Anchor Drum Winch

hardee":v89t8ppw said:
I like the concept of keeping the rode and chain out of the V-Birth. I also like the Spectra/Dyneema size weight and working load ratio. Still, that takes a pretty good chunk of space (Thanks Bob, for the brochure link), and don't have measurements but that foredeck on a 22 is just not huge.

Harvey
SleepyC

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r

Be pretty big on a 22’
22.5” long
14.5” wide
13” tall (12” spool)
No wet anchor line inside the boat was one factor, along with using the locker space for an extra battery as part of the Alaska bound preparation.
There also seems to be A lot of discussions around failure, almost works most of time, where can I find parts with traditional windless offerings. Which was the real driver to look at drum systems.

Steven
 
Check out Lone Star Marine winches.
I installed a GX-1 winch on my boat and love it.
I don’t have to go to the bow to tie the rode to a cleat and the winch doesn’t interfere with my line of sight.
The winch holds my boat nicely with a 13 lbs anchor, 20' of chain, and about 200 feet of synthetic rode.

You can also purchase the pre-made wires for the installation.

Check out my album to see a couple of pics.
 
Nash 22":me089eov said:
Check out Lone Star Marine winches.
I installed a GX-1 winch on my boat and love it.
I don’t have to go to the bow to tie the rode to a cleat and the winch doesn’t interfere with my line of sight.
The winch holds my boat nicely with a 13 lbs anchor, 20' of chain, and about 200 feet of synthetic rode.

You can also purchase the pre-made wires for the installation.

Check out my album to see a couple of pics.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up on the Lone Star Winch! Interesting!
The review of testing showed the Lone Star Marine winch was clearly superior to other's reviewed in Australia.

Where did you buy the Winch, what material and diameter of synthetic line? How did you do the chain to rope splice. What is the capacity of the winch with the line you are using.

Too bad it was not compared with the EZ Anchor puller. But the Lone Star certainly seems like a very good winch.
 
When I was toying with the idea of a drum winch, Lone Star was the brand I was looking at. Their testing results were really impressive. As always, a bit of skepticism is in order when a manufacturer tests its own product, but the winches appear to be very well built and durable. I never got far enough down the road to do a mock up to see what an installation might look like, and how it might affect line of sight. Scratch pad drawings had me pretty well convinced it would be doable. My thought on the rode was roughtly: 50 feet of chain, 150 feet of 8-plait or double-braided rope, and however many more feet of Dyneema would fit. I figured the chain catenary and the braided rope would suffice for shock absorption. Generally, the fewer connections the better in almost any system, but anchor to chain to braided rope to Dyneema to drum didn't seem unreasonable. It only adds one connection to a pretty standard set-up.
 
thataway":2cipcexp said:
Nash 22":2cipcexp said:
Check out Lone Star Marine winches.
I installed a GX-1 winch on my boat and love it.
I don’t have to go to the bow to tie the rode to a cleat and the winch doesn’t interfere with my line of sight.
The winch holds my boat nicely with a 13 lbs anchor, 20' of chain, and about 200 feet of synthetic rode.

You can also purchase the pre-made wires for the installation.

Check out my album to see a couple of pics.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up on the Lone Star Winch! Interesting!
The review of testing showed the Lone Star Marine winch was clearly superior to other's reviewed in Australia.

Where did you buy the Winch, what material and diameter of synthetic line? How did you do the chain to rope splice. What is the capacity of the winch with the line you are using.

Too bad it was not compared with the EZ Anchor puller. But the Lone Star certainly seems like a very good winch.
Click to expand...


I bought the winch through Hammermarine.com which is located in Texas. Great customer service.
I don’t recall the details for the line itself, but i bought it as a package with the chain already spliced to the line.
If you look at the Hammer Marine website, the description of each model of winch has the recommended dimensions for the anchor rod and the drum capacity.

Keep in mind that I bought the GX1 because its hold capacity satisfies my needs for boating in the Chesapeake Bay. Last 4th of July I was anchored across the Naval Academy in Annapolis waiting for the fireworks and it held nicely in some windy conditions. If your boating conditions include offshore or very rough waters, I would recommend the GX2 or GX3 models.

The installation is straight forward aside from drilling oversized holes, filling the holes with epoxy, and drilling the epoxy for the size of the bolts. I did a lot of research about windlasses and i am not a fan of putting wet and muddy anchor rod inside the cabin. At the time of my research the E’Z anchor website did not inspire confidence and I could not reach anyone on the phone or email. I did have the chance to see a used EZ anchor winch for sale in my area but it was out of a fishing boat, old, and it was way too big for me.

I really cannot say enough of my anchor winch. Easy to use from inside the cab and holds my boat well for the type of boating i do.
 
Given the anchor swivel topic going on, thought I'd necro this topic. Anyone with more to add on the subject of drums in the last couple seasons? Was a option I was considering myself. Sounds like its a tight fit on a 22, is the 23 venture any better or worse?
 
Punkin, I second your enthusiasm for the drum winch. I was a pesticide operator earlier in my life and came to appreciate the hose winches that are exposed for all to see what is going on. They were dependable, visible and easy to use...jump ahead 48 years, I'm a boater looking for a solution for anchoring convenience. The style of the drum winch impresses me. So I'd like hear first hand from users and if the GX-1 wouldn't just be the cats meow for the 22.

Also, I'll have to go back and re-check, but did I hear that with a GX-1 you don't have to tie off the anchor when completely up (completely retrieved) or deployed? That would be a worthwhile attribute.

If I could use the Drum winch then I would repurpose the deck pipe to hold a spare rode, ready to hook to a spare anchor, and yet be protected by the cover. I've been on a number of sailboats that had a rode ready to use should the main anchor fail in some way.
 
I may have just found a reason to avoid these winches but I seriously am interested in your take on it. Look at the table below. As far as which model I would need for the weight reasons I would be wise to have GX-1 or GX-2. Then I happened to notice that, although they used heavier rode in their videos like 1/2" or so the recommendations below call for only 1/4 or 5/16 rope. Well "this changes everything". I don't think these arthritis ridden hands would enjoy fumbling with such a small diameter rope. Any thoughts on this?


225ft 1/4 inch D/B rope & 20ft of 1/4 inch S/L chain
300ft 5/16 inch D/B rope & 25ft of 1/4 inch S/L chain
300ft 5/16 inch D/B rope & 25ft of 1/4 inch S/L chain
330ft 3/8 inch D/B rope & 35ft of 5/16 inch S/L chain
425ft 3/8 inch D/B rope & 40ft of 5/16 inch S/L chain
450ft 1/2 inch D/B rope & 35ft of 3/8 inch S/L chain
500ft 7/8 inch D/B rope & 39ft of 1/2 inch S/L chain
 
I had the time so I called the owner of Lone Star. He was very genuine and sincere when He explained that he has sold many of these GX-1 & 2 with very fine spectra line. In fact he mentioned Halibut fishermen in Alaska using his setups as they need to put out a lot of line to anchor in several hundred feet of water.
He uses 4mm Spectra or Dyema for CD22 sized boats and they all have 25 or so feet of a larger top line ahead of your chain. Very I'm impressed. What are your thoughts on 4 or 6 mm as your primary anchor line? Could you set a 4mm anchor line and go sleep soundly?
As we discussed his products further I became convinced that I should pay attention to this technology and learn what I can. It offers a lot to Loopers that are in mostly calm waters that are usually of a shallower nature. Especially CD22 owners where storage space is at a premium.

Penny for your thoughts and big bucks for actual, users, testimonials.
 
I personally would not want to give up the deck space for a reel type of windlass. They are used on commercial fishing boats on a regular basis--far more often than on recreation vessels. Perhaps if you were going to anchor every night in a different place or multiple times a day---I might consider. But for the usual. use in a C Dory, it does not make a lot of sense.

Yes, the synthetic lines have a very strong weight and size ratio to the safe working load. They would be a devil to work with if necessary by hand. They have no shock absorbing ability. You have to figure some ways to give shock absorption for the rode system. Although these ropes are reasonably. resistant to abrasion, they would not take much of a cut to be weakened substantially.

I have used the original deck pipe for a second rode as Donald describes--net to "fence off' the primary rode. If length of rode is an issue ref space, then the 8 plait makes sense, even if you have to go down to 3/8" (for most boats 1/2" works very well). I have never found storage of anchors or rodes to be a problem in C Dorys--usually a generatio 3 or 4 anchor on the bow, and a Fortress or 2 or 3 for stern and mud works well. The Fortress and Guardian break down very easily and fairly quickly for storage.

These drum anchor windlasses are rarely seen on full time long distance cruising recreational boats. There are reasons. Even the mega yachts where money is not an issue rarely use these systems.
 
For overnight I do plan to anchor only along the route, we have always liked this. We also fish a lot so it is nice to be able to move sites quickly. I prefer the 'concept' of drum windlasses. But I've never personally used one. I have used many a winch in both Capstan and spool while logging or other. It seems this will work great...in concept.

Thanks for the tip of using netting for the spare anchor rode stored in the deck pipe.


thataway":eusgw84p said:
I personally would not want to give up the deck space for a reel type of windlass. They are used on commercial fishing boats on a regular basis--far more often than on recreation vessels. Perhaps if you were going to anchor every night in a different place or multiple times a day---I might consider. But for the usual. use in a C Dory, it does not make a lot of sense.

Yes, the synthetic lines have a very strong weight and size ratio to the safe working load. They would be a devil to work with if necessary by hand. They have no shock absorbing ability. You have to figure some ways to give shock absorption for the rode system. Although these ropes are reasonably. resistant to abrasion, they would not take much of a cut to be weakened substantially.

I have used the original deck pipe for a second rode as Donald describes--net to "fence off' the primary rode. If length of rode is an issue ref space, then the 8 plait makes sense, even if you have to go down to 3/8" (for most boats 1/2" works very well). I have never found storage of anchors or rodes to be a problem in C Dorys--usually a generatio 3 or 4 anchor on the bow, and a Fortress or 2 or 3 for stern and mud works well. The Fortress and Guardian break down very easily and fairly quickly for storage.

These drum anchor windlasses are rarely seen on full time long distance cruising recreational boats. There are reasons. Even the mega yachts where money is not an issue rarely use these systems.
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By the way, a little vote here. When all the chips are down,what is the smallest diameter rode that feels okay in hand. Is it 3/8, 7/16 or 1/2”? In an imperfect world, which would be the smallest you would be comfortable with?
 
Donald Tyson":3syktvrw said:
By the way, a little vote here. When all the chips are down,what is the smallest diameter rode that feels okay in hand. Is it 3/8, 7/16 or 1/2”? In an imperfect world, which would be the smallest you would be comfortable with?
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Depends on the load on the rode. For the anchor on my boat, 3/8 3-strand works fine.
 
On this Drum Windlass, the GX-1, I realized why the anchor rode is not tied off....maybe over-night, certainly not when hopping around during the day. Inside the motor the drive gears are made of a metal which is claimed to be many times stronger that the normal bronze gears. The gears are worm gears that stop turning the minute you stop pushing the button.
 
Yes the worm gears hold the line--just as the worm gears will hold a 14,000 Lb boat on my boat lift. (7,000 per side way more than any anchor will hold.

Back to shock absorbing: how are you going to manage that?

I had a Danforth HT 12 with 300 feet of 3/8" nylon double braid. I have also had some 3/8 inch sheets and halyards on my racing sailboats. No problem, although I tend to wear gloves with using the smaller lines, or lines which might run fast for some reason. Winches take the ultimate load with the sheets and halyards.
 
Great observations using the lift as an example.

I really am not sure how to handle shock. That is new to me. Never needed it before but suspect I'll need some sort of shock absorbers in some of the more exposed anchorages on the loop.

I may just use 3/8" line. It only holds 130'+/-. That is good for 16-20'. Perhaps the very few times I'd find us in deeper water I could just add another 3/8 rode inline. I bet that on The Loop, with such a shallow draft vessel, I'd never add the extra rode.

Please give me some time to learn more. Perhaps the need for dampening cannot be overcome and that would not be so nice, I guess. Thanks you so much for your observations.

Am I close in saying that on The Loop there are very few times that we would anchor in water deeper than 16-20'?


thataway":1ginnv3c said:
Yes the worm gears hold the line--just as the worm gears will hold a 14,000 Lb boat on my boat lift. (7,000 per side way more than any anchor will hold.

Back to shock absorbing: how are you going to manage that?

I had a Danforth HT 12 with 300 feet of 3/8" nylon double braid. I have also had some 3/8 inch sheets and halyards on my racing sailboats. No problem, although I tend to wear gloves with using the smaller lines, or lines which might run fast for some reason. Winches take the ultimate load with the sheets and halyards.
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If you are going to use the drum winch, then the synthetic line with chafe guard, and heavy chain or Kellet for shock absorption. This is sub optimal but may the best if that is the way our go.

With thousands of nights a anchor all over the World, I have never felt the need for a reel or drum rode. The problem is that it is very difficult to add more line for those times you have to anchor in deeper water. I have only done about half of the loop give or take--not the Hudson River to Illinois river--and the Tenn-Tom Bigbee water water. There are going to be few anchorages deeper than 20 feet on the ICW's and most rivers, but I suspect as you get up into the upper waters in Canada etc there will be deeper anchorages. One of the advantages of the C Dory is getting in close to shoal areas, but There may be that unusual anchorage. However I don't feel that you should limit yourself that much--there may be other places you want to go.

In the PNW and Channel Islands there will be many harbors which are deeper than 20 or so feet. The deepest I have consistently anchored in, is slightly over 100 feet--and that was with 200 feet of G4 chain, and 400 feet of nylon rode. The heaviest winds I have anchored in were about 90 knots. That is a wind you cannot stand up against. There have been nights I have put out 3 different types of anchor--and what had been holding when I set the anchors, was not necessarilly holding the next morning. When in heavy winds, we always have a person up and watching for our boat dragging or other boats dragging into our boat- or anchoring gear. It is not unusual, fot a boat which had anchored to weather of you, to drag over your anchor rode and trip your main anchor so now both of you are adrift. I have had that happen with C Dorys, on the St. Johns river.

Solution: wake the occupants of the other boat up--and disengage your anchor--go and re-anchor some where else. Just because you have good anchoring gear and technique does not mean that other boats do. I like some anchor like a Spade, Mantus, Valcun, etc. A large Danforth/Fortress type, for low cohesive mud and sand, Finally a fluke type of anchor (fisherman or Northhill pattern for grass or kelp where you have to get thru the grass into the bottom. I carried all 3 of these types on the bow ready to deploy in our long distance cruisng motor sailers. Each had a separate rode--the main rode was mostly chain--at least 150 to 200 feet and on a combination windlass chain wheel/gypsy. The others had short chains--no more than 30 or so feet--some less, and used a secondary windless, winch or capstan to bring the anchor up.
 
The owner of the G-1 Land Star winch said that he has sold many to halibut fishermen and they often fish while anchored in 2-300'. They use 4mm or 6mm Dyeema type line. For this deeper water they add a 600' piece on. At the end there is 25' of 8 or 10 mm piece of nylon which is for abrasion and then 20 or more feet of chain onwards to the anchor. Ironic. After Looping I will spend most of my time from Albany south and east in shallow water mostly.
I'm learning...
 
Some great discussion/information here certainly to consider.

For me its ease of use anchoring multiple spots in a day between overnighting and various fishing locations. Often in cool, wet weather.

For halibut fishing I currently use a set up with a quick release line from bow to the release at a stern cleat so I can get off the hook in a hurry if need be. I utilize a buoy and rings for retrieval and to reconnect.

So maybe a drum isn't worth it.

More thought the drum would be handy when jigging and moving around various places lots but again, I've given a lot of consideration to 'spot lock' capable motors for this purpose. Easier than carrying different hooks for changing bottoms.

More to think about.
 
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