Your opinion on a boat, especially sailers

G

Gregw

New member
I'm a couple years away from a cruise boat lifestyle. The C-Dory is at the top of my list, but I keep an eye open for alternates. This Trimaran caught my interest. It's primarily a cruising sailboat but can motor at 14 knots with a 40 hp outboard. In the sailing mode it sails above 15 knots without the heel of a mono-hull. Even though it's 28ft, it seems to fall somewhere the CD22 and 25 in the size and cost catagory. What do you think?

http://www.multihull-maven.com/Boats/Telstar_28
 
That's a neat sailboat. If you still want to sail, go for it. We had a sailboat for years and loved it, until we decided we would quit cruising by sail.

You're on a C-Dory site, and we've all got a powerboat. Some have sailboats, but they're not discussed here for obvious reasons. Judy and I picked the C-Dory because we wanted what they are: a trailerable cruising/fishing boat with a lot of comforts. (To those of you who only fish from your boat, sorry, but they are comfortable.) Now if you want to know why we bought a C-Dory after we left sailboats, that's another topic. That can be discussed forever.

Boris
 
journey on":2teps7v1 said:
That's a neat sailboat. If you still want to sail, go for it. We had a sailboat for years and loved it, until we decided we would quit cruising by sail.

You're on a C-Dory site, and we've all got a powerboat. Some have sailboats, but they're not discussed here for obvious reasons. Judy and I picked the C-Dory because we wanted what they are: a trailerable cruising/fishing boat with a lot of comforts. (To those of you who only fish from your boat, sorry, but they are comfortable.) Now if you want to know why we bought a C-Dory after we left sailboats, that's another topic. That can be discussed forever.

Boris
Click to expand...

Ya know, this boat seemed to me to be able to work well under sail and under power, and probably very economically under power. It's a trailerable cruising/ maybe fishing boat with lots of comforts, sound familiar? If you didn't have an opinion why bother to post? You could have at least given your reason for leaving saiboats.
 
journey on":351xlff2 said:
Some have sailboats, but they're not discussed here for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...

The reasons are not obvious to me. I find discussions of all boats interesting, because in the end it always comes back to the C-Dory -- because that is what we all have (but perhaps not exclusively).

I am curious whether such a boat could be kept in a slip with the anas folded and motored out before opening them up.

Warren
 
Thanks Warren,
The amas fold in for slip docking, trailering or narrow passages, you can open them out at any time. You can motor all day with them either in or out, if seas are really rough put them out. With the center board up it has a 12" draft. My dream is to do the great loop and did not consider a sailboat until I saw this boat. The mast can be stepped down on the water single handed in less that 5 min.
 
I had a small sailboat (Precision 21) and new I needed to go for something different and better suited to the Chesapeake. It seemed to me the my choice was between a Trimaran such as a Corsair, or a powerboat such as the C-Dory.

While we both enjoy sailing, some of the factors taking us to a CD-25 were primarily 1) ease of trailering as there is no mast to raise and lower; 2) the large enclosed cabin permitting us to operate the boat from a sheltered environment since it was our intent to use it year round; 3) the enclosed cabin is a safe protected place for my three year old grandson.

Now we've had it almost a year (although out of service for almost four months, Nov - Mar. getting repairs from being hit in the rear while on the highway). So far we've trailered very little. A weather related bonus has been that we've been protected from some very hot and intense sunshine.

Grandson protection is great and has gotten his parents to relax a bit. The only thing I miss is the ease of docking I had with the Precision. The keel, centerboard, and outboard that pivoted gave me an immense amount of control. But my docking within the C-Dory keeps improving with experience.

Bill
Edgewater, MD
 
If anyone thinks this thread is too far off topic, feel free to blast away. Since our new poster, Greg, has asked, I'll try my best at an answer. The regulars here know we had a Corsair trimaran before Wild Blue (and there are quite a few other former tri owners here). I had the opportunity to visit with Tony Smith (the designer/builder) onboard the new incarnation of the Telstar. It is a very nice couple's cruising trailerable trimaran. No where near the storage we have onboard the C-Dory, but nicely appointed and comfortable.

Yes, the amas can be pulled in for docking or motoring. The boat can be equipped with a bigger motor than most small sailboats to allow motoring in the mid-teens. The trimaran is a comfortable ride, certainly a different motion from a monohull. Smith has designed an interesting mast raising/lowering system to allow easy stepping/unstepping of the mast.

When I talked with him (a couple years ago), the website was saying something like "starting at $65k"; he told me to expect it to be closer to $85k out the door. As in all things, I would imagine it has increased in price since then, so it would certainly be in the neighborhood of a well-equipped CD-25.

After cruising Wild Blue for the past year, my opinion is this isn't an "apples and oranges" comparison... the Telstar and the C-Dory are much further apart than that. For a trailerable sailboat that has motoring potential, the Telstar certainly has appeal. Load it up, though, and like any sailing multihull, the performance will suffer. No inside steering station to get you out of the sun/precip/wind/spray/noise. Yes, there will be noise sitting in the cockpit of a sailboat with the motor nearby.

Personal opinion, I am not a big fan of the way the amas on the Telstar articulate; they are moved in and out with a line. Having said that, we did meet a Telstar owner in the Keys this past winter who had sailed there from the Carribbean, and he was very pleased with the boat. Having done the trailer and rig routine with a trimaran, it is such a pleasure to pull up to the ramp with the C-Dory and be ready to plunk her in in a few minutes. Because of wetted surface, trailerable trimarans do not have the cabin width and capacity of the C-Dory.

Tony Smith has designed and built some innovative boats (besides the Telstar, the Gemini 105c and earlier Gemini designs are his). He seems to come to market with boats that are functional and attractive in design and price.

Interesting comparison. If you want to sail, the decision is pretty easy. If you want protection from the elements and cabin accomodations, the decision is pretty easy. From there, you pay your money and make your choices. :wink: Both are trailerable and are boats... after that, they are completely different animals.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
I think the trimaran looks attractive, right up to the point of thinking about steering from the cockpit versus steering from inside a C Dory. I remember doing that! That means foul weather gear, right? Means no benefit of the heat from the Wallas.

Forget it, at least for the Northwest. Maybe it works in the warmer climates.

Dave
 
As Jim on Wild Blue and others, I too owned a trimaran, a Corsair F-31 (plus 6 sailboats before). I'd consider it the premier of cruising/racing trailerable sailboats. In addition to all the comments about being exposed to the weather, sailing performance suffering greatly when you overload a multihull, and the rest, there is one more disappointing characteristic I quickly discovered soon after sailing her. It's called VMG, Velocity Made Good. Unless you pay $10-20K or more for a flimsy rotating mast and tricked out sails, you'll be doing about 3-4 knots made good towards your destination while on a blissful close/beam reach going 10-15 knots! THAT'S disgusting. After 6 yrs, I finally gave up. Hard to own a sailboat and have weekend time constraints to go places and do things--other than sail.

Sure, you can motor and even beef up that motor, but then again, that's why I have a C-Dory!
 
Oh, and did I forget to mention that nearly all of our local island destinations are UPWIND, but coming home is generally pretty nice. Although on one trip in January 2001, with both my kids as crew (18 and 12 at the time), we had the pleasure of tacking 40 miles to the island in 10 hours. Then a freak storm 2 days later coming home in an inch an hour of rain at 45 degs outside, we had the pleasure again tacking back, 11 hours this time. That trip even got a special name, "The Trip from H-ll"! Ask my kids, they'll give you a minute by minute, hour by hour recall. No danger, just totally miserable.

And that my friend, is why both Jim and I (and other ex-sailors) have a great big smile on our faces when going straight upwind, maybe even in rain, while in our warm C-Dorys.
 
I've seen a lot of sail boats in Prince William Sound. very few of them under sail. A friend of mine once asked me why every thing I did involved being cold and wet. Now I own a C-Dory. I can choose when I want to be cold and wet. I still find the time to be cold and wet, but at least I can get dry and warm.

Tom
 
Now these were the type of comments that I was hoping for, thank you! Especially Jim B. with first hand knowledge of this boat and Tri's in general.

As someone who has not owned many different kinds of boats, I tend to overlook things that are obvious to more experienced sailers / boaters. None of the tests said if the boat was loaded down with any weight, so I assume that means empty, more weight, less performance and I imagine a wetter ride in the cockpit. I guess with any sailboat the cabin and cockpit are two separate places, where the C-Dory's are one big space that flows together, albeit with a door between.

I spent a few hours with the good folks from Boatline in Charleston SC. testing a CD22 and loved it. I can't seem to get that boat out of my head, but until I educate myself a bit more, I can't be sure it's the right boat for me. As gas prices go up, my eye wanders to sail power more and more, even though I don't think I have the patience for sailing. I know there is no such thing as the perfect boat, you just have to choose your compromises, so I'm learning mine.

More comments about this boat or boat selection in general are greatly appreciated. Thanks again
Greg
 
Greg-

Looking back through this thread, you really haven't said how much experience you've had sailing, and your comment above

" even though I don't think I have the patience for sailing"

seems to indicate that you're not a real experienced sailor. (And that's OK.)

If so, you really ought to get some considerable time in sailing on a variety of different sailboats before seriously considering buyiing a new trimaran. And that would include time with your first mate, too!

There's a lot to sailing that doesn't just come to mind in one's imagination about it!

Good Luck!

Joe.
 
Greg,

Sea Wolf's post has a lot of wisdom in it.

I owned only sailboats, and small fishing boats, for thirty years before we bought Valkyrie and have cruised many miles under sail. I remember reading once that about half the time when cruising on a sailboat that you will be cold, wet, hungry and tired. I found that it's often higher than that. Also, realistically you'll spend at least half of your time motorsailing or motoring.

We found that having our Jeanneau 23 was somewhat restrictive - we couldn't rig it with only two people, were constrained by draft, needed a hoist to launch and there was also the time constraint for traveling.

With Valkyrie, we can be in SC in a day and fishing offshore for the next five and then be back home in another day. The Keys? No problem. Erie Canal - same thing.

When we were in sail, I would say that powerboaters needed their boat to get to a destination, while sailors realized that their boat was their destination and sailing was an end in itself, not a mode of transportation. Now, however, I realize that Valkyrie is both a destination and a means to reach a geopgraphic destination, as well.

Based on Joe's comments, get some experience before you buy any pricey boat. On a two year extended cruise to the Keys and Bahamas on Spirit, I met a few very miserable couples who had no experience in sail and had sunk a considerable amount of money into boats to be able "to sail off into the sunset" of their retirement years. The ones I met who had little experience argued constantly about the decision (and everything else) and appeared close to divorce to me.

Good luck in your decision and welcome to the site.

Nick
"Valkyrie"

PS: By the way, I still consider myself a sailor and when it really starts honkin' out there, I still yearn for a good sailboat with a double-reefed main and a little bit of headsail so I could enjoy the blow.
 
Steve and Joe (as usual) bring up some interesting points. Some of the decisions regarding two completely different boats come from experience. Over the years, we've been pretty fortunate to find the right boat for the mission (at the time). Five years ago, you couldn't have given me a powerboat... sailing was life... it was our escape from the rat race. Standing in the cockpit, feeling the wind on my face, going nowhere in particular, and loving every minute of it.

But when the idea of "going somewhere" figured into the equation, a vessel that could get us there -comfortably, reliably, consistently - certainly took on more appeal. That's when we found our way to the C-Dory.

I have some beliefs that most might think absurd. Almost everyone who drives a car rode a bike when they were younger; I think some of that type of foundation should be required for other means of transportation. If you're going to have a boat, first you get some experience sailing a dinghy. Going to drive a car? Spend some time on a motorcycle or scooter. You want to fly? Yep, small taildragger experience first. :wink: That "seat of your pants" experience will make you more proficient as you move up and give you more empathy for others in the same activity. Of course, that won't happen in today's world... you can hop into a 45' cigarette boat and drive away without knowing the rules of the road. Or set off on a circumnavigation in a 50' sailboat without knowing how to read a chart. Or drive away in a 45' diesel motorcoach after just getting a drivers license. Fortunately, we have some rules regarding time and proficiency for flying. :wink

So, Jim, are you going somewhere with this babble? Yes, thanks for asking. Greg may be in that discovery stage: ready to pursue a travel dream in the not too distant future, but not sure what conveyance will best suit that dream. We've all been there - wanting to take that first step and NOT wanting to make a bad buying decision. Well, the right boat for the mission will depend a lot on mind-set for that person. My guess is, if you ask the same question on a trimaran forum, they may think that is the perfect boat for cruising. (Go figure? 8) )

We have some insane people on this forum... Joel, who thinks it's big fun to drive old motorcycles across the country; Dave who cuts boats in two and stretches them; Bill and El - besides their C-Dory adventures, they've traveled the waterways in a 20' sailboat and backpacked more miles than some of us have driven; Casey and Sandy, who play demolition derby with RVs and keep going; I could go on and on. But the thing I notice most here is that C-Dory folks tend to be adventurous; interestingly, it is similar folks who sail trimarans.

Now, at long last getting to a point (sort of) for Greg. You've come to the temple of all things C-Dory and asked about our boats vs something entirely different. About the same reaction you'd get if you went to a Dodge dealership and asked, "Should I buy a Cummins diesel or a Duramax?" :twisted: The best boat for you may be the Telstar (Hell, that may have been the best boat for me a few years ago). Here, we've voted with our dollars and C-Dory won by a landslide! :mrgreen: We can compare and contrast vessels endlessly (and we frequently do), but your mind-set will be the determining factor in boat selection.

Maybe it's time to check out a sailing dinghy? :lol: We still have a small sailboat... it's great for playing, spending a day or a weekend without a schedule or even a destination. In 5 years, my mind-set may change... we might sell the house and set off under sail... and at that time, Tony Smith may be the guy I want to visit with about building us a boat. But for right now, the C-Dory is just the right boat for our mission (fun traveling, btw).

Good luck with this discovery stage, Greg. Many of us have gone through the same angst. This forum and the great folks who participate on it are a endless wealth of knowledge (and entertainment). The pursuit of the dream is part of the journey.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
One of the fine points of C-Dories is the large, opening windows - esp. the center front opening window. That Tri-maran does not seem to have any large windows that open.

Also, key point already mentioned - you'd have to steer that tri-maran from the cockpit. Could not cook breakfast, make coffee, lay dry maps out on a wet day, stay warm at the helm, etc..

I love sailing and I do that in a kayak tri-maran - wet and windy - then climb back into a warm C-Dory cabin for hot chocolate!

There's a bit of difference between choosing to be wet,cold, and sun-stroked or having to be wet, cold and sun-stroked.

John
 
I sailed up and down the west coast for over 20 years and just reached a point where I said enough with the wet, cold, slow stuff that is sailing. I loved sailing and still do but I can get my fix with my daysailer whenever I want to. The C-Dory gives us so much flexibility and much more comfort and convenience. Not to say I won't someday go back to a cruising sailboat, but at my advancing age probably not. And I am certain the new puppy would give sailing a thumbs down. My other dogs always got seasick when sailing.
 
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