25 Cruiser questions

J

John T

New member
Hi all,
My wife and I are interested in a C-Dory 25 Cruiser as a possible next boat for cruising Puget Sound, the San Juan and Gulf Islands, Desolation Sound, Princess Louisa, and north to the Broughtons. We love the look, basic but comfortable accommodations, fuel efficiency, simplicity, outboard power, and shallow draft. However, I have some concerns. Can anyone help me with the following?
1. With their flat bottoms, these boats are said to pound badly in a chop. Everyone says, "Just slow down" (something I've been told before and had trouble learning). How slow? For every boat wake and tide rip? How big of a problem is this?
2. Are they strong? I just don't know what to think of the absence of a conventional stringer system. Has anyone had or heard of cracked hulls or gelcoat?
3. Balsa coring concerns me with regard to wicking in the event of water intrusion. Has this been a problem for anyone? I recognize its superiority in terms of strength to weight. It's wicking that concerns me.
4. How is the quality of the boats coming out of the NMI Bellingham plant?
Thanks for your help,
John
 
The C Dory will take more than you can. We spent about 90 days in the PNW AK and Broughtons) and out of that there were only a couple of days we didn't run--and that was when nothing was running.

You do have to slow down--the boats being to plane at 10 to 12 knots. You put the bow down, with trim tabs and a permatrim. One advantage is the ability to run multiple passes in a day, because of the speed, and the ability of the boat to "dance" over the turbulence in the passes. We had a Cal 46 in the PNW for 4 + years, and could only do one pass a day--with the C Dory 3 to 4 passes a day.

The bottom is very strong: think Monocoque construction, with thick skins on bottom and top. There have been two boats (I don't think either were 25's ) which had some issues with delimitation. Theses were eventually replaced by the factory. There have been very few cases of water in the core--it is caused by the practice of putting screws into the core, without sealing that area off with epoxy. Again--very rare in the 25 if never (?) in the 25, because they have a cockpit floor, with a semi grid system around the fuel tank. No reason to put screws into the bottom of the hull. I know of several out of over 1000 in a moderate amount of hull had to be replaced in the cockpit--but not in 25's. Balsa core is end grain, and due to the cell structure, water migration is slow when it occurs.

Many of the newer boats are foam cored.

The current builder seems to be building extremely good hulls. Quality control is excellent, and these people have decades of experience in building the Sea Sport.

I have owned 4 C Dorys, over the last 12+ years. One was a project restoration of a 25 which had been badly abused. It was left out in the snow/weather for 3 winters in New Jersey. The major issue was in the cockpit floor, due to lack of sealing of the areas around the hatches. There were no serious issues with the boat's hull. The transom, and bracing had several minor issues, which were easily fixed. I felt that the boat had been pounded excessively--to the point where the forward V berth had some tabbing come loose--absolutely no damage to the hull itself.

I would have no reservation buying a current build C Dory.
 
Thank you Bob, that's very helpful. Your experience with the construction of these boats is exactly what I lack. Much appreciated. John
 
We have had a CD25 Cruiser since 2005, and had a CD22 for two years before that. In 2006, I cruised the CD25 from Blaine to Ketchikan, and we have cruised it all over the San Juans, Gulf Islands and Strait of Georgia every year we have owned it. We have towed it to Lake Powell four times, and plan to do that again this year. You do NOT need to worry about handling characteristics, as Dr. Bob said, sometimes you do need to slow down, but that is relative to the "go fast" boats that slam through everything at 30 knots. "Slowing down" to us usually means under 12 knots, and you should not have any problems. The CD25 is a GREAT NW Cruising boat.

Last year, we discovered a 25 cent piece sized hole in the hull, possible the result of a grounding the year before. The repair guys (Sterling Kayaks and Fiberglass Repair in Bellingham, GREAT folks) opened up the bottom, and found the water intrusion was confined to less than a 2' by 2' area. They replaced the balsa core and glassed it in, and we are confident it is as good as new now.

Plus, a word for the Wrights (NMI) - they have been boat builders for many, many years, having built all the SeaSports every built. Their C-Dorys, I am confident, are the best that have ever been built. Come to Bellingham is Back II in August, we will probably have another factory tour like we did last year, with Ron Wright (the Dad) or Mark Wright (the son) and Greg Little, the production manager.
 
Our 25 had twin 90s on the back and was pretty stern heavy as a result. We could plane as low as 13 knots but the real bonus was being able to cruise at 17-22 knots regularly. Ours had trim tabs and permatrims on the motors and crossing normal wakes and pushing wind waves up to 2ft did not slow us down at all. Once the waves reach 2-3ft, depending on direction, slowing down to lower planing speeds will help with the pounding that begins to start and past the 3ft mark and running into the waves, you will need to throttle back closer to 5-7 knots. An interesting note: When the waves are beyond 3ft and not directly on the nose, we can actually carry more speed in our current 19 than I could in the 25. This is because the 19 will stay on plane down to about 10 knots and allow us to run 10-12 with a short hull bobbing smoothly up and down while the longer 25 had to come down to non-planning speeds to avoid pounding the longer hull at the slightly higher planing speeds. I was pleasantly surprised to say the least and it has allowed us to make some good time through some nasty waters.

I have looked pretty closely at the currently built boats and can say they are even more solidly built than the older models from other build groups.

Greg
 
We love our 25! All the things that the others have said and more.

We owned a 22 for 5 years and it was hard selling that boat with so many fishing and cruising trips. Would our 2006 measure up? You bet it has!

-Love the space, storage is everything on a boat.
-The width, an extra foot over the 22 is awesome, much more comfortable and the cabin height inside, 6'10" is great.
-Stand up head and shower, well worth the extra price and we use ours for hanging coats and there is some storage there, too when not being used for its design.
-Cruises through chop much better with added hull weight.
-Really good visibility all around.
-Fuel usage around 2.5 mpg, but with a 107 gallon tank, you have the range.
-Not only cruising, but fishing, crabbing and shrimping.
 
The 25 is built to take it. We cruised ours for up to 6 months at a time; never went looking for bad conditions, but they occasionally found us. The boat can handle conditions that I wouldn't want to be in.

When people say "slow down," it is a matter of conditions (and perspective). In really ugly stuff, 5+ foot waves, closely spaced, and confused, we had to slow to 5 to 6 knots. Any deep-v boats were down to that same speed, and getting a worse ride than we were.

I don't like pounding. If the CD-25 is pounding, you are going too fast for the conditions. In most circumstances, you can trim the bow down and keep your speed up. We rarely ran ours above 20 knots... seemed our sweet spots were 6 knots (when enjoying the scenery or extending our range) or 16 knots when we wanted to get somewhere.

These are not go-fast, 40 mph boats under any conditions. The bottom is designed for efficiency and comfort... a smart operator takes advantage of those attributes. At slower speeds or at anchor, they are more comfortable than similar hull length deep-v boats. It is the "right tool for the job," if your intent is cruising. If you need to run offshore 60 miles to fish and plan to get back in two hours, this is the wrong boat. Anchor in shallows where most boats can't go. Trailer it anywhere without permits (with the right tow vehicle).

Some call the interiors "spartan," again, I find them to be efficient.

Good luck with your search.
 
JOHN T

I have a 2013 26 Venture, twin Honda 90's and have been in Great Lakes,
Chesapeake, and coastal cruising as far south as Key West.

If your are concerned about balsa coring, move up to a 26 Venture and
you'll get a foam core. I've had balsa cored boats previously for years
and never experienced a problem with blisters or water penetration.
But I believe good Interprotect 2000 base coats before bottom painting
may have a lot of good to offer any soundly built hull.

I mostly agree with others comments except I don't believe permatrims
are needed as the engine trim and trim tabs are adequate.

As far as being a "rough water" boat, it isn't. And depends on your
definition of what you mean as rough.

In my opinion, if there is anything inadequate in this little well built boat
it is lack of freeboard. In a head sea, over 3', I think it takes too much
water over the bow with being properly trimmed out and appropriate
reduced speed and tends to pound. No chance to get "on top" with hull
being basically flat astern and minimally "V'd" forward. Then there's wave
period to consider between salt and fresh water.

Bottom line is it depends on how you want to use the boat and where you
want to go.
Aye.
 
I've had water over the bow a number of times (into the waves and wind on the Great Lakes and the Chesapeake). It didn't seem to be any bother. The boat sheds the water quickly. With the closed bow and the enclosed cabin, you stay nice an dry.
 
I have never "stuffed" the bow, and have been in some really rough water. Yes you get spray in rough water. Haven't owned a Venture/CC 26, but ridden on several. They may be more susceptible? The C Dory 25 is like a cork.
 
I own a 22 Cruiser. I have ridden in a 25 a (very) few times but enough to realize the HUGE expansive difference. With that extra volume, comes more weight, and more buoyancy. That would equate to more stability and smoother ride than a 22.

I have had several occasions where the bow has “Stuffed” into the next wave. Not the ride I planned, but never scary. It sheds that water fast, and if (and it should always be) the fore hatch and center window are closed, there should be no water intrusion. Believe me, the first time was a real thrill (not necessarily in a good way) to have green water up over the dog house and nearly to the forward windshield, but it recovered my screw-up and we all survived. That one was the deepest. After that I have buried the bow a few more times, but never over that curved step on the foredeck.

To be REALLY CLEAR. I don’t go looking for those experiences. I have been in 4-6 foot waves crossing Juan de Fuca on one occasion and 3-5 on several. Yes you have to slow, to 4-5 knots, but it does float like a cork. With a beam sea you do the “jog and slog” and watch and dodge the white caps.

The 25 should handle 2-3 foot on the nose with ease and more if you can.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

0_CD_Cover_SlpyC_with_Classics_MBSP_2009_288.thumb.jpg
 
One of the former owns must had hammered this boat because the seams at the bottom on both sides of the helm bulkhead broke away across the bottom and up the side, on the port side this continued up into the V-birth about 2 feet.

When I bought the boat I didn’t know what to look for, discovered problem about a year later. Also, on the forward side of the head bulkhead under the galley cabinets the same happened; the seam broke away from the floor.

I noticed the head bulkhead while under way, the counter top would move independently of the bulkhead. At first I didn’t give it much thought but on further inspection found most of the corner brackets were either pulled loose or broke.

All damaged areas have been repaired, good as new or better.

If a fiberglass seam is going to fail it will most likely be along the horizontal surface. Much like if you pull back on a strip of tape it hold sold, but when you pull up and away it releases.

All I can surmise is one of the previous owners hammering the boat really hard in chop and/or in addition the factory did a lousy job laying down the fiberglass.

Unfortunately the 25 will pound hard in chop if you push her too hard, even more than the 22. I had no problem getting bow down on my 22 but the 25 is stern heavy with fuel/water/motor/etc. Even with a Permatrim and trim tabs I hit a point with about 3 foot chop where I have to drop back to about 10-12 knots.

On the flip side, when I’m low on fuel and water I’m able to bow into the chop and make about 16-18 knots; the downside is you suffer fuel economy.

Just keep in mind these boat are not indestructible if abused by their owners. If you’re willing to pay the fuel bill and want a smooth fast ride in heavy chop a SeaSport of Osprey may be a better choice.

Don't get me wrong, I love the C dory brand and their boats.
 
An observation on "Slowing Down"

On your CD you will not be able to run as quickly through moderate seas and chop as a deep V will be able to do comfortably. Because of the LOW PLANING SPEED, however, you will be able to run much more efficiently and quickly through the really really big waves where everyone has to slow down. In these highly adverse conditions a CD 22 or 25 will outperform a similarly sized deep V.

Here is the situation where this occurs:

You have exceeded your desire to run your boat in the 12' seas you find yourself pounding into, have taken water over the bow, and are going to come about and try to make it back home and when you are finally running with the waves you find that you need to run at around 9 mph to maintain a position between two waves. In a CD you will be running nearly on plane, with just a slight rise to your bow, which is about as ideal as it could get for heavy following seas. Your boat is easily controlled, you can see in front of you unobstructed, and you have an easy ride home.

Trade that CD for a deep v and come about in 12' seas, then have to maintain 9mph: Your bow is stuck up in the air because your boat doesn't plane until it gets to around 20mph, so you can't see. On top of that you can't control the boat well because it is plowing like crazy between planing and displacement speed. Add to that the crazy rate of fuel consumption running the boat like this (do you now have enough to get home???) It just won't do as well in truly terrible conditions.

Now in moderate waves and heavy chop, you will be able to run at 35mph, and the CD will be below 20, but you will likely be using 2x the fuel (or worse) to do so, and when you finally get your anchor out and start fishing, you get free chum because the boat is rocking side to side so much.

I boat in about the choppiest water around, and picking a CD was one of the easiest decisions I've made. The few times the boat has been put to the test it has performed beyond what I thought possible for a boat so small. Pound for pound, these are the most seaworthy pleasure boats available today.

If your time is tight, and you only have a couple hours after work to enjoy the water, a speedy deep v is the right choice. If you have the option to do it any other way, the CD deal is pretty darn good.
 
If you're going new these guys build awesome boats. My 2011, 22 is absolutely rigid, always a well built design but the last few years have been really semi custom boats. The 25 is bigger all over than the 22 and those that own them love them. Jump on in, we need to slow to 12 knots in lumps also, that's still 3 times faster than sailing upwind! If you want 30 knots into 5 footers, wrong boat. Cruising at 6-18 knots is a nice life enjoy the quest
George
 
This has been extremely helpful, thank you all so much! I loved reading about how and where you use your boats...Pretty amazing! Many of you boat in the exact waters in which my wife and I do, so that was fun to read. I feel satisfied re coring and construction after reading what has been shared here. And re slowing down in a chop, well, clearly you have to, a lot. I'm hoping to tour the factory next Monday; awaiting a call back from Greg, the production mgr. That's where I grew up and where my early working years were spent (at the old Uniflite factory). Waypoint Marine in Seattle has a sold 25 which I've seen. The owner has given them permission to show it, and I'm hoping my wife can see it on Tuesday. Such a fun lifetime addiction! Again, thank you.
Oh, one other question (for the moment). It sounds like C-Dories can be squirrelly or unweildy in some way at higher speeds even on flat water. What might a 25 do with a Honda 200? Would it cruise at 25-30 knots?
John
 
John
My 2011 CD-25 with a 200 HP Yamaha HPDI 2 cycle will easily cruise at 25 to 30 MPH. It will top out at over 40 MPH at WOT. It starts getting a little squirrelly at 37 or so. This is all with a light chop and a good load. I seldom go over 25 as most of my C-dory friends can not keep up. However....I do burn more fuel than they do! Actually at about 30 I get 2.5 mpg on the fuel flow meter and at 25 I burn 2.3. Go figure?

I had a 22 for about 5 years and it was a great boat. But my wife sure loves "her 25". Good luck on your search.......Tom
 
Journey On has a Honda 150. The fuel flow meter shows 2 MPG at 17 knts in fairly calm water. That's cruising over to Santa Cruz Isle.

The 25 is sensitive to weight. Lightly loaded, I can see 25 knts in south San Diego Bay in really smooth water. I didn't want to go any faster because the boat is rattling and banging.

If you get a 25, and I hope you do, don't expect too much in the way of MPG and top speed.

Boris
 
What Boris says about weight sensitive is very important. I run boats heavy when we are cruising, and light when not. There is a real difference, in both speed, and mileage--plus ride to some extent.

I would not be adverse to buying a C Dory 25 with a 200 hp. There was one with a 200 Suzuki in Dec--not clear if it has sold. The reason I would like a 200 is to have a good cruise speed when heavily loaded at Lake Powell (3700 feet elevation). I drove a 25 with 150 HP and fairly well loaded this summer for 50 miles at Powell. The 150 was plenty of power, with a top speed in the lower 20's. With 200 HP I would have expected the top speed in the high 20's. (Loaded boat, 3700' elevation. )
 
Back
Top