Twelve fantastic days at Lake Powell, great visit with fellow brats last Sunday. We left Wednesday to try to get a few days cruise at Flaming Gorge, put in at Mustang Ridge Thursday at 4:00 pm, at the ramp I noticed that both the braking tires were black with grease. It was too late to do too much so we cleaned the wheels, put in, spent the night and cruised the gorge today until noon today. I thought the brakes might have got a little hot and the bearings would be O.K. but they were pretty hot after the 6 miles to Dutch John so I started to change bearings. Then I called the place where I had the bearings checked before the trip and they said it sounded like the brakes were dragging and the bearings were fine so we started out for the nearest town (Vernal Utah) using very little brakes and checking the bearings every ten miles, they were running just warm. When we got to Vernal the wheels were black again and hot. Tomorrow I will attempt to change the bearings (a real push for me) as nobody in Vernal works on bearings on the weekend. Long story....Has anyone had a similar problem?? Could the brakes be dragging?? If so, there doesn't appear to be a cut out on the Triton surge brakes, should I just drain the lines??? The grease isn't fried, should I change the bearings??? Should we just try to learn as much we can about Vernal Utah until Monday??? Any tips on where to eat in Vernal???
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Wheel bearing/brake trouble after paradise
- Thread starter sportner
- Start date
Mighty Bite
New member
Russ: To be of any help need to know what kind of a setup you have. Drum
or Disc brakes.
I had the same problem and finally resolved it. Your situation may be entirely different, but this is just something to be aware of.
In my case I had a tandem axle trailer, w/stainless disc brakes, and a 22' Cruiser. It had a Triton actuator on the trailer. The wheels/hubs would get hot enough to fry eggs and then some. pad wear was irregular and excessive and they lathered up the wheels with grease as well. Finally ran down the problem and it turned out to be the actuator. Now, the actuators for disc brakes are clearly labeled "for disc brakes". Some trailer mfgs have, I suppose for the purposes of inventory convenience, taken to ordering all their actuators for drum brakes and modifying the units that they install on disc brake trailers. (Hopefully that practice has stopped)
The difference in the two types is that an actuator for drum brakes has a
residual valve in them. For disc brakes the actuators have no residual valve.
What they do sometimes is puncture the residual valve with a sharp tool and
convert it to a disc applicable actuator. Not an ideal situation but it will work.
In my case they used a drum brake actuator and did not remove the residual
valve, or puncture the valve. This caused the brakes to drag steadily and manifested itself as a very large pain in the butt.
In fairness, once I did locate the root of the problem the manufacturer furnished me with a complete set of new calipers and vented rotors which
I installed early this past spring. The change has been dramatic. I'm running
cool now to barely warm. Spell it major R E L I E F!
Good luck.
or Disc brakes.
I had the same problem and finally resolved it. Your situation may be entirely different, but this is just something to be aware of.
In my case I had a tandem axle trailer, w/stainless disc brakes, and a 22' Cruiser. It had a Triton actuator on the trailer. The wheels/hubs would get hot enough to fry eggs and then some. pad wear was irregular and excessive and they lathered up the wheels with grease as well. Finally ran down the problem and it turned out to be the actuator. Now, the actuators for disc brakes are clearly labeled "for disc brakes". Some trailer mfgs have, I suppose for the purposes of inventory convenience, taken to ordering all their actuators for drum brakes and modifying the units that they install on disc brake trailers. (Hopefully that practice has stopped)
The difference in the two types is that an actuator for drum brakes has a
residual valve in them. For disc brakes the actuators have no residual valve.
What they do sometimes is puncture the residual valve with a sharp tool and
convert it to a disc applicable actuator. Not an ideal situation but it will work.
In my case they used a drum brake actuator and did not remove the residual
valve, or puncture the valve. This caused the brakes to drag steadily and manifested itself as a very large pain in the butt.
In fairness, once I did locate the root of the problem the manufacturer furnished me with a complete set of new calipers and vented rotors which
I installed early this past spring. The change has been dramatic. I'm running
cool now to barely warm. Spell it major R E L I E F!
Good luck.
El and Bill
New member
Sorry, can't help with the brake/bearing problem.
Vernal is an interesting small town, I lived in years ago. There are some good places to eat on the main street downtown (and a great bakery), but the best treat is the museum -- life-size statues of dinosaurs and great displays. Dinosaur National Monument, not many miles to the east, is a great place to spend the day, and you can drive down to the confluence of the Green and Yampa Rivers on a good, beautiful scenic road- you'll see it on your highway map.
Also, Don Hatch has one-day float trips through the Split Mountain of Dinosaur NM that are great! Used to run river with Don and they do a good job, if you have time to take a float trip -- it would be a great memory and diversion from your trailer problem.
Steinaker State Park, a few miles north of Vernal, is a great place to camp -- if you wish to 'camp' in your boat. Less than $10 a night and a pretty place -- we enjoy staying there.
So, don't know where to get trailer fixed there, but you landed in an interesting small town with lots to see and do in the neighborhood and a good state park to camp in about 5 miles away. Good luck on getting things fixed.
Vernal is an interesting small town, I lived in years ago. There are some good places to eat on the main street downtown (and a great bakery), but the best treat is the museum -- life-size statues of dinosaurs and great displays. Dinosaur National Monument, not many miles to the east, is a great place to spend the day, and you can drive down to the confluence of the Green and Yampa Rivers on a good, beautiful scenic road- you'll see it on your highway map.
Also, Don Hatch has one-day float trips through the Split Mountain of Dinosaur NM that are great! Used to run river with Don and they do a good job, if you have time to take a float trip -- it would be a great memory and diversion from your trailer problem.
Steinaker State Park, a few miles north of Vernal, is a great place to camp -- if you wish to 'camp' in your boat. Less than $10 a night and a pretty place -- we enjoy staying there.
So, don't know where to get trailer fixed there, but you landed in an interesting small town with lots to see and do in the neighborhood and a good state park to camp in about 5 miles away. Good luck on getting things fixed.
Mark,
Thanks for the advice. We have a tandem axle with disc brakes on one axle. I can't figure out why this would happen now after towing for over 1500 miles with no problem. I tend to think it might have been that long downhill trip with ten switchbacks from Flaming Gorge...and even though I tried to use compression with the Duramax diesel, the the boat and trailer may have been pushing the truck enough for the brakes to drag. I think I will pull the bearing buddies this morning and inspect the grease, if it isn't burnt like tar I will give them a few more pumps and give it a test run.
Bill, Thanks for the suggestions to keep us occupied if we are here for the weekend.
Any other advice is appreciated.
Thanks for the advice. We have a tandem axle with disc brakes on one axle. I can't figure out why this would happen now after towing for over 1500 miles with no problem. I tend to think it might have been that long downhill trip with ten switchbacks from Flaming Gorge...and even though I tried to use compression with the Duramax diesel, the the boat and trailer may have been pushing the truck enough for the brakes to drag. I think I will pull the bearing buddies this morning and inspect the grease, if it isn't burnt like tar I will give them a few more pumps and give it a test run.
Bill, Thanks for the suggestions to keep us occupied if we are here for the weekend.
Any other advice is appreciated.
Russ...It is normal for the hubs to sling grease if they are over greased. They will also do this when they get hot and the grease thins. Unless the hubs are running too hot to touch...I would not worry about it.
If the hubs are getting really hot...the first place I would look is your breakaway actuator. It can get actuated when you are maneuvering...tight turns. The chain or cable can be too short or get hung up on something in the hitch assembly/truck and partially actuate the brakes. Also, when you are climbing around on the trailer it can get kicked or stepped on and actuate. May need to be reset.
My bet would be that downgrade warmed the brakes and they slung a little grease...and there is nothing wrong with your system at all. Surge brake systems are at their worst on steep downgrades where you use compression braking...the brakes are applied the entire grade and tend to overheat. I've seen them get so hot they melted the galvanizing off the rotor! No remedy other than to stop and let them cool.
Check your bearing buddies...if they indicate they need grease...give them a squirt....and head on down the road.
If the hubs are getting really hot...the first place I would look is your breakaway actuator. It can get actuated when you are maneuvering...tight turns. The chain or cable can be too short or get hung up on something in the hitch assembly/truck and partially actuate the brakes. Also, when you are climbing around on the trailer it can get kicked or stepped on and actuate. May need to be reset.
My bet would be that downgrade warmed the brakes and they slung a little grease...and there is nothing wrong with your system at all. Surge brake systems are at their worst on steep downgrades where you use compression braking...the brakes are applied the entire grade and tend to overheat. I've seen them get so hot they melted the galvanizing off the rotor! No remedy other than to stop and let them cool.
Check your bearing buddies...if they indicate they need grease...give them a squirt....and head on down the road.
Mighty Bite
New member
Russ: Chris is spot on with the compression braking. Coming down a steep
grade under compression will hold the brakes on steadily and they will get
hotter than a pistol. I try to avoid coming down a grade under compression
sufficient to activate the surge brakes, as much as possible. I let the rig go
freely, even to the point of using the gas pedal some, then as needed use the
brakes quickly to slow it way down, let it build speed again, brake again
and so on. A lot easier on the trailers running gear.
I recall one rep from a trailer mfg saying you're "not supposed to go downhill
with a surge brake trailer." Rather profound statement, but obviously flawed.
grade under compression will hold the brakes on steadily and they will get
hotter than a pistol. I try to avoid coming down a grade under compression
sufficient to activate the surge brakes, as much as possible. I let the rig go
freely, even to the point of using the gas pedal some, then as needed use the
brakes quickly to slow it way down, let it build speed again, brake again
and so on. A lot easier on the trailers running gear.
I recall one rep from a trailer mfg saying you're "not supposed to go downhill
with a surge brake trailer." Rather profound statement, but obviously flawed.
Some great advice above. We use a digital therometer (Lasser) to read the hub and brake temps regularly--especially after long use. You can lock out the accentuator by putting a stopper so that it will not come foreward--but only if you have a long grade where you feel that the truck brakes will handle it (or compression).
I would also consider brakes on both axles for the CD 25--many states require them. For mountain grades, even the compression braking may allow accentuation, and you are putting all of that on two discs, instead of one. We have used chain vise grips to lock out the brakes, another way is to put a switch on the back up lights, so that you can just flip them on, and that turns off the selenoid valve. Our specific trailer has a hole drilled thru the tongue and a pin can be put in thru just in front of the accentuator to lock them out.
Also with lots of mountain driving--consider electric over hydraulic--much better control.
We check the grease after every launch--you can over grease--as well as under grease.
I suspect it is the brakes, but you can tear down one of the bearings and look at them. If they are smooth, and no sign of heating, then go with the brake rebuild.
After our cross country trip, I had a good chance to look at our brakes as we changed out tires and very little use on the rotors. We also use compression braking and rarely use the service brakes on our truck on long grades. Good luck--and great to meet you all!
I would also consider brakes on both axles for the CD 25--many states require them. For mountain grades, even the compression braking may allow accentuation, and you are putting all of that on two discs, instead of one. We have used chain vise grips to lock out the brakes, another way is to put a switch on the back up lights, so that you can just flip them on, and that turns off the selenoid valve. Our specific trailer has a hole drilled thru the tongue and a pin can be put in thru just in front of the accentuator to lock them out.
Also with lots of mountain driving--consider electric over hydraulic--much better control.
We check the grease after every launch--you can over grease--as well as under grease.
I suspect it is the brakes, but you can tear down one of the bearings and look at them. If they are smooth, and no sign of heating, then go with the brake rebuild.
After our cross country trip, I had a good chance to look at our brakes as we changed out tires and very little use on the rotors. We also use compression braking and rarely use the service brakes on our truck on long grades. Good luck--and great to meet you all!
Hi Russ,
We've done that road with all the switchbacks coming south from Flaming Gorge. We also have the Duramax (love the transmission retarder with that Allison :thup ). On long downhill grades (we discovered this coming down from Lake Tahoe, into Carson City), if you keep any speed up, those trailer brakes will get hot and cause the bearings to toss out some grease. The only way we've found to eliminate this is: slow down. WAY down. To the point where you need a bit of gas to keep the rig moving. This keeps the surge brake from coming on.
The first time we had grease slinging around on a wheel, I thought we had a problem. Keep the bearings greased, keep the speed down on the downhill grades, and you may find that everything is just fine. We are over 18,000 miles on our King trailer... the brakes (original) still work, and the bearings are fine. I make it a point to check hub temp every time we stop; and since we learned to slow down downhill, no problems. We also try to flush the trailer/brakes/hubs everytime after launching or retrieving in saltwater. It is a pain in the butt, but worth the extra time.
When traveling through the Intermountain West, you frequently get to deal with long up/down grades. Brent has an electric controller for his trailer brakes - that looks like the way to go.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
We've done that road with all the switchbacks coming south from Flaming Gorge. We also have the Duramax (love the transmission retarder with that Allison :thup ). On long downhill grades (we discovered this coming down from Lake Tahoe, into Carson City), if you keep any speed up, those trailer brakes will get hot and cause the bearings to toss out some grease. The only way we've found to eliminate this is: slow down. WAY down. To the point where you need a bit of gas to keep the rig moving. This keeps the surge brake from coming on.
The first time we had grease slinging around on a wheel, I thought we had a problem. Keep the bearings greased, keep the speed down on the downhill grades, and you may find that everything is just fine. We are over 18,000 miles on our King trailer... the brakes (original) still work, and the bearings are fine. I make it a point to check hub temp every time we stop; and since we learned to slow down downhill, no problems. We also try to flush the trailer/brakes/hubs everytime after launching or retrieving in saltwater. It is a pain in the butt, but worth the extra time.
When traveling through the Intermountain West, you frequently get to deal with long up/down grades. Brent has an electric controller for his trailer brakes - that looks like the way to go.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
Well, I checked the bearings, they were O.K., so I disconnected the brakes and gave it a test run...they ran cool, so I must have had a brake or brakes dragging. We are off this morning and the trailer will go to the shop when we make it home. Thankyou to everyone for the timely advice, its nice to know you are not alone 1000 miles from home.
I would second Jim's excellent advice--we always start long grades at 35 mph--even though we can handle it at 55. We keep the truck geared down and never get over 50 on long grades. If we have to hit the brakes hard, we then give a little acellerator to be sure that the accentuator is not engaged after this use.
We carry a hand garden spray and clean the brake calipers, disc, wheels etc after any salt water dunk. You might also consider "Salt Away" in a dilute solution-to be sure that all of the salt is removed.
Also a never sieze on the lug threads to prevent rusting and galling.
Good traveling and glad that you have the problems solved. Russ and Toby were great folks to meet at Powell.
We carry a hand garden spray and clean the brake calipers, disc, wheels etc after any salt water dunk. You might also consider "Salt Away" in a dilute solution-to be sure that all of the salt is removed.
Also a never sieze on the lug threads to prevent rusting and galling.
Good traveling and glad that you have the problems solved. Russ and Toby were great folks to meet at Powell.
Here's a thought. Maybe if you have a pretty certain 'straight shot' coming down out of the mountains at say 50-55 mph, wouldn't the wind drag help hold the boat back somewhat and keep the brakes mostly off (assuming not needing to brake)? It would be a contest between the wind drag and the boat's weight/momentum.
Dora~Jean":2o25wtt1 said:Here's a thought. Maybe if you have a pretty certain 'straight shot' coming down out of the mountains at say 50-55 mph, wouldn't the wind drag help hold the boat back somewhat and keep the brakes mostly off (assuming not needing to brake)? It would be a contest between the wind drag and the boat's weight/momentum.
Steve-
You'd sure think the wind drag would hold the boat back some, but on 5, 6, 7% or more grades it seems the brakes are definitely necessary!
Add some curves to maneuver around, and you're definitely working those friction makers!
I use gearing down to employ engine compression to help slow the total package down so the tow vehicle brakes will not be so likely to overheat.
We've got about 3/4 of a mile of 9% grade east of Redding near Shingletown that is followed by 2 miles of 7% grade. Quite a test!
Joe.
Dora~Jean":w4qz30ef said:Here's a thought. Maybe if you have a pretty certain 'straight shot' coming down out of the mountains at say 50-55 mph, wouldn't the wind drag help hold the boat back somewhat and keep the brakes mostly off (assuming not needing to brake)? It would be a contest between the wind drag and the boat's weight/momentum.
Steve-
You'd sure think the wind drag would hold the boat back some, but on 5, 6, 7% or more grades it seems the brakes are definitely necessary!
Add some curves to maneuver around, and you're definitely working those friction makers!
I use gearing down to employ engine compression to help slow the total package down so the tow vehicle brakes will not be so likely to overheat.
We've got about 3/4 of a mile of 9% grade east of Redding near Shingletown that is followed by 2 miles of 7% grade. Quite a test!
Joe.
Absolutely, I was thinking 4-6% grade max -- and maybe with an updraft (headwind) to help a bit. But even using engine compression, which I also do by using 2nd gear on downgrades, applies the surge brakes. I have discs, and I really like the idea of using the backup light switch to close the brake fluid valve and stop further braking action on the trailer (thanks Dr. Bob).