Anchor choice

[colbysmith]

Thanks John, But I have the old crusty looking 22 lb Claw that came with the boat. And unless it does a better job than the Delta, I'll probably pull it back off when I get back home, if not sooner, and then likely get rid of it. Colby

 

[hardee]

Thanks John, But I have the old crusty looking 22 lb Claw that came with the boat. And unless it does a better job than the Delta, I'll probably pull it back off when I get back home, if not sooner, and then likely get rid of it. Colby

Colby,l I had a friend who had a old Bruce nock off with a bent shaft who took it out of service and put it into the front yard as "Yard art", but after so many people asked him what it was, he decided it didn't work there (either), so it went to a scrap metal recycler. :roll:

I did use a similar anchor on my last sailboat for several years, but it was mostly just a lunch hook there.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[real550A]

The key to a claw type anchor is to have enough chain, so it doesn't "lift" when the boat pulls. Keep the eye of the anchor down, and the claw digs deeper. If the eye lifts off the bottom, the claw will drag parallel, thus not setting itself.
I have held well an Albin 27 with a 22lb Bruce in 30-35mph winds, and slept well also.

 

[thataway]

The key to a claw type anchor is to have enough chain, so it doesn't "lift" when the boat pulls. Keep the eye of the anchor down, and the claw digs deeper. If the eye lifts off the bottom, the claw will drag parallel, thus not setting itself.
I have held well an Albin 27 with a 22lb Bruce in 30-35mph winds, and slept well also.

The chain will alway "lift" as the wind increases. At about 40 knots of breeze, the chain will become bar tight. Depends on the type of boat, air profile, and a host of other factors. If you were in 30 to 35 m p H winds, the chain would be off the bottom, and with little catenary. The weight/size of chain makes a difference.
'There are too many factors with chain to make it simple. Earl Heinz consulted with me on the more modern anchors in the last edition of his book on anchoring. I had done a number of tests with the modern anchors at that tune,

For comparison the Danfroth 70lb and 70 CQR set and held in 90 knots of wind, off Pt. St Helena Costa Rico in a sheltered cove.. The CQR had 160 feet of 3/4 inch High Test chain, and the Danforth has 50 feet of 3/4" High Test Chain. Again, lots of issues with proper acirubg,

For us, a 22lb "Bruce" Was taken abeam, to use as an anchor to pull our 65,000 lb, 62' Ketch off a dock. We dropped it out multiple times, and each time it was winched home, We could not get it to set in 8 attempts. The scope was> about 10:1. I set a 12 Lb HT Danforth. It set on the first deployment and allowed us to pull the boat off the dock. Chain was 50 feet of 5/16 on both anchors. (Used the same rode for both anchors" The cobble stone anchorages occasionally found in the PNW seem to be best handled by the Bruce. The Bruce or Claw is rarely used on the East Coast, and especially in Florida. Anchors are sometimes like Religion...

 

[real550A]

My experience with the Albin was actually on the north end of Lake Worth, near W. Palm Beach, FL. with a strong south wind.
Of course, the weight of the anchor and size of the chain makes a huge difference, I agree.
My Key West 2020WA dragged an 11lb Danforth all night, last winter in Islamorada. I switched to an 8kg Bruce, and she set quickly and holds well.
Yes, like religion is an accurate statement!

 

[thataway]

My Key West 2020WA dragged an 11lb Danforth all night, last winter in Islamorada. I switched to an 8kg Bruce, and she set quickly and holds well.
Yes, like religion is an accurate statement!

What was the bottom condition?

"Danforth" has become almost a generic term. The majority of "Danforths" are not. a genuine Danforth. Even among the real Danforths. there is only one I use; that is the high test model. The are in the sizes: 5h 12h 20h 35h 60h 90h 150h & 190h. The high tensile have a "T" forged on the inner side of the fluke not the bent sheet metal, which most copies or cheaper Danforth have. The outer edges of the flukes are sharpened
the shanks are high tensile steel as is the rest of the anchor. The Fortress anchor is very similar but out of a high tensile aluminum.

MY 40# & 70# were WWII surplus anchors. During WW II Danforth anchors were used to winch landing craft out of shoal waters. I still have one of those anchors.

Note in my post I identified the 12# as

12 Lb HT Danforth

real550A identified his 2 anchors as "BRUCE", but also used the term "claw type anchor " which suggests that he knows that not all, and currently' claws are NOT BRUCES. I suspect that the claw type have a similar problem as the Danforths with copies.

Currently Danforth does not make a 11lb anchor. there are some knock offs such as Hooker who make badly shaped anchors which are called "Danforth". There a 316 SS 11# which some label "Danforth". That is very expensive & believe made in China.

Anchor tests are confusing, and some of the newer tests show real performance: Steve's (Panope) tests. About 20. years ago I was giving some of the anchoring lectures at West Marine Trawler Fest. There there were less and inferior anchor tests, One of the best anchors was sort of a claw type. That was the Super Max. IT was hard to stow and expensive. The SUPERMAX is being made on a limited basis.

When we were doing long distance cruising we carried three primary anchors: 70# genuine CQR plow. 70# Danforth, and a hand foraged "Fisherman" 70 #. all carried with chain & rodes attached on the bow sprit (62 foot pilothouse ketch.). We had duplicates of the plow and Danforth. We also carried a 12# & 20# HT Danforths, (lunch kedge and stern anchors) plus a 150 LB Hershoff storm anchor (in the bilge which broke down into three 50lb pieces. with 50 ' of 1/2 " chain & 300 feet of one inch nylon 3 strand rode. [/b]

 

[real550A]

Thank you for your informed response, Bob. As always, your experience speaks volumes.
Mine is limited to my Albin 27FC, and current Key West 2020, so we're definitely in different worlds as far as anchoring, 62 footer? Wow!
I'm currently on the hunt for a C Dory 22 Cruiser, so studying other's experiences with owning and operating these fine models.
My cruising is mainly SE Florida and Keys, with the Gulf and islands occasionally. Mostly sand bottoms, and under 30' anchoring.

 

[thataway]

Thank you for the kind words. Larger boats are actually easer to anchor safely. The platform is much more stable.

At another skill level is docking or anchoring weighing / anchoring under sail without an engine. No windless control at either helm station. Anchoring under sail alone is something I have practiced, with every sailboat I have owned. Better to know how the boat handles under sail.than trying your plan without practice in an emergency. A ketch with roller furling makes anchoring under sail easier.

That boat had a 24 volt windlass with a chain wheel on one side and rope capstan on the other which I installed. There was second windless with a chain wheel plus a rope capstan on each side. the engine for this second windless was human powered. There were 6 foot long SS levers (pipes) for each side. That Windless was all bronze castings; shadows of a windless one would find on an 19th century sailing ship.
Each windlass had a separate deck pipe and its own compartment in the anchor locker accessible from the foreward stateroom. there was a scuttle to this cabin from deck a short distance aft of the windless for quick entrance to the anchor locker.

 

[real550A]

Sounds like a most interesting vessel and experience! I'm sure you got plenty of laughs and grey hairs during that period.
I was a deckhand, off and on, on Mississippi river towboats and work barges. Have some experience handling 3" lines, and working river traffic.
The intercoastal in SE FL. is my training grounds now that I'm retired. I love the pace and constant learning curve. Mike

 

[thataway]

Bless the tugs and commercial craft. I grew up on the weekends on the water front of San Pedro, CA, There was an active tuna fleet (Portuguese and Italian)I loved the old wooden boats. We also had a number of tramp type of steamers, and talked to the crew.

One of my friends was skipper of tugs for Cowley in Valdez (they lost the contract to an indigenous group a few years back) He was running tugs towing barges all along the West coast. His last few years he was mostly the skipper on the 130' Tug "Alert" (almost 11,000 HP.) doing escort service to tankers out of Valdez.

Before that he was mostly doing the runs from Seattle towing barges to various ports in AK. Another friend had her master's papers, but was getting more sea time working as the cook! Strange regulations!! Being cook qualifies for sea time as a master of a vessel with 1,000 ton displacement.

 

[Donald Tyson]

From outside of this discussion I wanted to say that I thoroughly enjoyed all the comparisons and opinions listed.
I'll never have a heavy boat. But I've had some old Pearson Sloops and so I know how to use winches and blocks to do some marvelous things like pulling the boat out of Chesapeake muck or rescuing others while I anchor off a ways.
When I select an anchor someday for much smaller boats I'll refer to these posts and apply this knowledge in miniature.

Just as historical note, capstan winches were used for many things beyond boats. I've used them in the field of Arboriculture to drag logs out of the woods. But the flour mill up the street from me has used a giant capstan for nearly 100yrs +/- to move empty and full train cars to and from the loading chutes. Its a gigantic old thing and I hope I get it if they ever re-build the old mill.

Thanks for sharing your experiences on this forum.

 

[thataway]

Just as historical note, capstan winches were used for many things beyond boats.

A friend owned an antebellum mansion which had been moved intact with a capstan winch powered by 4 donkeys in a village near Pensacola. As I remember it took over a month to go about half a mile. Think of the trees which to be cut down in this path. The house had been jacked up by hand to get the log rollers under the house. The capstan had to be moved a number of times.

This was a common practice up until the 1920's.

 

[Donald Tyson]

Like a Steam Donkey, moving itself along. Thats cool.

 

[thataway]

Yes. they used the donkeys to move the capstan, as they attached to a new set of trees. I don't know how often they had to reposition. I believe the capstan platform was on skids. My guess is that they "spudded" the platform down as well as securing to trees. There was a gradual slope from the river bank to the Main Street coming into town currently.

 

[Donald Tyson]

One of the things this post does not address with clarity, I'm not sure it is possible to do, is size of anchor per weight of boat.
As a Jersey Shore person I used an actual Danforth for all bottoms as long as the bottom was sand, lol. I love those anchors. I will always have one aboard somewhere. I'm learning that maybe a Ronca would be more universally capable than the Danforth, especially if the wind or current switches up on you.
I've read that too heavy an anchor may have challenges biting when on a light boat. I don't understand that but I've heard it. On the other have too small an anchor may bite just fine as it plows along.
The 22 CD I pan to get is sort of at the bottom of the list, for anchor size, I imagine. So would the 13 Ronca be enough?
For Danforth I'll have to check , but I believe I have the MD600.
Is there any need on the Loop for a Kedge or Rock anchor? Are there any anchorages with Solid rock bottoms? If so what anchors would be best?

 

[thataway]

The MD600. Danforth is a 9 lb sheet metal anchor. Danforth in the 12 lb HT or storm anchor of 20 lb is what I would suggest. Or the comparable in size Fortress.

The Ronca is a great anchor , but not perfect.

There are "coblstone" anchorage areas. These are medium rocks about 4 +/- diameter. I call them roller bearing anchorages. I have drug in several, where that was the only anchorage bottom. In those cases I have put to sea or moved In the middle of the night.

Yes there are solid rock, (Limestone, granite, etc, where there is not holding at ll.

There are several anchors which might be called Kedge and or rock anchor. Give us an example of what anchors you are thinking of.

I have usually used a danfrorth Anchor to kedge off when running aground.

Again---what kind of rocks?

The mantis, spade and SuperMax are all good anchors (including many others which are similar. Generally for the 22 C Dory I recommend a 14 lb anchor (+/-) and the 25 C Dory a 22 +/- anchor.

See above posts about anchors I used. I would no longer use a CQR (genuine) but use a Ronca or similar anchors, with several Fortress or Danforth of the comparable size. I would also love to carry in the bilge (Maybe) a superMax, for deep and low cohesion mud anchor--it is good for many more conditions, but hard to stow.

 

[Donald Tyson]

The MD600. Danforth is a 9 lb sheet metal anchor. Danforth in the 12 lb HT or storm anchor of 20 lb is what I would suggest. Or the comparable in size Fortress.

The Ronca is a great anchor , but not perfect.

There are several anchors which might be called Kedge and or rock anchor. Give us an example of what anchors you are thinking of.

I have no rocky anchorage experience and the whole Idea of anchoring in Rock or Coarse Rubble gives me the heebeejeebees. I had read years ago about people anchoring in poorly protected rock bottom anchorages in Scotland where the boat is being tossed pretty hard by the sea. In the case of this scenario they were still using old style kedge anchors.
So my real goal here is to ask and listen and travel prepared. I find these post enlightening. Prior to this my entire experience with anchoring had been Jersey, Rarity or Chessy...all sand or muck.

 

[thataway]

I still want to know what you consider a "Kedge anchor"?

from the Oxford Dictionary:

kedge:
noun: kedge anchor
a small anchor used to reposition a ship or boat by having the anchor's hawser hauled in

A Fisherman or Hershoff design are considered "Kedge anchors" by some. So is the "Navy type" Which is used on most large ships. These ships also lay out a long rode of all heavy chain.
I carried a Fisherman or Hershoff anchor, I still have the one from my Cal 46. Makes a great "lawn ornament".

Another anchor which I like is the Northill pattern. A variation of this is used on a lot of fishing, dive and other commercial boats. I have often carried one of these in SS. They were war surplus for the flying boats. These folded up to be a bit more compact.

 

[Donald Tyson]

Yes the Herscoff is one version of what I consider a Kedge

 

[thataway]

The best use of a Fisherman/Hershoff pattern anchor is in rooted grass. If the flukes and points of the fluke are sharpened so they cut thru the roots/and mat of top of the grass, They will work well. I had one foraged for me while ai watched. No welding, just a hand powered forge, to make all parts with large steel mallets, cold steel to drive thru a flattened shank, rather than a drill. The anchor was crude, but a work of art. I used It mostly in the Med.

Please remember that it is not best practice to anchor in sea grass. In some places you can be arrested, and a steep fine levied.

There is one other instance of using a Herreshoff design was after a hurricane, I had to recover the anchors of a close friend (who had been badly burned by a faulty seal on one of the portable stores gasket sealing between the cartage and the stove failing)

He had several plows and a Herreshoff anchor deployed. The Herreshoff worked its way thru self mud, sand and into dense material way under the surface. Even with a 3 speed cockpit winch (and snatch blocks) I had difficulty getting that anchor up. I had to use boat's engine circling around the anchor, With full up ward pressure with the 3 speed cockpit winch. I was putting about3500 lbs pulling force to break this anchor out.

I don't see the use of a Herreshoff or similar design on a C Dory. The Northill, especially the smaller version of SS aircraft use design, I have carried in C Dorys, and I have one in my Caracal currently.

The Herreshoff anchor: