Wallas revisited

[srbaum]

The Nordic has a thermostat, built into the control panel. When in the heat mode (lid down), the sensor keeps the cabin temperature consistent, with the setting of the heat knob.

 

[colbysmith]

Sounds like the newer units are better then with the thermostat.

 

[srbaum]

Colby,
With our older 95D in the 22, I usually had to get up during the night to regulate the temperature. With the Nordic, the temperature stays about the same all night. Two weeks ago, I was on a cruise for a few days and never had to mess with the temp at night.
Hands down, the new stove, aside from a similar look and working principle, is a completely different machine... The only thing that I can say that I miss from the 95D, was that the cover lid had swirl marks, so that every thing on the cover, didn't make it look dirty...

 

[pcg]

The newer Wallas Nordic DT appears to be a game changer. I wasn't considering Wallas until now because of the number of accounts I've read of dissatisfied Wallas owners. For anyone pondering diesel vs. propane, here's some comparisons I've come up with. I know how some feel about propane, and that's been discussed over and over here, so no need to start that up again please.

Comparison of Wallas Nordic DT stove heater to Propex HS2800 heater (the largest version they offer) and a propane cooktop.

Diesel in 5 gal can
137,381 btu/gal
Weighs 7lb/gal (varies from 7 to 8 lbs per U.S. gallon)
Contents of five gal can weighs 35 lbs.
Contains 686,905 btu (137,381 btu/gal x 5 gal)
3,971 btu/lb (695,000At high output, stove develops 6650 btu
At high output, heater develops 6,650 btu
At high output, stove consumes 6.5 oz/hr
At high output, heater will run for 98.5 hrs (128 oz/gal)(5 gal)/(6.5 oz/hr)
5 gallons of diesel, used in this heater, contain 655,000 btu-hr
Elec draw: 9A for 5 min to start, o.75A full power

Total cost: $3,000 total
Disadvantages:
6650 might not be sufficient in really cold weather
Heat cannot be ducted
Long time for stove top to heat up and stove heat may not be sufficient
Advantages:
Simple installation
Diesel inherently safer than propane

Propane in 20# tank (4.6 gal full)
91,500 btu /gal
Weighs 4.24 lb/gal
Contents of 20# tank weighs 19.5 lbs (4.24 lb/gal x 4.6 gal)
Contains 420,900 btu (91,500 btu/gal x 4.6 gal)
12,585 btu/lb (420,900 btu/19.5 lb)
At high output, heater develops 9556 btu
At high output, heater consumes 12.8 oz/hr [(128 oz/gal)/(10 hrs/gal)]
At high output, heater will run for 46 hours (10 hrs/gal)(4.6 gal)
4.6 gal of propane, used in this heater, contain 439,576 btu-hr (9556 x 46)
Elec draw: instant on, 1.9A full power plus 0.5A? for propane valve

Cost of heater: $1000
Cost of stove top: $500 - $1000
Cost of propane locker: $600 components plus physical locker construction
Total cost: $2100 - $2600 (depending on stove top)
Disadvantages:
Requires propane detectors and construction of a propane locker and ductwork for heater.
Advantages:
Higher heater output (9556 btu)
Higher stove output (7000 and 11000 btu burners for Dickinson 2-burner stovetop)
Instant heat
Heat can be directed via ductwork to where it's most needed.

 

[srbaum]

Paul,
Thanks for posting these details. I would add two things to your list... Pro for Wallas is that it removed moisture/condensation from the cabin interior. Con for propane, as it adds moisture/condensation to the cabin...

 

[pcg]

Con for propane, as it adds moisture/condensation to the cabin...

That's not true in this instance. Yes, the combustion of both diesel and propane produces moisture (as well as CO) and that's why combustion gases from a heater should be vented to the outside. The Propex heaters, like the Atwood propane furnace in our camper, have an inlet and outlet for combustion, and an inlet and outlet for cabin air. The inlet and outlet for combustion is always vented to the outside, so the moisture created and the CO don't get in the cabin. The heater outlet for cabin air obviously gets vented into the cabin. The heater inlet for cabin air can be ducted from the outside to bring in fresh air(as the Wallas does), or from the inside to recirculate and quickly heat interior air. Even in the latter instance, no moisture is added to the air.

 

[Hunkydory]

Pcg, yes that’s that’s true with the heater, but is the propane stove cook top also vented like the Wallas? On all my past & present rv campers using propane, the heat was vented as you say, but the stoves unlike the Wallas were all open flame.

Jay

 

[westward]

In my conversations with ScanMarine, I was told the Nordic flush mount unit could be controlled thermostatically as was mentioned above. I believe (don't quote me here) he said the countertop unit had multiple fixed set levels, but not true thermostatic control.

 

[macmac]

The earlier Wallas 95D and 125D stoves and stove heaters used brushed fan motors. The hallmark of running brushed motors is that they slow down over time. These units would see significant rpm drop after 500 to 1,000 hours of run time, making for a corresponding drop in combustion air, making the system run too rich and eventually fouling with carbon deposits in the combustion chamber and injection needle.

Starting and stopping the 95D/125D units with the throttle on "high" helped reduce carbon fouling. A unit that had reached a high degree of fouling internally could sometimes be coaxed to limp along by using kerosene (good, fresh, 1K grade or better kerosene) for a while, but would eventually need servicing.

In 2006, Wallas introduced the 85D series (now called the Nordic Dt), which used all brushless fans, with estimated life expectancies over 30,000 hours. This amounted to a fundamental shift in service life expectations - much longer than before.

These newer units are commonly in the field for more than 5,000 hours without any servicing. Before the 85D series, these products had no internal clock, but the new ones all do. This means we have been able to greatly improve on what we can expect by seeing what happens in a given run time.

The 85D and all the newer units are started using a pre-programmed start sequence that starts when you turn it on. There is nothing for you to do with the control knob when starting (or stopping), as the programming makes them start and stop in an optimal way to keep them out of the service shop.

Any of the Wallas diesel fired products can run kerosene that is within 12 months of distillation date. Diesel is much less expensive, more powerful and far more stable than kerosene. Diesel can stay in the tank for five years or more if kept in darkness.

All Wallas products need to run their cool down cycle when stopping, which means they need to be shut down using the control panel, NOT by killing power to the stove or heater.

Call weekdays 9 - 5: 206-285-3675 with questions. We are happy to help.

Thanks for using Wallas and Happy Thanksgiving!

Doug at Scan Marine.

 

[pcg]

is the propane stove cook top also vented like the Wallas?
Jay

It will be, but not with integral ventilation like the Wallas. In my camper, which I designed and had custom built by Four Wheel Campers, I have a Fantastic roof vent fan directly over the propane stove. In my C-Dory I'm planning on removing the rear starboard side window and installing the same vent in its place, directly above the Dickinson stove top.

Paul

 

[thataway]

The Nordic DT gives this description:

Simple cooking or heating power control with rheostat. When heating, the panel can sense room temperature and adjust power output to keep your cabin warm and comfortable. For this reason, the panel should not be mounted directly in front of stove/heater.

 

[macmac]

This describes running in Thermo Mode (light in the bottom left of the control panel ON). Whenever you start a Nordic Dt, that light will be off, indicating it is in Manual Mode - a simple throttle control, best for cooking, but you can heat that way too. Twisting the knob quickly left-right-left will turn that light on or off. Once the light is on, the room temp is measured at the panel.

Thanks.


Doug at Scan.

 

[Hunkydory]

is the propane stove cook top also vented like the Wallas?
Jay

It will be, but not with integral ventilation like the Wallas. In my camper, which I designed and had custom built by Four Wheel Campers, I have a Fantastic roof vent fan directly over the propane stove. In my C-Dory I'm planning on removing the rear starboard side window and installing the same vent in its place, directly above the Dickinson stove top.

Paul

Paul, nice choice with the Four Wheel Camper. We had the Grandby model of Four Wheel Campers installed on a new 1984 Ford 3/4 ton pick up in 1984 & kept it for 27 years. Our present Eagle Cap truck camper has two Fantastic roof fans plus another exhaust fan over the propane stove burners. It will be interesting to see how the Fantastic Fan works out on your camper & boat. To much air movement & you lose your heat & to little & moisture inside the boat builds. We have a Nicro solar battery run fan directly over the Wallas area for removing condensation from heating water, cooking & coffee making, it works well for that, but can’t keep up with high condensation from certain weather induced high condensation or condensation from using the Buddy Heater or other direct flame propane use especially when they are combined, like we have had experience, when on our SE Alaska cruises & the old 95D Wallas quit.

Jay

 

[pcg]

is the propane stove cook top also vented like the Wallas?
Jay

It will be, but not with integral ventilation like the Wallas. In my camper, which I designed and had custom built by Four Wheel Campers, I have a Fantastic roof vent fan directly over the propane stove. In my C-Dory I'm planning on removing the rear starboard side window and installing the same vent in its place, directly above the Dickinson stove top.

Paul

We had the Grandby model of Four Wheel Campers installed on a new 1984 Ford 3/4 ton pick up in 1984 & kept it for 27 years. ... It will be interesting to see how the Fantastic Fan works out on your camper & boat. To much air movement & you lose your heat...
Jay

Yes, in cold weather we're careful to only open the roof vent and run the fan while cooking, although we leave the vent open (fan off) and a window cracked at night to prevent condensation build-up from our breathing. We like it cold for sleeping and sleep under a big down comforter. I thought we were old timers after 23 years in our FWC, but you got us beat. I built out a shell which was based on the Grandby, but has Al struts placed where I wanted to fit my layout for utilities and we had it made an inch shorter so we could keep the tailgate on.
We've spent over 500 nights in the camper and the layout suits us well for our style of exploring, so we're hoping we can do something similar with the C-Dory, which we're designing for extended boondocking.
Your posts detailing your trips up the Inside Passage keep us inspired!

 

[T.R. Bauer]

The tech at Polar Marine in Anchorage says the new ones are way better than the old ones in design and durability and almost never works on them. I don't have a wallas any longer, but mine was good for 2 decades before it took a dump and I'd still have it if were not for an out of production/obsolete blower lid circuit board. Which by the way, is a total bummer since just about every part inside it was rebuilt 2 or 3 years ago. That is the kind of stuff that made me not buy another one.