Water Under Aft Cockpit in 07 Venture

I also have an '08 C-Dory built Venture 23'.

Since I have the 3 piece interior, where and how many of these inspection ports should be cut? Obviously, one at the rear of both the cabin (near the door on the inside) and the cockpit (near where the gas tanks sit) is required, but where exactly would a 3rd inspection port be required?

Also, any idea approximately how long time-wise it would take to cut each hole and properly install the deck plate inspection covers?

Tanks for the hints and tips.

Regards,
Dan Denver
 
My CC23 (GXK23034J607) is an '07 model year built in October 2006, hull #34 (IF I'm interpreting the HIN correctly). It has the water tank forward. I am planning to install access/inspection plates but haven't yet so I can't verify the bulkhead or cockpit floor support. It's good to have this kind of info before cutting into the deck.

Thanks!

/david
 
Hi Dan,

If yours is an 08 made by C-Dory (or Fluid Marine), then you would have the same configuration as Matt has and Bill described. That is, the bulkhead does not extend to the to the bottom of the hull and the stringer does not go down the middle under the aft cockpit deck. I would start with the aft inspection plate between the two tanks. Using the cover of the inspection plate (4, 5, or 6" opening), mark its position between the two tanks with the front edge even with the front of the tanks. I would drill a small inspection hole (1/4") next to the inside edge of the marked area to cut out. you could then insert a bent wire and determine that you have no center brace which is likely. If you do, one inspection plate will still work, but it has to be off-center. The spar down the middle on our boat attaches to the bottom of the aft deck, but it does not attached to the hull bottom. There is about 1/2" space between the two.

After you cut out the hole, you can run a hose forward and see if it goes beyond the door and into the area under the cabin. If there is no barrier due to the bulkhead blocking the way into the cabin, you could stop with just one opening aft. This would allow you to remove any water, and using the exhaust of a wet vac, you could insert the hose under the deck and blow ventilating air into the void between the hull and the decks. Matt and I chose to cut an opening forward under where the porta-potti sits to make ventilating more effective and able to use a fan.

The only reason to cut a hole next the cabin door would be if the bulkhead is attached to the hull and you feel that using one opening in the cabin and one opening in the aft cockpit would not allow you to effectively ventilate these two areas. This was why I cut an inspection hole next to the door in the cabin to allow me to cross ventilate from the opening forward, and the two next to the door in the aft cockpit. Matt found no foam under his cabin sole or under the aft deck (see his photo album--Pacific Wanderer?).

After positioning the cover plate with its flange to determine the location, use the lid as directed to use as a template to draw the opening to be cut-out. I used a 1/2 bit to drill 3 or 4 openings on the edge of the circle in which to insert the blade of a jig saw (It's about 1 1/4" thick, don't let the drill bit punch through and go through the hull). But the there should be plenty of clearance. This would take about 10 minutes. I then under-cut the opening (I bent a nail at 90 degrees and inserted the pointed end in the drill. I used the head like a router undercut in about 1/4") and dressed it with epoxy. I used silicone to seat the flange. This can take a while (the epoxy has to set), and cutting out the foam or on our boat balsa can take 30' or more.

Again, hopefully you can go with only one opening aft and/or one forward.
But if you have a bulkhead protruding to the hull, you're looking at a minimum of two (or like me--five). Hope this helps and hopefully others will give you additional advice better than mine.

Tim and Dave Kinghorn
 
If you plan to cut an inspection hole in the cabin sole, be aware that the hull next to the back dinette seat and next to the cabinet door on the otherside (just inside the cabin door) is very close to the bottom of the cabin sole at the two sides (about 1/4" clearance underneath). Therefore, be very cautious when drilling holes! Under the middle of the cabin sole, just in front of the door, the space is closer to an inch to 1 1/2" clearance. The depth of clearance forward in the porta-potti area is 2-3", but aft near the sides of the door, the hull slopes up and meets the cabin sole.

Tim and Dave Kinghorn
 
Best Day":3qa3pxxu said:
Ohh, and the saga continues. Sorry for all the problems you guys are having.

To help clarify why your bulkhead to the rear of the cabin continues all the way down to the hull. Sometime in 07 the Cape Cruiser guys changed the way the interior of the boat was made. They went from three interior molds (cockpit, cabin, v-berth) to a one piece interior mold. When they did this they simplified the build process, made a stronger boat, eliminated potential leak spots, cut down on labor costs and put a larger 30 gallon water tank in the bow freeing up needed interior space. It was another step in the evolution of these boats. When they lost their lawsuit to C-Dory and had to hand over the molds, they gave C-Dory the older 3 piece interior molds and not the new one piece :monty . So as far as I know the C-Dory made Ventures use the inferior (in my opinion) three piece interiors. Know this I believe (but may not be correct) that if you have a bow water tank you will have a bulkhead (between the cockpit and cabin) that continues down to the hull and a support running fore to aft in the middle of the cockpit floor.

I hope this info helps. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this info.

Bill
Click to expand...

So...am I correct to conclude that very few of the superior "one piece" were built?

-Greg
 
Be careful about cutting an inspection plate between the fuel tanks. On mine there is a support for the deck that runs up the middle and would probably be bad to cut.

Does anyone have any construction pics? Those would be most helpful.

Mine is an '08 Cape Cruiser. I believe it was the last one made by them.

David
 
Tanks for the very helpful comments Tim and Dave and the many others who have written. Greatly appreciate your taking the time to respond.

Regrettably, since I am challenged by changing incandescent light bulbs, I will likely need to employ a professional for assistance in this matter.

Tanks again,
Dan
 
mailbox101":1waur5jo said:
Mine is an '08 Cape Cruiser. I believe it was the last one made by them.

David
Click to expand...

Hello David,

I'm curious about your '08 CC. Could you post your VIN as that would show the model year of the hull as well as when it was built.

/david
 
Sure.

It is GXK26031A708

My understanding of the breakdown is as follows:

GXK = CAPE CRUISER BOAT WORKS
26 = Hull Serial Number, which on CCs/CDs is based on the Hull Series Number, in this case 26, and the Hull Number, in this case 031.

A7 = Date of Certification or Date of Manufacture, A=January 7=2007
08 = Model Year 2008

This USCG lists C.C.B.W. as being in business from February 28, 2005 until August 15, 2007.

The Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin gives a date in March 2008 as the date of completion.

When I bought the boat, in August of 2008, I was told that this was one of several that were sold, for cash, to the dealer as part of asset liquidation.

I have yet to find the secondary HIN, but the one on the Transom matches the MSO and the bill of sale, and the boat did not yet have motors when I bought it.

Anyway, that's about all I know.

David
 
mailbox101":ngszddvq said:
Sure.

It is GXK26031A708

My understanding of the breakdown is as follows:

GXK = CAPE CRUISER BOAT WORKS
26 = Hull Serial Number, which on CCs/CDs is based on the Hull Series Number, in this case 26, and the Hull Number, in this case 031.

A7 = Date of Certification or Date of Manufacture, A=January 7=2007
08 = Model Year 2008

This USCG lists C.C.B.W. as being in business from February 28, 2005 until August 15, 2007.

The Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin gives a date in March 2008 as the date of completion.

When I bought the boat, in August of 2008, I was told that this was one of several that were sold, for cash, to the dealer as part of asset liquidation.

I have yet to find the secondary HIN, but the one on the Transom matches the MSO and the bill of sale, and the boat did not yet have motors when I bought it.

Anyway, that's about all I know.

David
Click to expand...

SWEET!! You've really got a 2008 model year Cape Cruiser.

On my 23 there is a second HIN plate on the back side of the console where all the wires and steering hoses connect to the helm.

Did you rig your boat yourself? What engine did you go with?

Thanks,

/david
 
Thanks. I don't think there were any changes from the 2007 model year though.

Jay at King Salmon rigged the engines for me as part of the deal. We put on twin Honda 90's, and have been very happy with them.

Because of the market crash, only now have I finally gotten around to electronics. In the next few days a chart-plotter, mounted radio, and Flir will finally replace an iPhone, hand-held radio, and moonlight. No more heading to shore because the moon is setting. Yea!

To get back on subject....

Does anyone have pictures, or any ideas, of whats under the deck of a 26' Cape Cruiser or Venture? I am particularly interested in the location of anything vertical that separates the space, as is done on the 25' CD.

David
 
We're back in AZ, and I've begun my project-list for "Katmai."

For reference, my HIN is: GXK23017A606.

So far, here's what I've done/learned:

1) Removed most of the galley shelving for painting. Nothing learned; just work.

2) Removed the anchor and rode - no sign of leakage in the anchor locker, and the drain hole appears to have been properly drilled (NO gap between hull and inner liner). I caulked bulkhead area anyway. I figured it wouldn't hurt anything, but God what an awkward place to work.

3) Drilled three 1" holes between the fuel tanks which will be covered with a 6" inspection port. No sign of water, no cockpit support beam, and no balsa coring. The area is foamed with pre-cut foam (not injected foam, you could see the cut marks in the foam).

My next step will be to cut-in the 6.5" hole for the inspection port, but due to the narrow space (about 1.25") I plan to cut off a jigsaw blade so it doesn't thrust(down) too far. I was expecting more space beneath the deck, but don't want to drill down any farther lest I go through the Hull!!

Eventually I'll install an inspection port forward of the cabin door, but that will be tomorrow (or the day after...). I KNOW there is water there (I've sponged-out a lot over the past month, but I'm really confused as to where it might becoming from. I've inspected all deck fittings, rubrail, etc for sign of leakage - Nothing.

There does not appear to be any anchor locker leakage, nor any water beneath the cockpit deck. I'm wondering if this could be condensation that migrated beneath the liner, became entrapped, and couldn't dry out?

I'm stumped. Any Ideas????

Best,
Casey
 
Finally found the water!

I drilled the hole for an access port just inside the cabin door, and went deeper ... and there was the water. Somehow I feel vindicated.

After the 6.5" hole was cut-in I pumped thirteen quarts of water from the void beneath the deck. (An aquarium pump worked very well to get rid of most of the water.) Changing the angle of the boat (on the trailer) didn't seem to make any difference in the amount of water in the void.

The airspace is drying now, and in a couple days I'll install the Beckson plate and begin cutting the hole for the aft inspection port.

Casey
 
Casey":3ekbxavm said:
Finally found the water!

I drilled the hole for an access port just inside the cabin door, and went deeper ... and there was the water. Somehow I feel vindicated.

After the 6.5" hole was cut-in I pumped thirteen quarts of water from the void beneath the deck. (An aquarium pump worked very well to get rid of most of the water.) Changing the angle of the boat (on the trailer) didn't seem to make any difference in the amount of water in the void.

The airspace is drying now, and in a couple days I'll install the Beckson plate and begin cutting the hole for the aft inspection port.

Casey
Click to expand...

Casey, congratulations! Of course you still have to figure out how that much water got there in the first place, right? Seems like an awful lot for condensation.

You've drilled small holes between the fuel tanks and didn't find any water. Was that true even if you tipped the bow up significantly? If so, I'm really puzzled. In my boat, I can't think of a way there is water under the cabin floor, and not under the cockpit floor. I don't think the Alaskan bulkhead connection with the hull is water tight, and my theory has evolved into thinking the water gets in somewhere in the cockpit (I have eliminated the anchor locker and the water tank as sources), and migrates under the cabin doorway into the cabin.

I think with the boat at rest, water inside the hull will settle somewhere near midship. I understood that one of the reasons for the raised and rearward sloping cockpit sole is to force water to the stern sump, thus eliminating (theoretically!) the need for a bilge pump near the cabin door.

I have to think the water is getting in through improperly sealed fuel tank mounting screws, or cracks in sole-to-hull seams at or near the transom. Have you checked any of these things?

I've resigned myself to an inspection plate just aft of the cabin door, and maybe one just inside the cabin, depending on what the bulkhead-to-hull connection looks like under the door. I'm thinking I may not even bother with one all the way back, although maybe that would facilitate ventilation.

I would love to abandon my current thinking on this altogether. I'd be happy as a clam if the problem really is condensation, there are no leaks in the cockpit, and all I need is a small access hole for the occasional use of an aquarium pump!

Glad to hear your project is coming along so well. I'm still looking for time and courage enough to start mine.
 
It would appear to me that if you were to place a few holes in the indent of the slump that the water that is getting caught between the deck and cockpit floor would have a way to escape and would put it in position to be pumped out by the bildge pump.

Of course you could treat the holes with the Dr. Bob Epoxey treatment. I would think that the inspection plate between the fuel tanks would not be neccessary. However the one in t cabin in front of the Alaskan bulkhead may still be handy in the event the water intrusion is not flowin to the cockpit area.

Just my 2cents worth.
 
Bill - yes, I agree - thirteen quarts is just too much for the problem to have been condensation, so the search-for-a-cause continues.

Mike - I thought about drilling a hole in the bilge pump sump but didn't have anything to drill a hole for a small bilge plug on that back leaning surface. On second thought I might have just drilled with a long bit through the bilge plug hole itself and enlarged it with my Dremel tool, to accommodate a small bilge plug. BUT ... I've already begun the larger inspection port hole, so I'm pretty committed at this point. Before this is finished I may, in fact, BE committed!)

So far I've drilled far enough into the aft inspection port hole to find water - but haven't found water yet (and the foam inside seems dry). I'll continue later today, and try not to screw-up in the process. (Cutting holes in one's own boat is akin to self-surgery; painful.)

As for the possibility of water coming from a cabin bulkhead/cockpit joint, it's possible I guess, but the water would have to migrate forward (usually uphill). But at the same time I find it Very difficult to believe the bulkhead/cockpit forms a water tight barrier -- but so far that's what I'm finding. (But that may be proven wrong later today if/when I discover water in the soon-to-be cut-in inspection hole.)

The thread is taking on a life of it's own, and unless you have one of these boats, it's probably painfully tedious but we appreciate the C-Brat's indulgence in our whining!

Best,
Casey
 
Casey,

Obviously, I can't speak for everyone, but I do find this interesting. I'm cheering for you to find the source of the water and resolve the issue. My heart goes out to you.

Best of luck,
 
Thanks Sarge. After this afternoon's "surgery," a Sundowner Scotch made me feel better....

The hole between the fuel tanks is cut-in. Interestingly, it was Much easier than cutting the hole inside the door. I don't know why, but it was definitely easier.

The cockpit deck lay-up was essentially the same as found in the cabin deck, but with more poured foam beneath. After cutting out the deck, I chopped-up (technical boat maker's term) about 2-3" of foam down to the hull. Interestingly, there was no standing water but the final <1/4" of foam was wet. I was expecting to find considerably more saturated foam. I guess I'm happy with the result. But the question of where the water is coming from ... remains.

The raw edges of the balsa were sealed and drying overnight. Tomorrow I'll finish the Beckson plate installations and begin wrapping-up the process (and proceed to other, funner boat projects).

After today's exploratory boat surgery I'm still perplexed by issue of water intrusion. Since the water appears to be fresh water, I'm assuming it rain that has gotten-in. How, I don't know (no obvious signs), but with the inspection ports I'll be able to get a better understanding of
when it comes in, and that will be a help.

Stay tuned.

Best,
Casey
 
I have a 2007 C-Dory 22', I have had water under the Cockpit floor, last year. I found 2 little holes in the outside floor where it joins the bulk head under the Door. On the inside, under the Door there is a little hole I have left open if water gets under the Cockpit floor it will run out of the little hole on the inside under the Door. We had a lot rain in Fl this winter and I had water comming in under the Door I just have checked to see where it was comming from. What I did was take and Air hose with a Basket Ball Needle on it and from the inside under the Door put that Needle in the little hole where water was comming from. Took Soppy Water and Placed on the outside along the edge of the floor below the door there were several air bubbles showing up along where the floor joins the bulkhead. I am going to cut out some of the sealer and reseal all the way from one side to the other. Hope this will help someone.
Jim Jessup Westfield NC If this is not to clear PM me your Phone# and I will call you.
 
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