I am trying to decide on the model of Wallas cooktop to get. I have very limited space and while the double unit will fit the single burner would be much better space wise. My boat cabin is very comparable to a C-Dory 22 cruiser, I have a 23' Clippercraft. Is the Wallas 800 big enough to heat the cabin in freezing to somewhat lower temperatures?
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Wallas Heaters
- Thread starter fritzdfk
- Start date
starcrafttom
Active member
depends on who you ask? I think that the single cook top would work but if you need to cook two things at once or want to keep something warm while cooking you need two burners.
if your main purpose is to heat the cabin and not cook I would buy ( and i did for my boat) a wallas or espar cabin heater and not the cook top heater combo.
If you do a search on the site you will find LOTS of info and opinions on the subject.
if your main purpose is to heat the cabin and not cook I would buy ( and i did for my boat) a wallas or espar cabin heater and not the cook top heater combo.
If you do a search on the site you will find LOTS of info and opinions on the subject.
I have a 06 cape cruiser (venture)with the wallas 800 single burner . I live in Naples ,fl so the heater doesnt get a workout like it would in Alaska for florida it puts out plenty of heat . We went out in 40 degrees and it was very nice .CC23 is a little bit bigger then the cd22 so you might be fine
Alyssa Jean
New member
I just replaced my 2 burner Wallas with a Webasto furnace. The Wallas is not going to adequately heat your cabin in AK in my opinion. The unit is designed to do two things fairly well. I never used it for cooking as I use one or two butane burners which give instand cooking heat and are portable.
Pat Anderson
New member
I'm with David. If you want heat, buy a heater. If you want a stove, buy a stove. But you will certainly get a diversity of opinions here on this issue!
Matt Gurnsey
New member
I sea trialed a 23 Cape Cruiser (now C-Dory Venture 23) with the single burner unit two years ago. It was snwoing outside, and all of us inside were toasty warm. In fact, none of us wanted to put a coat back on to handle lines....
centerisland
New member
The Wallas will keep the upper half of the main cabin quite comfortable, but your feet will not recieve heat, nor will the forward berth area.
I too would suggest installing a small forced air furnace (I put an Espar D2 on an Arima that worked out beautifully - $500 or so used on EBay plus an expensive throughhull, the entire install was under $1K).
You didn't mention your cooking requirements, but cooking over gas (propane) is preferrable to almost any other method - just be cautious with the fuel storage.
I too would suggest installing a small forced air furnace (I put an Espar D2 on an Arima that worked out beautifully - $500 or so used on EBay plus an expensive throughhull, the entire install was under $1K).
You didn't mention your cooking requirements, but cooking over gas (propane) is preferrable to almost any other method - just be cautious with the fuel storage.
It' all very confusing, too many options. I think I will take the advice that if I want heat I should get a heater. A warm cabin is more important than warm food. The choices seem to be an Espar D2, or a Webasto 2000. Years ago I had a Wallas 1300 in a small sailboat and it was not enough to heat the boat and the space I have now is comparable. The Wallas 30D is too big I think. The Wallas 1800 might work but I live in a very remote place and kerosene is difficult to get. So it comes down to the Espar or Webasto. I have read on other posts of the annoying start/stop cycling of the Espar/Webasto heaters. In talking to Sure Marine about their Webasto, they sell them with what they call Surewire. Surewire apparently makes the heater easier to install but it also does away with the heater's ability to vary the output of the heater. With the Surewire system the heater is either on full force or off. Sure Marine thinks this is better for the heater as it is not prone to carboning up at low settings. The Surewire setup would certainly increase the on/off cycling. I haven't talked to Espar dealers, only looked at Espar's website and read info here. The Espar does have variable output and they are available on Ebay with marine kits for a reasonable price. I have talked to ScanMarine and they said that the Wallas heaters were better because both Espar and Webasto couldn't vary their outputs like Wallas does but this doesn't seem to be the case. As I said it is all very confusing.
Our two burner Wallas does a fine job heating our CD-25 and handling the cooking duties. We will supplement that with a small electric heater that we use when plugged into shore power; also a microwave and a single burner butane cooktop. When we ordered our C-Dory in 2006, people here raved about the Wallas. Since that time, some have had recurring problems and have moved on to other heat/cooking options. Knock on wood, but the only time ours didn't fire right up was due to a battery problem... and those batteries were less than 6 months old. We make it a point to open the cabinet under the Wallas when we turn it on, either a strong charge on the batteries or with the engine running, and we use Kleen Heat. Like Dr. Bob, we also start it and shut it down on full power. As far as getting heat to the v-berth when it's really cold, we use an EcoFan on the Wallas cooktop when necessary. It allows you to direct the flow of heat and doesn't use any power beyond the cooktop needs. When it's cold, the heat output control on the Wallas allows us to adjust as necessary.
It works for us.
Good luck with your decisions,
Jim B.
It works for us.
Good luck with your decisions,
Jim B.
With the Surewire system the heater is either on full force or off. Sure Marine thinks this is better for the heater as it is not prone to carboning up at low settings.
There's alot of truth in this statement. I never turn my Wallas below 1/2. I normally leave it on full and adjust the temp by opening windows/door.
Ditto on all the above -- but I am not aware of a benefit from opening the cabinet. What does this accomplish?JamesTXSD":1yz9fofy said:Knock on wood, but the only time ours didn't fire right up was due to a battery problem... and those batteries were less than 6 months old. We make it a point to open the cabinet under the Wallas when we turn it on, either a strong charge on the batteries or with the engine running, and we use Kleen Heat. Like Dr. Bob, we also start it and shut it down on full power.
I think I will finally get an EcoFan, for the Alaska trip.
I have never had a problem with running the Wallas on less-than-full.Adeline":1yz9fofy said:There's alot of truth in this statement. I never turn my Wallas below 1/2. I normally leave it on full and adjust the temp by opening windows/door.
Warren
centerisland
New member
The conventional wisdom on the Espars is to also run them full output to reduce buildup - the startup time on the Espar D2 is 60 seconds to get usable heat versus many minutes on the Wallas (figure at least 10 to get up to usable temp).
The Wallas 95 in my (new to me) CD22 has the fan in the hood, which consumes a fair amount of power and is relatively noisy. If you leave the hood in the raised position it is quieter and uses much less power, but then the heat radiates upward and the stove becomes a bit of a hazard. Not a big deal when I'm single-handed, but I would be hesitant to leave it up with other crew on board - there is so little counter space that it's easy to envision something touching that surface.
One of the features of an air furnace is that you can put it in an otherwise unusable location - I believe that one CBrat mounted theirs under the counter behind their Wallas. Counter space is at a huge premium in these small cruisers and it's a shame to waste it - ideally it can serve multiple purposes, but your options are reduced when it's your primary source of heat.
Another feature of an air furnace is the ability to duct the heat to where it's needed. You could have windhsield defrosters, venting into the V-berth, heck you could even heat an enclosed cockpit if you wanted (of course, you couldn't heat ALL of them at the same time!). Using a cooking stove, though, you can at best use a fan to direct some of the warm air elsewhere nearby.
One last thought - I used to live year around on a trawler in Juneau, and I was really only happy when I had several sources of heat: Espar D7 (24K BTU) diesel furnace, electric at the dock to supplement, and both a catalytic propane heater and a wood stove - plus I could do the old flowerpot over the propane cookstove if all else failed. Even on my current trawler in Seattle I have a Hurricane 35K BTU hydronic furnace, electric supplement at the dock, and a Dickenson Newport bulkhead heater (and a propane cookstove). I do NOT like being cold! :lol:
The Wallas 95 in my (new to me) CD22 has the fan in the hood, which consumes a fair amount of power and is relatively noisy. If you leave the hood in the raised position it is quieter and uses much less power, but then the heat radiates upward and the stove becomes a bit of a hazard. Not a big deal when I'm single-handed, but I would be hesitant to leave it up with other crew on board - there is so little counter space that it's easy to envision something touching that surface.
One of the features of an air furnace is that you can put it in an otherwise unusable location - I believe that one CBrat mounted theirs under the counter behind their Wallas. Counter space is at a huge premium in these small cruisers and it's a shame to waste it - ideally it can serve multiple purposes, but your options are reduced when it's your primary source of heat.
Another feature of an air furnace is the ability to duct the heat to where it's needed. You could have windhsield defrosters, venting into the V-berth, heck you could even heat an enclosed cockpit if you wanted (of course, you couldn't heat ALL of them at the same time!). Using a cooking stove, though, you can at best use a fan to direct some of the warm air elsewhere nearby.
One last thought - I used to live year around on a trawler in Juneau, and I was really only happy when I had several sources of heat: Espar D7 (24K BTU) diesel furnace, electric at the dock to supplement, and both a catalytic propane heater and a wood stove - plus I could do the old flowerpot over the propane cookstove if all else failed. Even on my current trawler in Seattle I have a Hurricane 35K BTU hydronic furnace, electric supplement at the dock, and a Dickenson Newport bulkhead heater (and a propane cookstove). I do NOT like being cold! :lol:
Ditto on all the above -- but I am not aware of a benefit from opening the cabinet. What does this accomplish?
When we got our boat, I asked about the "1/2" vent at the galley counter. I was told that it's a good idea to open the cabinet doors to allow more air in there at start up on the Wallas. Seems to me that the cabinet isn't particularly air tight, but since it was recommended, we still do it. It doesn't cost a thing and it takes approximately .52473 second to open a cabinet door - no downside. :wink:
T.R. Bauer
New member
It just depends....I find the 2 burner unit more the adequate even in SC Alaska from April to October. Before I installed my little v-berth fan, I used it in temperatures down to zero in Seward and it was tolerable in normal clothes in the cabin, coldish down low where your feet are, and downright chilly in the berth up front. The fan install really helped keep the berth warmer at the expense of slight draw off the battery. Truth be told when it is really really cold, it just doesn't cut it...especially at night with no natural radiation. If you are going with the single burner, I would assume your results would be even worse and you won't be happy in these conditions. I would install a furnace too if you really want a warm boat when it is really cold out.
JamesTXSD":1b7sdmqp said:When we got our boat, I asked about the "1/2" vent at the galley counter. I was told that it's a good idea to open the cabinet doors to allow more air in there at start up on the Wallas. Seems to me that the cabinet isn't particularly air tight, but since it was recommended, we still do it. It doesn't cost a thing and it takes approximately .52473 second to open a cabinet door - no downside. :wink:
I'll start doing that, too -- as you say, no downside. Thanks!
You mentioned that you use KleenHeat, as do I. I bought a bunch of it on sale a couple of years ago -- what are your thoughts on its shelf life?
Warren
I have wondered about making some sort of fan powered duct work that would draw hot air from the ceiling area down and release it into the forward part of the forward berth. That would relieve the very hot air around your head while warming your knees and feet a bit.
Maybe something drawing from the back of that roof shelf? That would be nice regardless of what type of heater/furnace one is using.
John
Maybe something drawing from the back of that roof shelf? That would be nice regardless of what type of heater/furnace one is using.
John
Warren,
My feeling is that the shelf life on the more refined products is longer than kerosene. I have some "liquid candle" which I purchased 4 years ago, and it still works well.
As for fans and heat transfer--we have used the ECO fan--and still go back and forth between the lid blower. The ECO fan does not use any power, which is a plus, if you are at anchor for several days, and need heat much of that time. (As we did one 36 hour rainly peroid in AK two summers ago). In the Tom Cat, the forward bunk is open enough, that I find that using a fan mounted near the ceiling (over the stove in the Tom Cat) and a fan near the bunk opening under the forward cabin house, gets warm air into the bunk area--not as effecient as a ducted heater, but warm enough.
My feeling is that the shelf life on the more refined products is longer than kerosene. I have some "liquid candle" which I purchased 4 years ago, and it still works well.
As for fans and heat transfer--we have used the ECO fan--and still go back and forth between the lid blower. The ECO fan does not use any power, which is a plus, if you are at anchor for several days, and need heat much of that time. (As we did one 36 hour rainly peroid in AK two summers ago). In the Tom Cat, the forward bunk is open enough, that I find that using a fan mounted near the ceiling (over the stove in the Tom Cat) and a fan near the bunk opening under the forward cabin house, gets warm air into the bunk area--not as effecient as a ducted heater, but warm enough.
Doryman":1e9q0jsm said:You mentioned that you use KleenHeat, as do I. I bought a bunch of it on sale a couple of years ago -- what are your thoughts on its shelf life?
Warren
Warren, I don't know what the shelf life is for Kleen Heat, but what I can tell you is that I purchased a few gallons in the spring of 2004 and I'm still successfully using it. (I've never used any other fuel source). Yesterday and today I had the Wallas operating while I was cruising. As I've said before on various threads, I only start up the Wallas when the engines are operating, and I always start and end with the thermostat in the maximum heat position. (Someday, I'm sure my good fortune will end, but for now I'm enjoying the heat).
We have not heard anything official from the makers of Klean Heat, but we do not have confidence in any fuel other than diesel when held for more than two years. You can rest assured the fuel maker won't be paying for the servicing of your unit if and when the fuel clogs it up.
Shake the kerosene or Klean Heat container well. Pour a cup or so of the fuel into a glass container and let it sit for an hour undisturbed. Hold the glass container up in the light and look for any "ghosts" or blobs in the fuel. If you see any, the fuel has been bad for a long time.
Check out our web site for more on fuel specs at
http://www.scanmarineusa.com/techtalk_fuelcomments.pdf
Thanks for using Wallas!
Doug at Scan
Shake the kerosene or Klean Heat container well. Pour a cup or so of the fuel into a glass container and let it sit for an hour undisturbed. Hold the glass container up in the light and look for any "ghosts" or blobs in the fuel. If you see any, the fuel has been bad for a long time.
Check out our web site for more on fuel specs at
http://www.scanmarineusa.com/techtalk_fuelcomments.pdf
Thanks for using Wallas!
Doug at Scan
Chuckpacific
New member
I toss my unused Kleen Heat in the fall and replace it with new for winter use when I can find it again at Home Depot.