Webasto / Espar knockoffs

A

AKMel

New member
Wondering if anyone has tried any of the Espar or Webasto heater knockoffs coming out of China or Russia? With the exception of Planar, most seem to apply their own brand name, but seem to be the same product other than cosmetic differences. One company states they make them for Chinese military vehicles. That might be the mother manufacturer. The price is very inexpensive. I ordered a 2K (Same size as my Espar D2) for my diesel pickup, just to check it out. Compared with what I paid for the Espar on our 22 Cruiser it’s reverse sticker shock: $158 direct from China, including shipping and a remote control. That’s assuming I get it. I would have ordered from the U.S. but most of what is out there is 5K or 8K, which is way too big for my space. My research indicated small is better because they need to run on high enough to keep soot from clogging the combustion chamber.

Did I throw $158 out the window?
 
AKMel":2morqpgb said:
Wondering if anyone has tried any of the Espar or Webasto heater knockoffs coming out of China or Russia? With the exception of Planar, most seem to apply their own brand name, but seem to be the same product other than cosmetic differences. One company states they make them for Chinese military vehicles. That might be the mother manufacturer. The price is very inexpensive. I ordered a 2K (Same size as my Espar D2) for my diesel pickup, just to check it out. Compared with what I paid for the Espar on our 22 Cruiser it’s reverse sticker shock: $158 direct from China, including shipping and a remote control. That’s assuming I get it. I would have ordered from the U.S. but most of what is out there is 5K or 8K, which is way too big for my space. My research indicated small is better because they need to run on high enough to keep soot from clogging the combustion chamber.

Did I throw $158 out the window?
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let us know how it turns out? :mrgreen: :beer
 
Thanks Mel,

Now all I've done this weekend is research those dang heaters!! Man, I sure got sucked into that one. I'll probably buy one by the end of the week.....

John
Scallywag
 
I think I'm going cheap...but after some extensive bench testing!! At least my boat is insured, unlike some others....

If insurance comes a calling, not a peep, Okay?

John
Scallywag
 
I finally got a tracking update. Mine is in the Elk Grove, CA, USPS processing center. So should be here in a few days. Slow boat to China has new meaning.

I too have been continuing research. It's difficult to say whether shippers just put their own label on these. I want 2KW, not 5KW, and the 2KW seemed scarce in the US, so ordered from China. But I've seen some videos where folks ordered 2KW and got 5KW. Here's hoping. Customer service is almost not existent if it's wrong. That and I wanted the remote control so I can start it in the truck from the kitchen (I hope).

It sure looks like they put a different label on the same heater. Many of the U-tube videos seem to be UK or Aussie. As for whether I'd put it on a boat, I notice the stickers have the CE rating, which is somewhat like our UL. You can look it up if interested. The question is whether the Chinese just put anything on the sticker without the testing. I suspect not as you might not be legally able to sell in Europe without that CE rating. Haven't come across any safety warnings from users in what I have researched.

Scallywag: You made me laugh.
I did put an Espar D2 (2KW or about 7000 BTU) in our 22 cruiser a few years ago. It's not Au Kai. Ours is C'esta. It's about the perfect size heater for ab 22 IMO. And it was a fun project. Some of you gave valuable input. I enjoyed making it as unobtrusive as possible. My only complaint was the Espar controller on-off differential was a little bigger than I'd like. If that differential is closer on what's coming I'm wondering if they are interchangable?

One problem I had on the cruiser was heater exhaust fumes. I had to pull the exhaust tube off the heater and use high temp (600º) ultra silicone to seal it. That took care of the problem. I put a CO sensor on the boat too.

Will update when I get the heater.
 
Pictures? I'd love to see your installation.
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Pix would be better, but I'm reduced to words. I didn't want to intrude into my wife's cabinet space or have ducts going helter-skelter. I tried holding the unit different areas before deciding to placed it high as possible below the bow end of the sink, (just clearing the sink so it couldn't vibrate). I mounted it on a bracket attached to the cabinet wall below the back of the helm seat. I had to do a little fabricating with some plumber strap to support the floppy bracket that came with the heater. The tank went on the opposite side of the cabinet wall under the helm seat, adjacent to the heater. It's close enough to the door so I can fill it with a funnel. The pump is just below the heater, and the fuel line goes through a small hole in the common wall (we hear the pump click a little). I put a small clear-plastic VW beetle fuel filter (It lays horizontal) in the line to catch any possible contaminants. Plus a small valve at the tank so I don't have any fuel run out if I take the tank out to fill it. I forget how I mounted the tank, but it is quickly detachable.

The hot air duct from the heater does a 90˚ and goes straight down where it makes another 90 and hooks to the back side of the adjustable head at the floor. The T-stat/controller is mounted at the helm. I can reach it from the berth without getting up. Combustion air is drawn from inside the cabin just starboard of the helm seat. I routed the exhaust in a gradual descent to the hull fitting so I didn't need the special fitting that bleeds trapped moisture. Exhaust tucks behind the sink drain so nothing is apt to touch it when it is hot. It does get hot.

That made for a nice clean install with minimal ducting. But we found the berths didn't get much heat so I eventually routed a return air duct forward to the sleeping area. (we boat in cold water in Alaska so that might not be an issue for other folks.) The duct tie-wraps to a wiring bundle along the inside of the starboard hull and terminates alongside the console so it draws return air from the berth area.

I hope that is clear enough. Sorry about no pix. I took some and sent admin several requests for a photo album but unfortunately never got a response.
 
Update: I have been tracking my diesel heater for a month. Today I got informed it was delivered and signed for..... to someone in Warsaw, Indiana.

I already filed a dispute. We'll see how good their customer service is. I hope there is a chance they put a wrong tracking number on the package and mine will still come.
 
From a 2015 post I made.

I put an Espar Airtronic D2 in Discovery a few years ago, never really did use it until this year. It has performed flawlessly for us this summer in South East Alaska. It drops into the low 50's each night and we turn everything off overnight. I can hit the on switch and within 10 minutes or less, the cabin is a toasty 70 degrees. There is a dial that increases or decreases the temperature, but not an actual degree setting. I dial down the heat and we can leave it on all day maintaining a comfortable cabin temp. We use the Wallas for cooking only. I bought the Espar on eBay for about $800.00, it was a truckers model. I had to buy a thru hull fitting to exhaust through the cabin wall, and a few air vent parts. I think they came from Sure Marine in the Seattle area. I can recommend the Espar without reservation. There are pictures of my install in the Discovery photo albums. Espar Airtronic D2 install on a TC255
_________________
 
Here is how I look at it. German engineering or Chinese engineering. Hmmm. Let me think about that.

Ever used Harbor Freight tools? Ever drive a German car?

Nuff said.
 
localboy":zf8haiyz said:
Ever used Harbor Freight tools?
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I've had very good experiences with HF tools. You have to be careful what you buy, but in general their tools are high value for my purposes. I've purchased floor jacks, hand trucks, a vise, large hammer drill, steel bar bender, and more. Very happy with all of it and saved LOTS of money.
localboy":zf8haiyz said:
Ever drive a German car?
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Yes. Had a VW Rabbit and loved it. Bought it new in '78 and I understand the quality and reliability has gone down since then. I've driven Porsche and Audi. They were fun, but I can't afford them and the owner's I know complain that they are often in the shop and expensive to maintain. Toyota on the other hand...

I certainly get your point and in many cases it's valid, but things aren't always that cut and dry. Politics aside, if a Chinese or Russian heater is a bit rough around the edges, but it can be determined that it does the job and is reliable and safe, AND costs 1/5 to 1/2 of the cost of a German one, I'll enjoy the warmth it provides just as much as that provided by a spendy German heater, and put the money I saved towards an autopilot. ;)
 
The reliability of cars has been demonstrated to be inversely proportional to their list price.

Some Chinese and Eastern European products may be kind of crude compared to some Western European products. But generally speaking almost anyone can repair them with common tools. Your fine German automobile might be nice when it runs, but when it doesn't you need a highly skilled technician with a room full of computer equipment to tell you which expensive custom part needs to be replaced.

In the example video of the Chinese Webasco knock off, the point is made that the control module of the Webasco is potted and sealed where as the Chinese one is not and has exposed components. The conclusion is that the Webasco must be better. However, if the control module of the Webasco fails due some individual component failure, the whole control module must be replaced. On the Chinese on you can simply replace the defect part for maybe a buck or two and carry on. The Webasco control module probably costs at least a $100. So which one is actually better? Depends on your point of view.

Diesel heaters are not rocket science. The principle of operation is well known and they are pretty easy to make. Given that the Chinese are world leaders in some types of technology, building a reliable and robust heater should be no big deal for them.
 
The reliability of cars has been demonstrated to be inversely proportional to their list price.
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Yugo

We just traded in an Audi A6. It was trouble free--except-the sensor systems alignment costs were outrageous. (A stolen sensor cost about $5,000 to replace. The sensor cost about $150. All of the auxiliary systems and alignment were what cost.

Probably the basic Harbor Freight "tools" are OK--and I have a couple power tools, purchased for limited use.--but I have had some early failures--and try and stick with better brands, such as Milwaukee, DeWalt or Porter Cable. I have had better luck with Ryobi--even if they don't have as good a reputation.

Sorry for the derail...back to heaters.
 
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