Weather Forecast Decisions SE Alaska

P

Progers

New member
Hi,

New to the forum. I’m a prospective buyer who’s kind of become obsessed with these boats. I’ve read quite a few posts about rough weather piloting and the capability of c-dory’s. Including slowing down, trim tabs etc. along with several peoples accounts of getting caught out in less than ideal conditions.

We’re mostly interested in long distance cruising, going out for 1-3 weeks at a time. For us it’s all about getting to anchorages and exploring via kayaks, dingy etc.

My main question is what is everyone’s weather forecast limit? We’re in juneau, so it’s primarily wind waves and close chop. Let’s say you’re planning a trip when do you GO, and when do you stay put or cancel ? 10kts & 2 ft seas? 15kts & 3 ft seas? 20kts & 4f seas? 25kts & 5ft seas? Etc.

I know decisions depend on the circumstances, but do any of you guys have a rule of thumb?

Also, if any of you have upsized from the 22 cruiser to the 23 or 25 did that extend your comfort level allowing you to run when the forecast bumps up a notch?

Thanks,

Patrick
 
Progers":2ttkvyhf said:
Hi,

New to the forum. I’m a prospective buyer who’s kind of become obsessed with these boats. I’ve read quite a few posts about rough weather piloting and the capability of c-dory’s. Including slowing down, trim tabs etc. along with several peoples accounts of getting caught out in less than ideal conditions.

We’re mostly interested in long distance cruising, going out for 1-3 weeks at a time. For us it’s all about getting to anchorages and exploring via kayaks, dingy etc.

My main question is what is everyone’s weather forecast limit? We’re in juneau, so it’s primarily wind waves and close chop. Let’s say you’re planning a trip when do you GO, and when do you stay put or cancel ? 10kts & 2 ft seas? 15kts & 3 ft seas? 20kts & 4f seas? 25kts & 5ft seas? Etc.

I know decisions depend on the circumstances, but do any of you guys have a rule of thumb?

Also, if any of you have upsized from the 22 cruiser to the 23 or 25 did that extend your comfort level allowing you to run when the forecast bumps up a notch?

Thanks,

Patrick
Click to expand...


I won't leave the slip at 20 & 4 its not a problem for the boat its me, been there done that don't do it on purpose any longer.

Have been caught in gusts to 50 & 10' other than the pinch mark in the helm seat no issues.

Was caught in 12' in the old 22, was able to duck in behind an island, set the hook and wait it out(4 days)
:thup

These boats will take more water than I will! :thup :thup
 
First, The 25 will be a bit more comfortable in the higher wind/wave. Even in 3' seas it can be uncomfortable. However with the areas around Juneau there are a multitude of places to go--especially when you have 3 to 4 weeks. You know the weather there better than we do--but we spent 4 summers in our Cal 46 and one in our C Dory 25 in SE AK, and generally there was one really nasty day--and then several which were ones where we could travel. On the really nasty day-even 80 footers were not moving.

One day, going back to Canada, heading to Foggy Bay, we stayed a little too long fishing, and the wind had come up to 30, with 3 to 4 foot seas. We were battling along, until a purse seiner came along--57 feet trying to go at 7 knots--even he was slowed down with larger wavers. We pulled in behind him--and did fine at the 6 to 7 knots.
 
I'm not sure I completely agree with Bob. I upgraded from the 22 to the 25 last year. I had my 22 for 10 years. I'm not so sure the 25 handles more water any better. I've had both boats in 3-4 foot short spaced chop on our Great Lakes. I had the 22 in 7-8 foot chop, but not by choice. I've also ran it in 5' following seas, mostly short spaced. In the 2-3' stuff, both boats seem to ride pretty much the same. They pound! Slow down and the ride is better. The 25 is heavier and wider, and doesn't list as badly as the 22 when passengers move around. The scuppers on the 25 are more of a disadvantage in that they tend to be under water with any weight on board. I loved the 22, but the 25 does provide more room, and the enclosed head. As for go/no go, depends largely on the captain. I've gone in 3 footers when others have stayed back. I've continued in 4-5 footers and stayed in port for 2 footers. Depends a lot on my schedule and location. If I have a short distance with places to turn into, I'm willing to take a little more wave action. If I'm going to be out in the open with no coves/ports to turn into, I'm going to want calmer water. I felt safe, but very uncomfortable in the 7-8' seas, and would never have gone out if I knew it was going to get that bad. (Our seas/waves in the Great Lakes are of short duration, and more like chop than swells.) All that said, I think either the 22 or 25 can reasonably handle up to 3' chop, but at slower speeds so as not to pound. Beyond that, depends a lot on the spacing of the waves, and rather they are on the bow, following or broadside.
 
The scuppers on the 25 are more of a disadvantage in that they tend to be under water with any weight on board.
Click to expand...

Colby, is it possible that your scuppers are mis -placed? I believe that was the case on Sea Otter. We never had water back up in our scuppers on the 25, and we run a heavy boat, and a freezer in the cockpit.

Also the older 25's were not self bailing to the degree that newer ones are. The 2002, 2003 and some 2004 (?) had the scuppers all of the way aft. There was the false upper deck, and then a hatch with raised sides all of the way aft--water could flood into the bilge thru this aft hatch.

Colby I have had several occasions to run along with the 22 and 25 together in rough seas.--in one instance Marie was running our 22, and I was running a 25--in my opinion, the 25, if properly handled, will do better than the 22 in rough water. I have not run on the Great Lakes--and maybe the waves there are different??? I have run in a lot of areas--and there are many factors which give a variety of wave forms. There are also a lot of factors in the way a boat is trimmed especially the C 'Dory.
 
My rule of thumb was always stay put if possible whenever the windspeed forecast exceeds 15 knots or the wind waves exceed 3 feet. We were out in much worse from time to time, but I cannot recommend it as a steady diet. Those are just the roughest measures, however. Lower winds opposing significant currents can produce very nasty stuff. Period between waves can be more important than wave height. Yesterday's big wind 100 miles off shore can be more important than today's little breeze up close. Nothing beats experience and local knowledge.
 
JoLee & I have spent some time cruising SE Alaska over the last 19 years in our CD 22 & agree long before the boat reaches really dangerous conditions those inside will be well shaken & stirred. We try to avoid that, but to often the weather reports & actual conditions can be at odds. I won’t attempt to describe those here, but they are included with much fun exploring in SE Alaska written up here on 8 extended cruises there.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=29167

Most of the time, as Bob alluded, in between storms the inside areas make for pleasant passage, there are definite exceptions, as areas like the Lynn Canal, Inian Passage out to Cross Sound, Cape Ommaney on the tip of Baranof Island & Point Retreat close to Juneau always take extra consideration.

Only as a very general rule, can I describe the basic wind conditions, that I would consider not leaving a port or anchorage for pleasure & that’s more than 15 mph on the bow or 25 on the stern in areas of long fetch & I’d rather have 25 on the stern then 15 on the bow. The majority of the time varying wind & tide directions, wave periods, water depths & land shapes meeting the water like points & capes & narrowing areas are the real determining factor & that takes personal experience or local knowledge of the different areas in an area to make the better outcome’s & as I mentioned before the weather reports can be wrong. That’s when I’m generally glad to be in my CD22 getting knocked about, but not concerned for our safety.

Jay
 
I have a 2003 CD25. One of the first mods I made was to replace the rubber flap scuppers with the ping pong ball type. I just saw a potential problem and found a better solution. Later I found a small amount of water in the bilge (1-3 cups) after every trip, After a lot of sleuthing, I found there was a leak between the deck plate and the transom right below the port side scupper. I sealed it, no problems since. I also added screws to securely hold down the shoe-box type lid over the compartment at the rear where an optional holding tank was to go. There are also half-moon shaped openings at each rear corner for cabling and hose routing, I sealed those tight with chunks of closed cell foam. The only things left where water can seep in from the cockpit are the poorly designed hatches C-Dory used, but those are easily replaced if desired. So far, the small amount of water that gets in (primarily while washing the cockpit) hasn't bugged me enough to replace the hatches (2).

As far as seaworthiness, as people have said, the boat will handle far more than the passengers, and I've been caught in conditions that no one should be boating in. Personally, I don't like being in 3+ foot seas for more than about 2 hours, wears out the captain (and passengers) too much. I've never owned a CD22, so I don't have first hand experience to compare their handling in rough seas and wind. But on several cruises where conditions had deteriorated, I found my 25 handled following seas much better with more control than the 22's, and when heading into chop (2-3 ft), the 22's seemed to do better (they were able to go faster). This is most likely because the 22's have a sharper entry at the bow. So there are pluses and minuses like just about any choice.
 
We crossed the Georgia Straits last year in 35k winds from Nanaimo to Madeira Park. It kept us busy but never concerned with the boat. I would certainly avoid a beam sea in those conditions and change course accordingly. That's an unpleasant ride.
 
I cross the Strait of Juan de Fuca, seems like frequently. It is 25 miles of Beam On seas, cross tidal current flow, and the winds are generally from on side or the other so they are either with or against the tidal current. I have learned to minimize the wind issues generally, by leaving before sun up. In the summer that means I leave the dock at close to 0400, gets me out to the “real Strait” (out from behind the spit or island protection) at sunup, and that gives about 2 hours, maybe 3, before the morning winds start to kick in.

I check the weather (buoy reports) to the east and west of me. About 10-15 miles to each side, and one buoy near the center of the crossing. Winds of 10 or above, going against the tidal current are a no go, because those winds will build, and the waves will become 3 foot chop and white caps. (That is based on the barometer readings.) 15 knot winds with the tidal flow are the upper limit. Rapid barometric changes are reason to hold as well. Fog is not a particular issue because I run my radar always, (and AIS) so comfortable with that, unless the visibility is down to less that 100 feet. That would make progress speed to slow to make the crossing in the current tidal set.

The 25 mile crossing from the Sequim Bay outer mark to the Cattle Pass entrance is usually about 2.25 hours, and run at about 12 -14 knots depending on conditions. There is generally some tacking into the tide, so that accounts for the speed distance variation.

Yes, I have been in heavier water, conditions I didn’t plan on and normally stay out of. I don’t really like following seas, (much prefer head on), but have been in 8-10 foot following seas, and 30+ knots of wind, also from the stern. I ran side by side with a 25 for about 15 miles in 3-5 foot head on seas, and they didn’t appear to be slamming as much as I was, so they could run slightly faster. We were both chopping the throttle as we topped the waves, but the 25 was able to gain more headway than I could. In that case it was wind against tide so they waves were short coupled.

Will the C-Dory handle the heavy water, YES, much more that the skipper and crew, but IF you know what you are doing, it can be safe.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

9_Sept_Seq_2019_Cal.thumb.jpg
 
I have had the snot beat of me enough times to know I am going to have it happen again. If you can go when it's perfect, that is a great time to go. I know I like the 10 kt wind and 2 foot seas forecast and the 15 kt and 3 foot seas is ok. After that, you'll be fine, but you will be going pretty slow and probably not worth it at all.
 
T.R. Bauer":387ktfws said:
I have had the snot beat of me enough times to know I am going to have it happen again. If you can go when it's perfect, that is a great time to go. I know I like the 10 kt wind and 2 foot seas forecast and the 15 kt and 3 foot seas is ok. After that, you'll be fine, but you will be going pretty slow and probably not worth it at all.
Click to expand...

You have to consider which way the wind is going in relation ship to the tidal current.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

9_Sept_Seq_2019_Cal.thumb.jpg
 
Back
Top