25' C-Dory Sedan vs TomCat

We bought our Tomcat last year after several years of decision making, or as I like to call it, between boats. Despite the higher initial costs and ongoing expenses, I feel we will save money in the long run by making this the last boat we will ever buy. After one year of ownership we still have that feeling of owning a new boat every time we set foot on it.
 
I went through the exact same decision three seasons ago. I started a thread back then discussing my observations based on test rides in the same conditions.

Without repeating much of what has been written above, the biggest thing for me was the ride. I made sure my wife and a dive buddy were with me to test drive. After cruising in 1' white capping chop my wife turned to me and said "this one feels like our current boat". We returned to the dock and got in the Tomcat to test the ride in the exact same seas. Within minutes our decision was made. I wanted my next boat to provide a totally different ride - I was sick of pounding in seas. The Tomcat fulfilled that requirement.

Now - every vessel has their limits. I find it depends on the loading...if I'm loaded light I can cruise at my usual speed of 22 knots in real 3' seas. If I'm loaded with 4 divers with equipment and a lot of fuel it's more like 2' seas at those speeds. This is still considerable! Beyond this the wing deck will slam. With a short period and larger seas I have to slow down and/or quarter off the waves. There is a point when I too have to slug it out off plane and get beat up. In these conditions I think the C25 would be better. Anything short of that and the Tomcat wins hands down.

Good luck with your research.
 
Having cruised with Brent and Dixie (they have a TC255) while we were in our CD-25, they are very different boats. The cabins appear similar, but that's where the similarities end.

When we bought our boat, the TC255 was recently released. We got to see all the C-Dory models at the 2006 Seattle Boat Show. We went into this thinking we wanted a 22, but quickly saw the 25 was a better fit for us. We looked briefly at the TC255, but it was about $40k more and would have required a bigger tow vehicle. As it turns out, our 1 ton van was not a good match for the CD-25 and we wound up buying a diesel pickup before taking delivery of the boat.

The TC has a lot more storage than the CD-25, due to the sponsons. If traveling fast is a priority, the TC absolutely is the way to go. For ease of loading/unloading from the trailer, the CD-25 is a piece of cake. For putting along at displacement speed, with the occasional run up to 20 knots, the CD-25 is our choice. When out cruising, we spend a lot of nights at anchor - the 25 is "quieter" than the TC at anchor, where you get a slap on the bridgedeck with the TC - that wasn't a consideration for us when making our buying decision, because we didn't know that at the time. And this is purely subjective: we like the looks of the 25.

Knowing what we now know, the CD-25 would again be our choice if we were buying today. Hindsight is sure easier for those buying decisions. :wink: They are both great boats; decide how you will use it, and it will help make the decisions. It was fun cruising together with the two boats; gave us an interesting perspective.

Good luck with your decisions.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
I still am not sure of what model C-Dory is best for me, or if I should get a C-Dory, or if I should get even get another boat. But I sure am impressed with the knowledge and willingness to share it on this forum. To me, that says a lot for the boats. If everyone was not really sold on C-Dory vessels and very proud of them, this forum would not be as effective as it is.

Anyway, I have read and reread all of the info and tried different links and I now have a much better understanding of the different models. I should get in to a few of them without a doubt and "feel" the different models in a sea trial. However, sometimes a deal comes along and you roll the dice.

A few questions (which probably have been addressed but I am still unsure of): Is there a notable difference between the TC and either the CD 25 or Venture 26 when maneuvering around marinas, docking in the wind, docking in general? My experience is that if a boat is difficult to handle under such conditions, you tend to use it less and go in fewer harbors etc. etc. And, it was mentioned and is obvious that the CD25 is easier to launch and put back on the trailer than the larger TC, can someone elaborate on this. I have never owned nor used a cat, and it looks awfully huge and cumbersome (sorry if that offends anyone) on the trailer --- if it is windy with some chop is it a pain to put on a trailer. My experience is that the deeper the V of the hull the easier this maneuver is as the boat centers itself easily -- that may be the case with with the cat if the trailer is set up to do so -- help me understand this. And lastly, if you really get stuck in significant seas/wind waves, is the TC trickier to handle properly -- or will both boats do well assuming you slow down and don't do stupid things?

I have a tow vehicle that will handle either boat and I can afford either boat. So far the logic leans toward the TC, but damn that CD-25 or Venture 26 sure seems ideal to take my grandkids out to get a few crabs or a couple of salmon. But again if the fish are 20+ miles from the dock there could be considerable time differences between the running time for the two models. This isn't rocket science but pretty close to it.

Thanks again for your great assistance, Ed
 
Charlie, I was not clear with that statement. I meant that the from a classic nautical sense the traditional look and feel of the CD25 and it being more user friendly to launch etc. seems like a nice platform for gunk holing or however you describe just casual boating and hanging out with the kids (and limited other help). That probably comes from my mental perception of what a boat should look like -- I am very familiar with mono hull operation, launching etc. The cats are a new world to me (the old dog would have to learn new tricks) but that might not be an issue. In summary, my perception only.
 
******
Once my First Mate put her foot on the stable TomCat,
took it out for a ride on a good chop........

........IT WAS A NO BRAINIER...........

the TC was the only way she would go........

........decision made!!!!!!

We are both happier today with Lady KC than that first day we were first acquainted with the TomCat............

***
 
Ed,

The widely spaced engines on the TC, make it a dream to maneuver around a dock. The centering device on a TC trailer is in the tunnel and it self centers as you power forward onto the trailer.

I just started my eighth decade and would hate to go back to maneuvering a single engine monohull. A royal pain IMHO. Any chance of your taking a trip to Friday Harbor around May 13-14? I bet you could get a ride on one of each :wink:

Roger
 
Let me tackle the launching issue--I have single handled launched both boats, mostly behind a diesel truck--but also the 25 behind a 30 foot RV, and down some long ramps--which attracted a crowd!

The C Dory 25 sits a few inches lower on the trailer and can be easier launch at very low slope ramps (example Lake Powell)--but in steep ramps (most in the PNW and Calif), this is not a problem The Tom Cat, because of the hulls width has to sit on top of the fenders--and I have 16" tires (a bit oversized perhaps--and you can get it a few inches lower with tripple axel trailer. I found that the C Dory 25 was actually harder to center--because it sat between the fenders and there was only about an inch and a half clearance on each side. I didn't have side guides, but did have the aluminum pipes with PVC guide ons, which will give.

The Tom Cat trailers have bunks in the center, which helps to center the hull (see photo in thataway album, so It self centers. We launch and retrieve our Caracal, which has slightly less beam, and is lower, and has both side bunks and center bunks on a dirt ramp with ease, so it is not the hull form.

As for handling--I think that the cat hull is easier. The reason is that both hulls act as keels and the wind has far less effect. Also you have counter rotating outboards set widely apart, which give great turning torque. So the Tom Cat is very easy to maneuver. The C Dory 25 has no real keel, and tends to pivot in the outboard, thus is more affected by the windage. In the water the windage is not a lot different between the two boats. I have never hesitated to take either boat into "tight" spaces. But the nod goes to the Tom Cat.

Draft--perhaps you can take the 25 in slightly less depth of water. I routinely take the Tom Cat out in 16" to 18" of water over a sand bar in our winter low tides--I suspect that you might get the 25 or venture in 14" (but you still need enough water to let the prop be effective and have good cooling water intake).

Rough weather--Some others may answer this better than I--but 3' chop is considerable. As far as big rollers, both boats handle this very well. I have had the Tom Cat in 2 1/2" chop and 4 foot rollers with no problems. If you get to real 4 foot steep seas, both boats will survive well, but be uncomfortable. The Tom Cat may have some "slam" under the wing. But the C Dory 25 will bury the bow. (I am thinking specifically of coming out of Cattle Pass in the San Juans, with a good breeze blowing waves into the pass and and ebb tide which will steepen up and confuse the seas.) Running in a a breaking bar, I would prefer to be in the Tom Cat, because the boat responds so rapidly and has good bouyancy forward.

Some cats will handle going into chop better than the Tom Cat--and these are the semi displacement boats. (Glacier Bay and World Cat) But their top speed is limited, there is more sneeze, and there are some major problems down wind/seas which the Tom Cat does not have.

One other advantage of the Tom Cat not mentioned is the wonderful aft bracket. This acts as a great swim step for kids or divers. There is a good "T" ladder, which can be easily used by divers with grab rails. The dinghy fits between the outboards for boarding--I think the Tom Cat is a much more kid friendly boat. Also the cockpit does not have the splash well, or any of the weakness associated with that. The cockpit is bigger in the Tom cat, because it does not have the intrusion of the splash well.

slicks_trailer_detail.sized.jpg
Note the bunks in the center of the trailer, that rest on the inside of the hulls. The slicks on the front of the trailer make launching and retrieving much easier.
IMG_0624.sized.jpg
Ignore the blue crate (that is what I put the generator fuel tank on)--look at the area for the entrance into the water from the platform on the Tom Cat.
 
Well it seems the TC has a lot to offer with little downside (other than cost and dealing with a larger package esp on the trailer). I noted someone mentioned a height with radar (I think) of 13' on the trailer. The highest door on my shop is 12', any other insight on height on trailer? I realize that is not a show stopper. I would like to get to Friday Harbor, have to think about that. Thanks again to all of you, Ed
 
Ed,

You'll be able to back the stern into your shop for engine maintenance but the top of the anchor light with the tall arch is 13'6". I have a 12'6" RV garage available to use at a friends but it's a no go :(

I can't imagine you not liking the TC. Have you looked through various TC owners photo albums?

 
We have the 24' TC after having had a 22' classic. The ride is very different. As was said above, once Penny (the first mate) experienced the ride we knew it was the right decision. The boat feels so much more stable than a monohull. And if I can maneuver the boat in tight quarters, then anyone can!
 
edc":3ddccqk0 said:
Well it seems the TC has a lot to offer with little downside (other than cost and dealing with a larger package esp on the trailer). I noted someone mentioned a height with radar (I think) of 13' on the trailer. The highest door on my shop is 12', any other insight on height on trailer? I realize that is not a show stopper. I would like to get to Friday Harbor, have to think about that. Thanks again to all of you, Ed

Hi Ed,
It was me that measured 13' even from the road to the top of my GPS receiver. I was using a light bar mounted above my radar mount to hold the GPS receiver. The very tip of this otherwise incredibly strong mount has a 2" plastic threaded piece to hold the GPS receiver. After three seasons of sun this plastic piece broke off in seas. So I removed this light bar and mounted the GPS receiver directly onto the roof with a stainless steel mount. This lowered my trailer height by about 5" so I'm more like 12'7" to the top of my radome.

I never have help launching retrieving Napoleon and thus have to do it single handed. The guide on rails (same as Bob's if you look in my photo album) make it a snap. I also replaced about 6' of carpet on the front of the bunks with slicks and it's even easier to power on and off. The old timers at the yacht club love to watch everything and they definitely stop and stare when I am loading this 28' vessel solo and leave the ramp in about 10 minutes.
 
The height of the boat depends on the radar arch you buy. We had a garage that had a door that was 11' 11". I had a radar arch made that was shorter than the then available arch. The arch was made by "Railmakers" I think. The cost was the same as the normal short arch. It was a close fit, but the boat fit under the 11' 11" door header. We built a new house two years later, the new garage doors are 14' high.
 
I think the best thing to do is to stay at a Holiday Inn Express on your way to a C Brat gathering where there are many different boats of interest as possible present. Then you will be an expert before you get there and can make an informed decision . Oh yeah and this site helps too.
Marc
 
Dreamer said:
edc,

This will give you an idea of where the extra size is in a TC255, on the Left and a CD-25 on the Right.
Broughtons_2008061.jpg
You can probably guess which one I'd recommend :wink:
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Roger- slap you upside the head! You taking bad about yo cruising partner
Sea Pal. Shame on you. I need not mention that Dreamer sits very high in the saddle and catches lots of wind. Nor will I mention the cavern between to 2 hulls that induces a slap or so I have been told at anchor and that sprays the boats behind when it sneezes. Both good boats and Sea Pal likes cruising with Dreamer,Sea Pal did not know about Dreamers
single hull envy.

Sorry we will miss you all at Friday Harbor and at the other NW gatherings. Sea Pal, sitting low in the saddle, leaves on the May 10 for
Norfolk Va. to start the our Great Loop Adventure. God willing we will do it
in 2 years coming home in the winter for some R & R. You'll have a great
boating season and practice safe boating. Want to see you all when we get back.

Happy boating & calm seas

Bob
 
Hey Bob and Betsy,

Have a great time on your Great Loop excursion - we'll be looking forward to reading about it.

Best wishes from another CD-25 crew,
Jim & Joan
 
Pacificcoast101":3cl6njbr said:
We bought our Tomcat last year after several years of decision making, or as I like to call it, between boats. Despite the higher initial costs and ongoing expenses, I feel we will save money in the long run by making this the last boat we will ever buy. After one year of ownership we still have that feeling of owning a new boat every time we set foot on it.

Hello, looks like you are in SoCal with your Tomcat. How does it handle the SoCal waves and swells? We build a new C-Dory 23 a few years ago when we were keeping it in the San Juans. Then moved it to SoCal and hated it. Just not enough boat to safely navigate SoCal unless the conditions are prime.

We really want a new Helmsmen 38E. But, I still love the TomCat.
Obviously very different vessels.
 
We build a new C-Dory 23 a few years ago when we were keeping it in the San Juans. Then moved it to SoCal and hated it. Just not enough boat to safely navigate SoCal unless the conditions are prime.

I would like to address the monohull experience--My TC 255 experience in S. Calif. waters is limited, but I do know these waters very well. Over a 50 year period, and from Dana Point to Marina del Rey, (the majority from Alamitos Bay or Huntington Harbor) I have made hundreds, most likely over a thousands crossing to Catalina. The boats have been from a 12' inflatable, to 62' heavy displacement motor sailor Ketch. (I had both a CD 22 and a CD 25 we kept in S. Calif, and my son owns a CD 25 I had a lot of time in an 18' 'deep "V" (early Raymond Hunt design which was my fishing/diving and tender when I left larger boats at Catalina and commuted to the mainland), which could run at up 40 mph in calm waters. Most days, if you leave the mainland before 11 AM, you will have a reasonably comfortable trip to Catalina. The Tom Cat is no exception. As the Westerly winds build, by 1 PM there is enough chop to slow you down, and by late afternoon, it is going to be slow and wet.

The other factor is where you are coming from and going to. The Further East (~South as you would think) the more you are going into the channel chop. Conversely when you get up toward Marina Del Ray, the more the chop and seas are following (and better for both the Tom Cat and any of the C Dory boats).

The Tom Cat runs down waves (Rollers) better than many other Cats, which are the Semi displacement type of hull. However even from Santa Monica, I would not want to take a Tom Cat across the channel late in the day. Worse if you tried from Huntington Harbor or Newport.
 
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