16 vs 19 vs 22

W

wdr99

New member
Hi C-Folks,

My wife and I are interested in a C-Dory. And we're struggling with what size to get. I'm leaning towards a 19, maybe a 16, but that depends on the day.

We live on Lake Superior, and currently we sail only. We're just interested in covering more water, quicker. Here's the dilemma as I see it:

1. We want an easily trailerable boat, and the 22 seems to be a bit of a load at 4100 lbs or so. We love taking off at a moments notice and throwing the boat in for an afternoon. I've lived by the motto that boat use is inversely proportional to size (and complexity).

2. My wife wants confidence in the boat, and to her that means initial stability. Is the 16 a bit rolly, does our human ballast affect the lay of the boat a great deal?

3. We'd like the occasional day guest. Is the 16 comfortable for 3 to 4 adults out sightseeing in the bay for an afternoon?

4. Mostly we want to slow cruise the Apostles, the North Shore, Door County, etc. in reasonable comfort occasionally stringing together a handful of overnights.

5. We currently sail a Montgomery 15 and a Hobie Tandem Island, so I'm naturally inclined towards smaller boats. But I'm also not keen on being unnaturally cramped.

6. Is the factory making many 16s or 19s anymore, it seems like they specialize in the 22?

7. Also, I single-hand alot and I'm not wild about landing a 22 foot boat.

Thanks for your input!
Bill
 
Forget the 16. I have a 19 Angler but as the name says its more fishing than cruising. I would not put more than 3 people on my 19’ for fishing as it can get a little tight. If you are gonna have sometimes 4 people and do overnights and don’t plan on doing much fishing get the 22 cruiser. You can still fish the 22 if ya want. As far as weight the 22 specs say is is 1925 lbs. Not sure if that is with motor but either way I am guessing that boat, motor, fuel and gear you might be around 4,100 lbs but sure owners of the 22 will give you realistic numbers and advice. The 22 also has the closed back/cabin, sink, stove. The 19 has the open back/cabin unless you get the drop curtain which I have but never use. I like the open back but I use my boat mainly for fishin. You can get some pretty nice used 22’s. Check the boats for sale forum on this site. I have been on Lake Superior and I’m from Sacramento. That’s a big lake with big weather.

Good Luck!!
 
Hi Bill, welcome! Everyone has different tolerances and comfort levels. For me, 3 is a crowd in the 16, two is OK, and one person is perfect! It is a rolly boat especially when lightly loaded, but I enjoy that and am comfortable with it. Some people have added seating in the 16, like a bench seat in the rear, and for a slow cruise on a calm day it's probably fine with 3 or 4 as long as you aren't fishing. The 16 is one of the easiest trailered boats I've ever owned, and have gone out on moment's notice many times on the 16.

If you decide the 16 is too small and look at the 19 you might as well also consider a 22 Angler, they are essentially the same boat, the 19 with 3 feet cut off the stern, so not much weight savings for towing the 19, but if on-trailer storage is an issue (length of driveway or garage) then yes the 19 could be a perfect match for what you are looking for! The 22 cruiser is a bit heavier than the Angler, due to the galley, dinette, larger cabin/roof, etc. With all that said, I find the 22 cruiser tows quite nicely with a full size pickup. But certainly not as easily as the 16 which goes anywhere with a 4-cyl car rated for 2000 lbs.

I'd say if you are already sailing on a 15 footer you might actually be OK with a boat as small as a 16. If you've not seen one in person, they are small boats...many people (typically non-boaters) who first see photos of the 16 think that it's an 18 or 19, but not even close! Think of the 16 as a skiff that happens to have a cabin on it.

Others will have differing views no doubt!

-Mike
 
Bill, welcome! I came from a M15 background as well. We had an 81, but sold after buying the 22 cruiser. Are you on Keith's list server? There are a couple of us here who either have or did have a Montgomery. Great little cruisers!

In my opinion, the 22 cruiser is the best option. There's plenty of room for two people, it doesn't take a of power to push it along, and they launch and recover as easy as the Monty. There are a number of folks who single hand their 22s, and hopefully they will chime in with their thoughts. Regardless of which you choose, they're good and capable.

Steve
 
WS: Interesting that you went from an M15 to a 22, and you feel like they launch and retrieve about the same. These waters are not uncharted!

MikeR and haliman: The beam on an M15 is 6' 2", looks like the 16 is 6' 6". When I think of it that way, as two boats very similar in size, I get the feeling that more than two adults would be a crowd.

Bill
 
wdr99":12shhfw0 said:
WS: Interesting that you went from an M15 to a 22, and you feel like they launch and retrieve about the same. These waters are not uncharted!

MikeR and haliman: The beam on an M15 is 6' 2", looks like the 16 is 6' 6". When I think of it that way, as two boats very similar in size, I get the feeling that more than two adults would be a crowd.

Bill
Click to expand...

Bill, they're different in the launch/retrieve, but no more difficult. Worst issue for me has been retrieving in a crosswind, but the guides do a pretty good job.

BTW, I had M15-159.
 
I second Mikes thoughts on towing a 19. You can figure a difference of 200-400lbs between the 19 and 22 depending on final outfitting so they both put you in about the same place for a tow vehicle.

We had limited length on our storage so the 19 made a bit more sense but we are cruisers more than fisherfolk so we outfitted our 19 for cruising. Makes ours a heavy boat and I bet many folks who mainly fish out of their 22s have lighter towing weights than we do.

Greg
 
wdr99":3mt2e47e said:
WS: Interesting that you went from an M15 to a 22, and you feel like they launch and retrieve about the same. These waters are not uncharted!

MikeR and haliman: The beam on an M15 is 6' 2", looks like the 16 is 6' 6". When I think of it that way, as two boats very similar in size, I get the feeling that more than two adults would be a crowd.

Bill
Click to expand...
Agreed about 2 would be a crowd that's why I say forget the 16. I fish the Pacific and my 19 has been in some nasty weather and not by choice. Lake Superior can get nasty quick without warning and you would really need to pick your weather days with any boat of course but especially with a 16. The 16 has it's place for sure but not a big water boat. Just my opinion.
 
wdr99, Here is another chime in from a previous M-15 sailor. I had mine 4 years after I bought my C-Dory 22 Cruiser. AND yes there is a big difference, and no difference. I singlehand , launching and retrieving myself 99.9% of the time. If I have help, I ask them to watch the back of the baot so I don't bum;p into anything going down the ramp. (That keeps them out of the way and let's me get the job done. It is actually faster for me to launch the 22 than the M-15 once I'm into the parking lot.

The stability of the CD=16 is comparable to the M-15. It is tender to a point. The 22 will hardly notice when you step aboard. You won't have to move out of the cabin (V-birth) to sleep on the 22, and your wife will have a place to cook, wash her hands and be able to keep warm (with the Wallas on and the cabin door closed.

The 22, loaded and ready for cruising will come in (with the trailer) at 4500# or close. but will easily allow 3 or 4 adults on board, (I have had 6 for day trips) and you will have comfortable sleeping room, with a place for 2 to comfortably sit at a table, inside, out of the rain.

Yes it is a big decision, but it could (should) be a long lasting one. Get a personal, up close look at all three sizes; get rides on each, do your research, and then find your best deal. That will go best if you have the $$$$ in hand, because the good deals go quick.

Best to you in your searching.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

IMG_2044_sized_1.thumb.jpg
 
I notice in the pictures of Aurelia, a 19, that it has a closed cabin. And the new models seem to have an open cabin? Is that something that has changed over the years?

I appreciate all this conversation, it's already been very helpful. And two folks who migrated from M15s to C-Dory, very interesting!

Bill
 
Welcome aboard. A number of folks start with a 19 and then graduate to a 22. I have not owned a 19, but they are basically the same hull--just a little shorter.

I doubt that you would notice the difference in both trailering or launching. I have launched and run a 25 single handed. So I don't see that 22 as a problem--other than it is nice to have some one to back the truck down, makes it a little easier. I have an 18 center console for fishing, and I don't see the 22 as being much different for docking or launching. (At age 80).

Also depends on what you have or want to have for a tow vehicle. Although there are some small SUV's which can tow the 19/22, I prefer a larger SUV or 1/2 ton truck....

My own feeling is that the 16 would be a bit small for the Lake superior waters if it got a bit snotty!..But there are those who take them out in fairly rough weather.
 
The 16 sounds too small all around.

I think that you will find the towing of a 19 and 22 to be very similar. In your rearview mirror everything will be exactly the same. The extra 3' of hull aren't going to make a huge weight difference such that you would require a different class of vehicle. The extra length may add an element of a challenge on city streets, but you can get used to it. The 22 for all it offers on the water, is a very compact and trailerable boat.

Since you haven't specified, if you are in the used market, you will have the most options in a 22. But you might get a slightly better deal on a 19 since they are less common and so depreciate slightly more quickly for market reasons, not due to the boat's quality deteriorating more quickly. A good thing when it's time to buy, and a liability on the sale, regardless of whether you buy new or used because you will only be selling a used boat.

The 19s are mostly open cabin bulkheads. It may even be all and I've only seen pics of retrofit bulkheads, but that's a big difference in the layout. The separate cockpit/cabin is a nice thing for warmth and quiet, but is confining. The open bulkhead on the 19 actually imparts the feel of a slightly larger boat than a 22 cruiser. If you are looking for something more open and not likley to overnight, look for a 22 angler. It has a shorter cabin, but is more rare than the 22 cruiser most of us have.

Ok, now here is my direct opinion and advice: Lake Superior is no joke, and things there can get bad quickly. The CD 22 is, pound for pound, the most seaworthy boat on the water. You will be astounded if you ever have the misfortune of putting one to the test, but if you want to make a little room to breathe on you safety margin in unscheduled foul weather, the 22 is good insurance.
 
wdr99":3nzebqru said:
I notice in the pictures of Aurelia, a 19, that it has a closed cabin. And the new models seem to have an open cabin? Is that something that has changed over the years?

I appreciate all this conversation, it's already been very helpful. And two folks who migrated from M15s to C-Dory, very interesting!

Bill
Click to expand...

In honesty, I wish I still had my M15. It would be a nice compliment to my CDory.

I believe the enclosed cabin is an owner added feature on the CD19.
 
Our 19 has a custom bulkhead and they all come with just the canvas separating the cabin from the cockpit. The 22 anglers come with a bulkhead/door like the 22 model but I have seen some that were optioned to be canvas like a 19. We do like the openess of the 19 and with a canvas enclosure, use both parts of the boat as one space. We would have done similar with a 22 angler but our storage better fit the 19 and cabin space is the same on both.

Greg
 
Welcome aboard. I think you will find the 22 launches and retrieves a bit easier than your Montgomery 15 - the M15 drafts 15", with that bit of a keel, the CD-22 is less than a foot. With the aft buoyancy of the 22, it will float off the trailer just as easily as your Monty.

Instead of crouching down into the cabin, you will walk into the cabin of the C-Dory and have full standing height... a dinette where you can look out the windows... 360º of viewing from anywhere in the cabin. You will likely get in more boating because that cabin will protect you from the cold, wind, and precip... and shade you when the sun is blazing.

If you plan to do any over-nighting, the 22 will be more comfortable than the 19 or the 16. Thanks to that solid bulkhead, it was also be quieter.

When we bought a CD-25, we "downsized" from a Corsair trimaran, but gained a bunch more liveability. We also had a Com-Pac SunCat (just a bit bigger than your M15) that we kept for a couple years after buying the C-Dory... just for those times that we thought we'd want to sail. The SunCat was a great little boat, but it barely got used after we bought the 25. My feelings (and that of my wife) were that the 25 was easier to launch than the SunCat... and the SunCat has a reputation for being one of the easiest to launch/rig trailersailors.

Get the 22 and you will feel like you are living in the lap of luxury. Go wild and check out the 25 - we lived on ours for months at a time.

Good luck with the decisions. Plenty of sailors here will tell you that you are looking in the right direction.

Jim
 
I've got the 22'. That's my first and only C-Dory, coming from a 21' pontoon and 26' SeaRay. I single-hand frequently, and tow it all over the place around here, including Lake Michigan and Lake Superior. On the trailer weighs in just shy of 5000 lbs fully loaded. Most SUV's can either pull 3500 lbs, which then makes this boat too heavy, or 5000 lbs, which puts it at the limit. (I have been using a 2010 Highlander which did a fine job. This past fall I bought a F150 and will start using that to tow with.) For me personally, I think the 16 and 19 would be too small. The 22 is perfect for my wife and I, or just me by myself. Colby
 
Hi and welcome to this good source of information on these incredible boats. I've had a 16 cruiser for 3 1/2 yrs now and i actually use my craft 300 to 400 hrs a year. This boat is effortless to trailer and launch primarily due to it's light weight. When I pilot this boat I can step to the center of the boat with my hand still on the weel and change the trim of the boat underway by moving my weight left to right just like sailing a nice dinghy. This boat is deceving because it has the amenities of a larger craft, how ever this light weight is a real trade off in big seas such as your home of Lake Superior, like the song says "Superior never gives up her Dead". The 16 is a one person boat, two people can stay over night if they are in love but after that its just two tight, I've done 3 weeks on mine alone with no problem even pretty bad weather. This is not a blue water boat even though I use mine like one. The 22 is your boat I say this because I've travled with another C Brat friend for a week and was on and off each boat every day. Love my 16 and dont care to replace my 16 I just know from hard experience the 16 is a single hand boat for sure. These boats move kind of quick so have your money ready, you'll also need an appropriate vehicle to tow this stable craft. You'll notice in the used boat section the bulk of the boats are 22's and the reason is couples using the boat. learn to use this system which is old and most all of your questions are answered here. Again welcome aboard we're all in the same boat :teeth
 
Hi and welcome to this good source of information on these incredible boats. I've had a 16 cruiser for 3 1/2 yrs now and i actually use my craft 300 to 400 hrs a year. This boat is effortless to trailer and launch primarily due to it's light weight. When I pilot this boat I can step to the center of the boat with my hand still on the weel and change the trim of the boat underway by moving my weight left to right just like sailing a nice dinghy. This boat is deceving because it has the amenities of a larger craft, how ever this light weight is a real trade off in big seas such as your home of Lake Superior, like the song says "Superior never gives up her Dead". The 16 is a one person boat, two people can stay over night if they are in love but after that its just two tight, I've done 3 weeks on mine alone with no problem even pretty bad weather. This is not a blue water boat even though I use mine like one. The 22 is your boat I say this because I've travled with another C Brat friend for a week and was on and off each boat every day. Love my 16 and dont care to replace my 16 I just know from hard experience the 16 is a single hand boat for sure. These boats move kind of quick so have your money ready, you'll also need an appropriate vehicle to tow this stable craft. You'll notice in the used boat section the bulk of the boats are 22's and the reason is couples using the boat. learn to use this system which is old and most all of your questions are answered here. Again welcome aboard we're all in the same boat :teeth
 
wdr99":3tqo02ra said:
I notice in the pictures of Aurelia, a 19, that it has a closed cabin. And the new models seem to have an open cabin? Is that something that has changed over the years?

I appreciate all this conversation, it's already been very helpful. And two folks who migrated from M15s to C-Dory, very interesting!

Bill
Click to expand...

As Greg said, Their 19 had that aft bulkhead added by the original owner. It didn't come from the factory.

As to the M-15's, there are at least 4 represented here on C-BRATS, Wandering Sagebrush, Terry on RockC still has his I believe, minem and one other one I cannot remember now. Jim is right about the launching, the 22 is easier and in shallower water.

You will need a larger tow rig for the 19 or 22 than the M-15, but you will not regret the 22 over a 19. No difference there in single hand launching or navigating only cruising (space).

Enjoy your search and research. Anticipation and planning make it happen.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
The CD 16 is perfect for anti-social people like me. Sorry, no room. Although I did spend two weeks last summer with my wife on board and she's already planning to do the same next summer, so it can't be all that bad. Broughtons or Lake Powell? Let's do both again!

If I need to take more people, I use my 14' sailboat. Sounds strange, but I've had 4 adults and two kids in my 14' PicNic Cat (only to go on a picnic) without a problem. Same beam as the CD 16 and much more stable. Tabernacle mast and gaff rigged cat makes towing and setup simple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVWhIwwvcwc

Mark
 
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