Which brand?

[Matt Gurnsey]

...as a dealer we can sell four different lines (Evinrude, Suzuki, Yamaha, and now (ugh) Mercury)...

What's wrong with Merc? I've never particularly liked them, but there's no good reason for that. I've also noticed that very few (non Brunswick) boats in the San Juans seem to have Mercs and there aren't many C-Dorys with them.

And on a different topic...the USCG is beginning to replace their response boat-small (RB-S...those 25 foot SAFE boats that we've all seen around) with a newer model. Once again, they've selected Honda BF225's to power the boats. I'd venture to guess that they put more hours on Honda outboards than just about anyone else and they must have given reliable service or another company would have gotten their business. Granted, the USCG doesn't have to worry about dealer support or availability and our C-Dory's use smaller engines, but this does seem like a pretty good endorsement of Honda.

I think the only reason the Coast Guard is using Honda is because Honda has the lowest price to the government. I don't think quality comes into the equation at all. Having dealt with a few government sales, I can tell you they are the biggest pain in the you know what, and the dealership makes hardly anything on them. They are hard to deal with, and often we wait months for our payment.

As far as Mercury- part of it is bias- we've avoided being a merc dealer for years now, and rarely run into Merc as a coompetitor on repower sales. Their 75 and 90 are obscenely heavy and large, and their Verado is overly complex and heavy. They use the same block from 75 to 200 horsepower.

But, times change, and we've taken on Lund, which is owned by Brunswick, so we've been forced to go over to the dark side. There are some products in the Merc line up that will fill holes in our other product lines, and the Tohatsu built small motors have some unique models, so that will fill some holes we have.

We will not be working on anything but the four stroke models for now, although we can offer parts support for the entire line. We will not be doing Optimax or Verado at this time. Optimax is about gone due to EPA regulations, and Verado isn't really a repower motor (same for the new Offshore Yamaha's).

Mercury does have a new 150 that is a brand new block. Naturally aspirated, it looks promising.

So we'll be offering them, but they are not always easy to deal with as a company, and in most sizes we think we already offer outstanding repower options. But if you must have one, I can get it for you.

 

[mjsiega]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Tohatsu. I've had their smaller 4 stroke engines and think they are better than Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, all of which I have had or used extensively, and hear nothing but excellent comments on their larger low pressure direct injection two strokes. Relatively clean burning, light weight, and less expensive than the more complicated fuel injected four strokes. For long term durability I would stay away from fuel injected four strokes.

 

[SPrice]

You all are amazing! Thank you all so much for all your great comments and knowledge.

Summary of all comments:
So it looks like today’s outboards are more reliable than yesterdays. It depends on your relationship with your local mechanic if you stay close to your home area on your boat. If you cruise - then dealer network is more important and you should carry extra parts anyway.

Yamaha seems to have great dealer support in the NW to Alaska. Honda not so much but they too have reliable engines.

We should get all the manufacturers to unleash their propriety lock on parts, tools and diagnostic equipment! Then a good mechanic can work on any of them!! Dealers would make more money too!!

Just like my autos!! I have 2 mechanics. 1 for my gas engine autos and 1 for my diesel engines. All different manufacturers. If they break down anywhere I don’t have to go to the manufacture to get them fixed.

Another note.., I have been looking at many different brands of closed cabin boats. This C-Brats forum and group is an excellent source of information and comradeship! It makes buying a C-Dory easier!

So.., this is what she is and the 2 options I have come to;

The boat has 850 hours on her 2004 Honda 4 stroke BF150 with hydraulic steering and a Yamaha kicker. Trade in value is good for the Honda 150 says the dealer. I can keep her as is and feel good about the Honda’s reliability, power, etc., or.., I can re-power her. I would get a single Yamaha 150 (negotiating power should be good with the economy and that 2011’s are still available) for lower fuel cost and less maintenance cost than twin engines (even though twins look really cool!). I would also have to get all new Yamaha controls. If I go on a long cruise the Yamaha network is great and I’ll get a 2nd Yamaha kicker for safety and redundancy. My initial thoughts would be to keep her as is with the Honda main power and get a 2nd Yamaha kicker when we cruise into SE Alaska. Hmmm..,

Like my father always told me..,
"A wise man learns from experience..,
But a wiser man learns from experience of others!"
Thank s again for all your help. Happy New Year and safe boating to all.

Thank s again for all the help. Happy New Year and safe boating to all.

 

[hardee]

SPrice said,

"......I would also have to get all new Yamaha controls. If I go on a long cruise the Yamaha network is great and I’ll get a 2nd Yamaha kicker for safety and redundancy. My initial thoughts would be to keep her as is with the Honda main power and get a 2nd Yamaha kicker when we cruise into SE Alaska. Hmmm.., "

My thoughts are that the price of a second Yami kicker would eclipse the price of the new controls for Yamaha, and if you went with twins initially, you would not need that extra kicker either. Might keep the one you have, or sell it too since you would already have 2 engines. If the boat is a 25 then the kicker might make a good fishing motor.

Your father was a wise man.

Like my father always told me..,
"A wise man learns from experience..,
But a wiser man learns from experience of others!"

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[Yellowstone]

Matt - "ugh" and "dark side" about Merc. outboards? Is it the black paint you don't like? Need to give you some good natured teasing on that one. Had a bunch of lower powered Mercs over the years. Very satisfactory when they were maintained regularly. Also have had Johnsons, Evinrudes, and many Hondas from 2hp up to the carb 90 HP. Liked them all.

My 115 Mercury is my first EFI. (Merc. claims they wrote the book on EFIs) I mentioned in an earlier post that the 115 had a Yamaha block , the last year (2006) Mercury outsourced that motor.. It has about 400 hours and has been with out exception utterly reliable.

Listening and talking to others about their experiences seems to reflect the general opinion that some models within a line are simply more or
less reliable than others. There are cars like that. Remember the Edsel?

There is a mechanic at Yellowstone Lake who has serviced all kinds of outboards, 2 and 4 cycle for a number of years for visiting boaters. He works in the off season with ATVs and snow mobiles, a steady diet of mechanical work
I confer with him during the summers and he shares his opinions based on his considerable experience. Following are some.

Xanterra, the concessionaire in the Park, has a number of outboards on a variety of boats. They have 10 rental Gregors 16' with 40 HP carb Hondas. They were used during the summer season and used hard by tourists who often know little about how to run an outboard. The Honda 40 is the most reliable motor he has every serviced. Virtually "bullet proof" according to him. A pair of twin Honda 225s used to push a big utility boat have had problems. His assessment is that the boat is too heavy and needs more horsepower in order to go on plane and stay there.
But Xanterra won't spring for an appropriate size motor. The problem repeats itself.

A new Grady White 22' was added to the fleet of guide boats this past summer. The older Gradys are inboards. The new one was designed for an outboard. A new Yamaha 150 was installed. It promptly blew up after several weeks of service. From that single experience would it be rational to conclude the Yamaha 150 was iffy? I don't think so. Nor do I think you do either.

This is Lund country here in Montana, Mercs and Yamahas seemed to be the motors of choice. It is a marketing function, IMO. Anyway, as you stated, we have our biases. I certainly do.

IMO, picking a reliable four cycle for a C-Dory in today's market is what I call a "happy problem."

 

[potter water]

I've watched very carefully the c-brats threads on fuel consumption versus boat load versus props, versus etc. etc. for both twins and singles. My boat has twin Suzy's. 50 hp each. When I compare my Lake Powell numbers for off plane and on plane economy I can't see any significant difference from a single 100 hp engine on a CD22.

Just my observation. The big engine and kicker thing is fine. But I can still get on plane with one of my Suzy's at 50 hp...not real fast, but on plane. A kicker just won't get you back to civilization very fast.

I think even if I paid a penalty in fuel consumption, I really like having two "big" motors back there. Medical or other emergency with the single big engine failing...that is when engines fail...when you need the speed and power the most, isn't something I'm willing to risk.

Lake Powell winds do a real number on kickers if that is what you have to rely on for power for a high wetted area (wind resistance) boat like the CD's. I don't consider Lake Powell a "protected water" after being in some of the winds that are normal at least one day on any given week during the season. Airplanes and boats all do better with more power.

And, I agree, there is just something sexy about those two engines back there. Symmetry they say is what makes a beautiful or handsome face. So it goes with boat butts.

 

[thataway]

How fast is your boat going "on plane" at lake Powell, with a single 50 hp Suzuki? What amount of strain are you putting on that engine trying to plane the boat with one engine? Since you are doing much of your boating at higher altitudes than sea level; are you using a lower pitch prop? Do you carry an extra low pitch prop for the times you need to run on a single engine? The loss of power is somewhere about 10% at Lake Powell due to altitude (although some might argue that there is more loss).

 

[potter water]

I keep both engines powered with a prop that gives me the full 6500 RPM at WOT though I just don't run them that fast other than to test the prop size. I spend most of my time in Yellowstone, Jackson and Powell, and Flaming Gorge. All high altitude relatively speaking. The one set of props does the job at all of those places. Of course, I'm not optimized for fastest top end because that isn't the way I roll.

The 50 Susy will just get on plane about 12 to 13 mph on one engine and it runs at about 5500 once I'm there. It take s the whole 6500 to get on plane. I'd only run a single engine there for any length of time-on plane-only if I was stuck with one engine operating and had an emergency that required getting somewhere faster than my normal off plane cruise speed of 8 or so mph. But, it will do it. I've never HAD to do that, but there is a bit of margin if and when I ever have to call on it.

Safe boating is all about carrying a little margin here and a little there with engines, safety equipment, com and nav and so on. You'll find two marine radios and two GPS's on my boat. Oh, and a compass and charts also. Two sets of flares of various types. Three fire extinguishers and a pretty complete medical kit. You won't find water in the water tank
an over abundance of clothes, BBQ's and many of the other weight parasitics that are found on many boats. Just one house battery and no electric down riggers, etc. So my 22 is relatively...only relatively...light.

Each to his own. As for me, I love my twin 50hp Suzy's.