Yellowstone Oil Spill

W

Will-C

New member
After reviewing some of the regulations dealing with the park, placing an oil pipeline in such a pristine area seems crazy to me. Since I have a trip planned at the begining of next month I wondered if anyone had first had info on how bad or not so bad the situation really is at the park.
D.D.
 
The spill happened in the Yellowstone river near Laurel MT not in the park (the pipeline is not in the park). Since the Yellowstone drains from the area of the park into the Missouri and ultimately into the Mississippi and the gulf, no oil is head towards the park. The park will still be lovely.
 
Thanks, just saw the Yellowstone River mentioned on the band of the bottom of a news screen on a TV at the gym this am with no sound. Looking at the road atlas there looks to be two yellowstone rivers that flow into Montana.
D.D.
 
Just returned from Yellowstone Lake after four delightful days on the lake. Joined by Jay and Jolee and Ken and Laura - three C-Dorys.

About the oil spill. The only thing coming out of the park right now is water, a lot of water. The oil spill occurred about a mile below Laurel, about ten miles upstream from Billings. The pipeline runs about six feet under the Yellowstone coming from the Montana/Wyoming oil field eventually to the Exxon/Mobile refinery in Billings. This particular pipeline is a 12 inch line, built 20 years ago.

Estimated barrels spilled before the pipeline was shut off? Around 1,000 barrels. The Yellowstone is at flood stage, so within the first 24 hours the oil has travelled perhaps 125 miles, but since the river has crested, fallen and then risen again several times, some of the oil is left on the banks.

This of course is crude oil and really sticky stuff. All of this is bad news period.

Yellowstone Lake is approaching a record level by the way. The
Bridge Bay Marina was preparing to shut off the electricity today to the slips because the lake was rising to the electrical boxes fixed on the metal facings.. Why they were installed that low is anyone's guess. As the lake continues to rise, the big tour boat, Lake Queen II, may not be able to clear the highway bridge. and already some of the bigger boats with flying bridges are stuck in the bay and can't go out in the lake.

For some of you familiar with Yellowstone Lake, the feeder streams like Cub and Clear Creek are raging torrents. Plover Pt. is currently under water and the Yellowstone River above the delta is bringing down much floating debris, not to mention all the dead fall on the shoreline. I can't say for sure, but the Molly Islands are probably under water right now. We saw large rafts of Pelicans on islands below Gardiner, apparently waiting to go somewhere.

Fishing? Very good for the cuts but slow on the lake trout. Going back this coming Saturday. John & Edna
 
I'm in Billings as we speak. It;s just as John says. The river is flowing fast and full, with brown water. Some booms have been placed across the river.
 
John,
Thanks for the on site update. Maybe in a month things will calm down/ drain down. Record snowfall or just a rapid warm up causing all the snow to melt at the same time? We got the info you sent via mail Thank you again. We should be on our way out there in a month or so.

D.D.
 
Snowfall in the area (the Tetons are part of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem) is 150% of normal, but the moisture content of that snow is 200% of normal. That is where all this water is coming from.

I assumed the cruiseboat there would be having an issue with that bridge, but had forgotten about the electrical boxes in the marina. Yellowstone does have a very nice floating dock system, but there is a limit on how far up that can go without damage due to the connection to their "seawall" on the shore side.

All the tributaries in the area are running full (some over the banks). The Snake River (running south of Yellowstone) has a lot of dams and reservoirs that have been drained down in anticipation of the massive runoff (that was our situation in Colter Bay when we first arrived - we are now above 90% capacity and doing fine); Yellowstone has no controlling dam, so as that lake overfills, there is a LOT of water going down the Yellowstone River. I would anticipate debris in the lake there to be a concern for all boaters.

For Dave, unless you were going to spend all your time on the lake in Yellowstone, I don't think you'll find the rest of that HUGE park to be affected by this, other than some trails closed due to snow/mud. Further south in the Tetons, everything is running as normal, although our tributaries south of the dam are causing high/fast water on the Snake... the three-hour scenic float trips (rafts) are taking about two hours. :wink: The white water raft rides are actually a little less "thrilling" due to the high water - but it will still take your breath away. Here's a shot of our family rafting while our daughter and son-in-law were here the week of Father's Day...

Raft3e.jpg

The floating docks in our marina in the Tetons have required a lot of repair after the tough winter (welders are still working on some parts), but because they do not have a hard attachment to the shore (like Yellowstone), they won't be damaged by high water. Transient slips here, however, are much tougher to come by, where Yellowstone generally has vacant transient slips.

If you're "land traveling" either park, there should be no issue. As stated previously, the oil leak was way downriver from the park, although the media has sensationalized the fact that it is the Yellowstone River (and many assume that IS all in the park). The Yellowstone River is one of the longest undammed rivers in the US.

So, come on down to two of the most amazing National Parks in the country... it's only 23 miles from the south entrance of Yellowstone Park to the Colter Bay Marina in Grand Teton National Park.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

This photo, taken earlier this week, shows how much snow is still on the mountains in July...

MarinaMorningE.jpg
 
dotnmarty":2e5mlhlm said:
I'm in Billings as we speak.
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Marty, please say hello to my hometown Billings for me....I used to float many portions of the Yellowstone River in my high school and college days there. Frequently, I read the Billings Gazette on the internet just so I can keep up on the hometown news. That was how I was initially informed of the oil leak. Not good and it has angered many folks about the current and future damage arising from it.
 
What I don't understand is why pipelines such as this don't have automated systems to turn off the line when a significant drop in pressure is detected. It would seem to me that it would be relatively simple to put pressure sensors every so often along a pipeline and measure pressure as a function of flow rate when the pipe is initially installed. Then a drop of pressure along a given stretch of pipe would be indicative of a leak and automated valves could shut down a section of pipe. It's not that complicated to implement such a thing, especially for a pipe that passes under a river or near an environmentally sensitive area.

However, to make sure such things happen would require sensible regulation and enforcement. E.g. government involvement, more regulation and EPA or some other agency to oversee that this happens. With a move in congress to reduce the scope of the EPA (and some desire to even see it dismantled entirely), I don't see things changing much to prevent such accidents in the future.
 
The kids in DC are dealing with some important matters such as Rodger Clements lying about steriod use and the debt ceiling. :crook Call me crazy but isn't there a lot of seismic activity out in this area. :shock: Burying oil pipelines under rivers seems like a bad idea. I'm sure the EPA has enough resources left to glean EXXon's pockets on this one. Maybe I'll become a resident of Montana and wait for the windfall. Good thing Exxon couldn't fit the Exxon Valdez up the Yellowstone. They would have had to change the name river to the Brownstone. I guess it could have been worse. Good thing captain Joe Hazelwood is retired. So by looking at my ten year old road atlas am I correct in thinking the Yellowstone river comes out of Montana feeds Yellowstone lake and also drains the lake and runs back into Montana and runs sort of north northeast to the Missouri River?
D.D.
 
Roger. I would think that the sensors you are talking about are in place. Its just a matter of how far apart they are and what the capacity of the line is between the values. a Thousand gallons maybe the minimum amount that can be spilled. heated oil traveling at ?? mph in a pipe is not going to be easy to stop. The momentum of that much weight alone could cause a lot of damage if you just threw a valve shut in front of it.

In my work I have seen a lot of damage in homes that the water is shut off. Brokers will come out to preform an inspection turn the water on at the street really fast with out turning on the faucets in the house first. the water pressure and the air in the empty pipes will blow the lines apart at the house or in the house at several locations. That's just a little 1/2 line. as bad as it sounds a 1000 gallon spill may very well have been the best case scenario.
 
starcrafttom":17ih34si said:
Roger. I would think that the sensors you are talking about are in place. Its just a matter of how far apart they are and what the capacity of the line is between the values. a Thousand gallons maybe the minimum amount that can be spilled. heated oil traveling at ?? mph in a pipe is not going to be easy to stop. The momentum of that much weight alone could cause a lot of damage if you just threw a valve shut in front of it.

In my work I have seen a lot of damage in homes that the water is shut off. Brokers will come out to preform an inspection turn the water on at the street really fast with out turning on the faucets in the house first. the water pressure and the air in the empty pipes will blow the lines apart at the house or in the house at several locations. That's just a little 1/2 line. as bad as it sounds a 1000 gallon spill may very well have been the best case scenario.
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Good point Tom. However, it apparently took about an hour for the line to get shut down (twice what the company originally estimated). I would think one could engineer a system that would do an automated shutdown faster than that without breaking the pipe.
 
The Yellowstone River is everyone's river. It's more important to me than the Liberty Bell and Statue of Liberty, man made objects that we celebrate-especially around the fourth of July. Man made objects surrounded by motels, gas stations and junk shops. The Yellowstone is real country with the spirit of so many people lining its banks and surrounding hills, thousands of people back in time before the whites, then a mixture of explorers and trappers and always the Indians. If Pompey's Pillar on the Yellowstone could have had a sign-in sheet, the names would have been the who's who of the centuries! Sitting Bull, George Catlin, John James Audobon, Crazy Horse, William Clark and George Armstong Custer all climbed to the top for the view. Now I expect the view is marred by the oil spill, even though you could still see the snow covered peaks of Yellowstone park to the southwest.

An oil spill like this reveals a deeper problem - corporate CEO's with the sole goal of maximizing profits and politicians being led around by the nose by lobbyists. Maybe the Yellowstone isn't everyone's river after all. The hikers, paddlers, campers, hunters and fishermen would have never allowed an oil pipeline under the river in the first place! Roger
 
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