, and it will be the first boat I ever paid anywhere near NADA on. In absense of that, I will buy a new one and take the hit.
I understand that you guys love your boats. I think it is cool. But so far I cannot see how you justify these prices for your used boats. If you can get it, more power to you, but with a huge buyers market in boats looming on the horizon, I can't see it holding up for long, especially in areas other than the northwest where the C-dory style really shines.
I hope you don't take offense, I just am calling it as I see it.
Also, someone just posted that used C-dorys are akin to used Mercedes. This is patently false. A c-dory is more akin to a volkswagon camper if you are to use an auto analogy, and neither vehicle demands a premium over the NADA used vehicle guide as is being asked by C-Dory owners.
No, as a potential buyer, I can't justify the used prices. I just had someone email me pics of a VERY NICE used C-Dory. He wants 36 grand for the boat. The NADA value of this boat floats in around 24,000.
Try paying 12,000 over NADA next time you buy a mercedes and justify that. Most astute shoppers demand a discount way under NADA.
If I do end up getting a C-dory, it will be at or below NADA, and it will be the first boat I ever paid anywhere near NADA on. In absense of that, I will buy a new one and take the hit.
I understand that you guys love your boats. I think it is cool. But so far I cannot see how you justify these prices for your used boats. If you can get it, more power to you, but with a huge buyers market in boats looming on the horizon, I can't see it holding up for long, especially in areas other than the northwest where the C-dory style really shines.
I hope you don't take offense, I just am calling it as I see it.
gregfl":1htum9tf said:
I'm sure not offended, but I think a reality check is in order. Price out a used Corsair trimaran. Or a used Harley Davidson. It is not a buyers' market for those, because they just don't make enough of them to meet demand (OK, not so much on H-Ds anymore). NADA is a JOKE for the price of a C-Dory... not enough samples to get an accurate price, so they go with standard depreciation... not realistic for a niche boat like this.
Let me know when you find that CD for NADA book... but you better buy it FIRST! :wink
Best wishes,
Jim B
Chuckpacific
New member
I wasn't trying to set the Mercedes up as analogous to a C-Dory, I was only pointing out that some used items sell more quickly than others and often at a so-called premium. That's why I included some other examples. Using any 'guide' to pricing ignores the reality of supply and demand and the individual appeal of a certain item.
Example: Two years ago I put my 1988 Landcruiser (low miles, great condition) up for sale. Blue book on it was $2800. I asked $9000 (which didn't keep the phone from ringing off the hook) and ended up selling it for $7500. Should I have offered it at the blue book price? You tell me.
Example: Two years ago I put my 1988 Landcruiser (low miles, great condition) up for sale. Blue book on it was $2800. I asked $9000 (which didn't keep the phone from ringing off the hook) and ended up selling it for $7500. Should I have offered it at the blue book price? You tell me.
gregfl,
First of all, Pat was comparing the purchase of a late model used C-Dory vs new.
Pat wrote:
Secondly, C-Dorys are definitely niche boats where the principles of supply and demand apply. Take a look at the C-Dorys recently purchased in the Market Place Reference topic under Forums, you'll see that nearly all the sellers received a very good price for their boats and that the buyers were more than willing to pay the Market price. I have serious doubts whether any of those boats were sold at NADA price or below. As Jim B. stated, "a reality check is in order." On the other hand, if you're able to purchase a CD at or below NADA, the more power to you. Good luck.
Peter
First of all, Pat was comparing the purchase of a late model used C-Dory vs new.
Pat wrote:
where the electronics, motors, et al are pretty current and not in need of changing.
Secondly, C-Dorys are definitely niche boats where the principles of supply and demand apply. Take a look at the C-Dorys recently purchased in the Market Place Reference topic under Forums, you'll see that nearly all the sellers received a very good price for their boats and that the buyers were more than willing to pay the Market price. I have serious doubts whether any of those boats were sold at NADA price or below. As Jim B. stated, "a reality check is in order." On the other hand, if you're able to purchase a CD at or below NADA, the more power to you. Good luck.
Peter
gregfl":23325p5n said:
Congratualtions on your future new boat.
Seriously, though - if you are patient, you will eventually find a good deal on a used C-Dory, just as you will on any high demand item. I know it's possible - we just found a 16 that was at least $4K low based on comparable sales I've seen. However, we still paid significantly more than NADA's ill-informed valuation...
You just have to look in non-obvious places (hint - this ain't one of them), and be ready to jump in immediately with a cash offer. You may have to drive a way to get it. You may have to buy sight unseen. The exceptional deals are out there, they just take longer to find, and may carry extra risk and complexity. Most folks don't care for all that hassle...and will pay market prices.
Im with you on that Da Nag.
Thanks for the advice. I looked today at several 'alternative' resources and found some other used c-dory listings.
Alas, they are all way above NADA. I guess the only thing you can use the NADA guide when price shopping is to try to beat down the seller.
physically.
Thanks for the advice. I looked today at several 'alternative' resources and found some other used c-dory listings.
Alas, they are all way above NADA. I guess the only thing you can use the NADA guide when price shopping is to try to beat down the seller.
physically.
Rabbits Hutch
New member
Ironically,
My 2006 22' Cruiser listed for sale is presently the most expensive at $50k fully loaded. Even at that price, the telephone rings every other day with inquiries if she's still available, and individuals have driven up to 3 hours to view her.
Simply a case of supply vs demand and simple economic principles.
As long as the C-Dory factory continues to build one boat at a time, by hand, maintaining their present level of quality control and personal service.... demand will always outstrip supply and prices will remain inflated.
Perhaps if C-Dory one day adopts a mass production assembly line, characteristic of other manufacturers...which will in turn see an inherent degredation to product quality, NADA simply wont apply here.
Regards,
Gary R.
My 2006 22' Cruiser listed for sale is presently the most expensive at $50k fully loaded. Even at that price, the telephone rings every other day with inquiries if she's still available, and individuals have driven up to 3 hours to view her.
Simply a case of supply vs demand and simple economic principles.
As long as the C-Dory factory continues to build one boat at a time, by hand, maintaining their present level of quality control and personal service.... demand will always outstrip supply and prices will remain inflated.
Perhaps if C-Dory one day adopts a mass production assembly line, characteristic of other manufacturers...which will in turn see an inherent degredation to product quality, NADA simply wont apply here.
Regards,
Gary R.
Rabbits Hutch":10qxds11 said:
Gary you're likely going to sell to someone facing a long factory lead time as well as the "J" factor, (Jeeze, it's in Omaha). It will be interesting knowing how close, percentage wise, your boat - or any boat listed here on C-Brats - actually sells for. I suspect within 10% of asking though 5% might even be the actual average.
Fortunately, the C-Dory is a "cult" boat and, like small well restored Bertrams, can fetch prices far in excess of NADA's bean counter approach to values. Again, the winners need only get a Marine Survey to find the true value and the losers buy - well - um - the other "B" boats.
Don
Rabbits Hutch
New member
Well, the sooner my 2006 22' Cruiser sells, the sooner I can place my order for a 25' C-Ranger tug. :lol: :lol:
Gary R.
Gary R.