Water in Fuel Tank!

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Pat Anderson

New member
Our great vacation was marred only a little by a somewhat inconvenient situation of water in the gas tank. We replaced the fuel-water separator cartridge and emptied the bowl with the water sensor under the cowling, and when the alarm went off, we shut down and drained the bowl under the cartridge. This method allowed us to cruise for hours at at a time before the alarm went off, but I obviously need to address this before heading to Lake Powell in 6 weeks or so.

So some questions:

1. Best way to drain all the fuel out of the tank (it is now about half full, maybe 50 gallons)? Would a hobby pump like this work if I remove the quick disconnect and add some additional hose? [On edit: this one looks like the ticket, but it is a little pricey...]

2. There is really very little water in what I am getting now. How about just treating it with Heet in the red bottle?

3. Is there some kind of fuel water separator that has a sensor so you can drain it BEFORE it gets to the engine? It seems like with the crappy gas we have now, a dual fuel water separator with sensor setup would be the best prevention, no?

I have a place here to get ethanol free gas (the Cenex store in Ferndale, if you are ever in Whatcom County, WA), and will treat it with regular Stabil, once I have the water all out of the tank. I have been using regular Stabil, not the blue Stabil or Seafoam, so maybe I have just been skating for some time and this was bound to pop up.

Anyway, thanks for any (good) advice!
 
Hey Pat, whole thread on the subject here:

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=13991



And here's a picture of Dr Bob's set uup. The only downside ( you having only one fuel tank) is having a tank large enough to polish it into and then back into the boat tank


Summer_2009_SD_card_228.jpg

I'm sure there's much in his past posts about the hookup, etc. He's got a LOT of them, happy searching and good luck with the water!!

Charlie
 
I have the same Racor filter (with clear plastic bottom) mounted in Katmai. It seems to work well, and allows me to occasioanlly inspect the bottom (plastic portion) for any water "bubbles) that get caught. So far it seems to have worked very well, and I've only caught a tiny bit of water (and drained it) through occasional inspections.

My impression is that this arrangement works as an excellent upstream filter (it filters the fuel right out of the tank, and before it gets to the engine), so the engine mounted filter seldom requires inspection/changing.

After storage I also try to remove a significant volume of old gas from the boat and run it through one of the car's before the boating season. That seems to work (Knocking on wood.) I have a regular automotive electric fuel pump rigged with hoses and long clips to run off a battery for transferring fuel. It works very well but I make a point of being Very careful with the battery conections (NO Sparking!). I like the small hand-operated fuel pump (the cheap one); hope you buy it an give us a report!

As for additives, I've been running some stuff called "StarTron" for quite a while, and it's seems to do the trick (but who really knows, until you run into a problem?)

Casey
 
I use Startron and Stabil (Blue) both and try to find non-ethanol gas when I can. Most of the marinas carry it here and I can always fuel at my pier with 5 gallon jerry jugs :shock: But if I'm down to 1/3 in each tank, 100 gallons is a lot to lug by hand!
 
Good Morning Pat and Patty,
Sorry to hear about your fuel/water problems. This doesn't help you now, but for future references another non-ethonal location is the Arlington Fuel Stop. It is the truck stop on the West side of I-5 at the Arlington Exit 208. They feature the non-ethanol in order to accomodate the farmers in the area. A fairly convenient place for those traveling North and South on I-5.

(I still maintain that all those clowns in DC that have forced ethanol on us should be sent out to sea on a vessel filled with ethanolated fuel, have their engines fail, their methods of communication fail due to lack of charging power and we never hear or see them again).

(Sorry, you got me started again about ethanol..... :twisted: )

Hope at least you are able to enjoy that gorgeous sun we have today.... :lol:
 
The setup Charlie on Captains Kat is what I'd suggest. The low pressure electric pump only costs about $30 online (ebay). The Racor filter can be purchased for about $65 or so. The fuel line can be connected to that system, and fuel slowly transferred at about 10 gallons per hour. I keep a similar pump on my boat in case of a engine fuel pump failure so that I can quickly plumb it into the boat to continue on. You could plumb the electric into your filter, and polish all the fuel into another container, or into the other tank on the boat. I like that method better than the hand crank method. It also gets all the fuel that the fuel pickup will get. Once you do that, you may need to pull the tank to get any remaining fuel out by the pour out method. Ron
 
Charlie has posted a photo of my polishing system. Basically it is a racor filter, auto fuel pump, switch, and battery--but as noted you want to keep any gas fumes away from any spark.

If I was doing it again, I would use the larger Walbro pump--same principle, but over twice the volume. You have to put the filter before the pump (the pumps have a mesh/screen filter, but it is difficult to clean. You can use a sintered bronze filter or small in line particulate filter before the pump if you wish.

I also try and use non ethanol fuel. I polish if there is a period when I have not used the boat. Soltron (Startron) is an enzyme, and may be of some value I have found it better for diesel, but do use if for the gas tanks also. If you are using ethanoled fuel, than use the blue Stabil.

There are sensors water available for the Racor filters, which have a water probe and a detection set. I believe that they are available for all of the Racor filters which have bows.

The question is did you get bad fuel? Did water get into the tank from the vent or fill? or is this just condensation?

If the fuel is old, than I will pump it out, into 5 gallon cans, and run it in my SUV, with 50% new fuel. I do run it thru the filter/water separator in that case also before using it in the auto engine.
 
Yeah, I really don't know the source of the water, I did put 60 gallons in at Hilton Harbor, but that is where CBP and the Coast Guard fuels, so I doubt they would put up with bad gas...and it really is down to a fairly small amount now (judged by draining the fuel water separator bowl). I will try to pump it all out, mix the removed fuel down and burn it in the Titan, and have all fresh non-ethanol gas in the C-Dory when heading out for Powell. For the last three years, I have managed the entire two weeks on about 50 gallons (going slow), so we shall see. I will get a pump of some kind and empty the tank as best I can.

Nobody however has responded to the question of whether I might just deal with what remains now with Heet. Anybody have any thoughts on that?
 
The heet stuff is winter time stuff to prevent gas line freeze ups I thought. Why not just pull both of your tanks after pumping them as far down as you can. Dump them completely out let them dry, pull the fuel pick ups cut them on a 45 degree angle reinstall tanks. Check your vents that they are not getting spray forced into them adding water to your tanks. Use Blue stabil on every fill up and keep your tanks full. Change all fuel filters at least once a year. Any other way besides removing the tanks you have no real idea how much goop you have at the bottom of your tanks. The whole process will help you better bond with your boat. :)
D.D.
 
Will-C":3s2kir63 said:
The heet stuff is winter time stuff to prevent gas line freeze ups I thought. Why not just pull both of your tanks after pumping them as far down as you can. Dump them completely out let them dry, pull the fuel pick ups cut them on a 45 degree angle reinstall tanks. Check your vents that they are not getting spray forced into them adding water to your tanks. Use Blue stabil on every fill up and keep your tanks full. Change all fuel filters at least once a year. Any other way besides removing the tanks you have no real idea how much goop you have at the bottom of your tanks. The whole process will help you better bond with your boat. :)
D.D.
Click to expand...
On the 25, there's a single tank that's below the (under fiberglass). So to do what you suggest would require cutting out a large chunk of floor and then glassing it back in. That would DEFINITELY be a bonding experience. :wink:
 
Not only what Roger says, there is also an inspection port in the middle of the cockpit floor that accesses - nothing at all. It was probably originally supposed to access the sending unit, but that is a good 8" forward of this port with about 1" clearance, leading to speculation that either they used a different tank than originally intended, or possibly simply installed the tank backwards. Who knows. But the only way I can see to get the gas out is to pump it through the fuel line...that will get everything at the level of the pickup tube but not below, so I have no idea what may end up being left behind after pumping.

Last night I ordered a cheap 12 volt fuel pump, so we shall see. Boat is at Birch Bay and I am in Fall City, so it will be a while.

 
Hey Pat, Russ and Toni Portner are back with us for a few days. Russ and I discussed your problem and we believe the best thing for you to do is to put an inspection port directly over where that sending unit is. You could cut the deck with a rotozip tool and install the port, get an 8 or 10" one or even larger. The flange would cover any rough edges and then you could get to the bottom of the tank easily and have access any time you want..

Charlie
 
I have a Beckson hand pump connected to a piece of 1/4" PEX tubing that is small enough to be inserted through a fuel pickup or tank fuel sender after it is removed and try to remove as much gas as possible. I can inspect tank for debris, water, etc at the same time.

Pump purchased from
http://www.awdirect.com/self-priming-si ... fer-tanks/ but many other places sell it. Harbor Freight has a knock off version of it on sale for $5

It works fine but have a working 12V fuel pump and planning to build a portable electric pump soon.

Did the water enter from the tank vent?

Have fun :wink: and be safe .
 
Who would build a boat with no fuel tank access? I mean I have had a few boats and fuel tank sending units go bad faster than politicians. Are 26' Ventures built this way? Glad my tanks are accessable with out having to do major fiberglass surgery. Are TomCat tanks glassed in also?
D.D.
 
On my boat I have a 8" round deck hatch (pie plate) over the fuel pickups and fuel sender unit. Easy access and the fuel sender unit has a dial fuel guage
 
D.D.-

I've been having a lot of unspoken thoughts the past several years with all the problems encountered on the CD-25, Tom Cats, and other similar larger boats where the size of the boat and the placement of the cockpit and cabin floors seem to dictate that fuel tanks, water heaters, water tanks, black water holding tanks, toilet fittings, shower sumps, and a plethora of other plumbing fixtures and delights have to be sealed below without easy access.

I really feel sorry for those who have to deal with these problems, and constantly feel thankful that in the CD-22 and smaller boats these features (what there are of them, at least,) are directly accessible under cabinets in the cabin, and the engine well at the transom.

It's also another good argument for saddle tanks for fuel, so as to free up more room at the transom for other components, as well as make the tanks themselves more accessible and better balance the weight in the boat.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
You bet, give me a 50 gallon saddle tank for each side under the gunwales, and I am so there...it would have to not cost two boat units of course. Anybody have a link to off-the-shelf saddle tanks? Our fuel tank is not actually glassed in, the cockpit floor is held in place by screws and comes up, but re-caulking it is a real PITA, we did this once already. I do like the idea of putting another inspection port over the sender, that would be a lot cheaper than saddle tanks!

The blackwater tank issue we have solved. Since we have the Airhead, it has never been used. I put in a third vertical hatch between the two below the motor well and cut the top out of the plastic tank, so it is now a nice dry storage area.

The fresh water tank is in a stupid location, but I intend to open up the glass in the vee-berth and hollow out the foam and put in a couple of hatches there, and install a second 20 gallon fresh water tank for a total of 40 gallons, and then get the remote level indicator that Triton has so I will always know how much water is left.



Sea Wolf":35pm426j said:
D.D.-

I've been having a lot of unspoken thoughts the past several years with all the problems encountered on the CD-25, Tom Cats, and other similar larger boats where the size of the boat and the placement of the cockpit and cabin floors seem to dictate that fuel tanks, water heaters, water tanks, black water holding tanks, toilet fittings, shower sumps, and a plethora of other plumbing fixtures and delights have to be sealed below without easy access.

I really feel sorry for those who have to deal with these problems, and constantly feel thankful that in the CD-22 and smaller boats these features (what there are of them, at least,) are directly accessible under cabinets in the cabin, and the engine well at the transom.

It's also another good argument for saddle tanks for fuel, so as to free up more room at the transom for other components, as well as make the tanks themselves more accessible and better balance the weight in the boat.

Joe. :teeth :thup
Click to expand...
 
Pat , I have thought about a larger water tank in the bow but Iam not sure doubling it would be a great idea. My 27 likes to bow steer some times. Last trip out we were low on fuel but susan filled the water tanks. Well that was fine but I did notice the hull angle was a little bow down. then when susan and the dog went forward to take a nap in the very front of the v-berth I had a hard time getting the bow up and stop the bow steering if I dropped the speed below 18mph.


What I would suggest is that with the boat normally loaded, in my case heavy, I would place a equal amount of weight to 40 gallons in the bow to see if it changes the handling much. do it with and with out full fuel tanks. This will show if its going to case a problem before you go tearing up your boat.
 
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