Wallas Exhaust Problem
- Thread starter seahooked
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dogon dory
New member
Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author
dogon dory":qwpqe0fr said:
Sorry, Dan, this one of those highly tecnical, serious, and straight arrow threads.
No Room for Racy Humor Here!
Or any fun for the Human Race!*
*(Which to be PC, includes all colors, all creeds, all religions, all demonimations {including $1s, $5s, $10s, etc.}, all political parties (old Whigs from Dusty's era excepted), and addictions (including C-Doryitis impendiculosis 3-ft-itis).
John-
I know if seen those clamshell things somewhere.........
Yours Truly,
Straight Man Joe.
Hey Joel and others: Was with Brigner at the Seattle Boat show. In the last 3 shows I have made, I have yet to get to met Karl from Scan. My loss I am sure and I feel connected to the man due to the many hours of enjoyment and frustration from the wallas.
Fuel: Real clear "update" advice from the man. Based on "today's standards" (sorry..not a real fuel guy here)...he did indicate that the number one source of fuel was the fresh stuff from the pumps of folks that move diesel, staying away from the bio-diesel fuel and parifane (klean-heat) types of fuel. He indicated that:
Yes...the unit will burn most anything for an extended period of time on most any fuel....but TODAY, he felt that best way to go was the "new-improved-drug-free-sulfur-free-alcohol-free but for damn sure not tax free pay more for it than real gas diesel."
Now, I am almost of the opinion, that most of the toys we put on our 'LITTLE TRAILERABLE BOATS'... that most folks put on larger, haul'em once, splash em, leave em in the water larger boats..... really do not like all the true bouncing and banging we give them the opportunity to have when driving them down our fine roads of this Great Country of ours. Particuarly the interstate systems that cross and cut each other in the larger cities. Just follow your friend or any one else pulling any type of trailer, boat, 4 wheelers, lawn mowers....goats.... and watch how hard it gets tossed about.
Now.. what system was designed for that... None of them. So, we have to be ever vigilant on our hoses, nuts, fuel lines, and any other connections. I had the main power feed line that use to be the 1st thing that would pop off my wallas when trailered. Just got to be a habit of laying down, opening the cabinet, making sure it was pushed up tight each trip. Now....after knowing full well that I too have heard the 'WOOOOFFF" /bang sound.... I really should have checked some more items.... Sorry I missed the little light show on the outside of the boat. I know one of my fenders did not miss it when I had slung it from the grab rails on the roof to ensure I had a nice mid-ship fender out. But, the fender did turn black and did match the boat a bit better...
Fuel: Real clear "update" advice from the man. Based on "today's standards" (sorry..not a real fuel guy here)...he did indicate that the number one source of fuel was the fresh stuff from the pumps of folks that move diesel, staying away from the bio-diesel fuel and parifane (klean-heat) types of fuel. He indicated that:
Yes...the unit will burn most anything for an extended period of time on most any fuel....but TODAY, he felt that best way to go was the "new-improved-drug-free-sulfur-free-alcohol-free but for damn sure not tax free pay more for it than real gas diesel."
Now, I am almost of the opinion, that most of the toys we put on our 'LITTLE TRAILERABLE BOATS'... that most folks put on larger, haul'em once, splash em, leave em in the water larger boats..... really do not like all the true bouncing and banging we give them the opportunity to have when driving them down our fine roads of this Great Country of ours. Particuarly the interstate systems that cross and cut each other in the larger cities. Just follow your friend or any one else pulling any type of trailer, boat, 4 wheelers, lawn mowers....goats.... and watch how hard it gets tossed about.
Now.. what system was designed for that... None of them. So, we have to be ever vigilant on our hoses, nuts, fuel lines, and any other connections. I had the main power feed line that use to be the 1st thing that would pop off my wallas when trailered. Just got to be a habit of laying down, opening the cabinet, making sure it was pushed up tight each trip. Now....after knowing full well that I too have heard the 'WOOOOFFF" /bang sound.... I really should have checked some more items.... Sorry I missed the little light show on the outside of the boat. I know one of my fenders did not miss it when I had slung it from the grab rails on the roof to ensure I had a nice mid-ship fender out. But, the fender did turn black and did match the boat a bit better...
SEA3PO":2pwn82lj said:
ALL fuel that any of us will ever use will have carbon in it (with the possible exception of a hydrogen or nuclear powered C-Dory and I don't think we're ready for that). Vegetable oil has carbon in it and burning of biodiesel produces about the same amount of CO2 as burning any other fuel with similar energy content. However, for biodiesel, one can argue that the NET carbon emissions are reduced as the production of the plants removes CO2 from the air - the current estimates are that biodiesel produces about 60% less NET CO2 but these numbers are contoversial since they depend heavily on how one accounts for other energy costs that go into production.
Biodiesel does gel at a higher temperature than regular diesel. A couple of my friends had a problem with that here in Seattle when temps dropped below about 25 degrees F. While I'm sure that there are many different types/grades of biodiesel, I was surprised that some of the stuff sold here in Seattle was geling at such high temps. I could see BIG problems for people who are going skiing etc. and whose fuel gels on the way up the mountains or while they are parked for the day.
As regards the Wallace, I've said this before and I'll say it again, I'm somewhat convinced that Kleen Heat is the source of many of the problems people have with their Wallace. I base this on the annecdotal evidence that nearly everyone here who posts about problems is using Kleen Heat and my single data point - I've had my Wallace for almost 5 years now and have never run anything but diesel with NO problems. I really think we would benefit from a poll that asks about how many problems you have had with your Wallace and what fuel you use. Ideally, we would ascertain, how long you've had your Wallace, how many problems you've had and what fuel you were using at the time. I'm willing to bet that we will find a correlation between problems and the use of non-diesel fuels. Diesel is a much more lubricating fuel and I think it's better for the pump. I'd rather deal with a little odor from the external exhaust than have problems with the unit. Plus diesel is cheaper and readily available everywhere I boat.
I use Kleen Heat, which is supposed to have the least smell...
However, I have learned NEVER to open the starboard window when the Wallas is running, because the cabin will suddenly fill with the most awful, terrible, sickening sweet oily odor. Of course, this always happens unexpectedly, as others have pointed out.
If diesel smells even more than Kleen Heet- well...I don't know if I want to switch!
However, I have learned NEVER to open the starboard window when the Wallas is running, because the cabin will suddenly fill with the most awful, terrible, sickening sweet oily odor. Of course, this always happens unexpectedly, as others have pointed out.
If diesel smells even more than Kleen Heet- well...I don't know if I want to switch!
dogon dory
New member
Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author
Reviewing the current literature on the Wallas web site and maintance instructions etc--there are basically two types of the stoves: What most of have, the Wallas 85DU. These are specified as using diesel or light fuel oil. (which would include Kerosene, Kleen heat, lamp oil etc). There is a second class of stoves such as the Wallas 800, specificall designed to be used with Paraffin oil (also desribed as Petrol, which I had always thought of as gasoline)--But in America we call "paraffin oil" Kerosene.
Kerosene is more highly refined than diesel (especially #2 diesel)--#1 diesel, which used to be available at marine outlets for two cycle diesels, but is rarely seen anymore at marine outlets.
The #2 diesel will decay and form aspheltines. The clear fuels are much less likely to decay. Also many times in fuel tanks bacteria/and algae will grow at the fuel water interphase. For these reasons I have chosen to use one of the lighter oils in the Wallas stove (85 DU, Diesel or light oil).
I suspect that the major issue in the success of the Wallas stove, evolves around the having clean fuel (of either type), of having plenty of 12 volt power, and maintance. The stove is relitatively simple, in comparison to a diesel engine. The pump is basically a low pressure plunger pump, and not subject to the tolerances of an injection pump. Having all parts of the stove, including the forced draft (again the plenty of power) working properly are essential for proper operation. Also keeping the stove at high setting to prevent carbon deposition on shutdown will help longivity.
Even buying diesel at a high capacity truck stop does not guarantee you will not get contaminated fuel--I would tend to buy boat diesel shortly after a new load of diesel was unloaded--much less likely to get contaminated fuel. If I were to use #2 diesel, I would run it thru a 2 micron filter before using it in the Wallas.
Kerosene is more highly refined than diesel (especially #2 diesel)--#1 diesel, which used to be available at marine outlets for two cycle diesels, but is rarely seen anymore at marine outlets.
The #2 diesel will decay and form aspheltines. The clear fuels are much less likely to decay. Also many times in fuel tanks bacteria/and algae will grow at the fuel water interphase. For these reasons I have chosen to use one of the lighter oils in the Wallas stove (85 DU, Diesel or light oil).
I suspect that the major issue in the success of the Wallas stove, evolves around the having clean fuel (of either type), of having plenty of 12 volt power, and maintance. The stove is relitatively simple, in comparison to a diesel engine. The pump is basically a low pressure plunger pump, and not subject to the tolerances of an injection pump. Having all parts of the stove, including the forced draft (again the plenty of power) working properly are essential for proper operation. Also keeping the stove at high setting to prevent carbon deposition on shutdown will help longivity.
Even buying diesel at a high capacity truck stop does not guarantee you will not get contaminated fuel--I would tend to buy boat diesel shortly after a new load of diesel was unloaded--much less likely to get contaminated fuel. If I were to use #2 diesel, I would run it thru a 2 micron filter before using it in the Wallas.
dogon dory
New member
Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author
No Dan - without you here, we were missing considerable engineering (and BS'ing) talent to solve various problems. While some of us could pitch in on the BS'ing side (thank god for BC there), the engineering we had to struggle through.
Bob - while I agree with the theory, I still have a gut feeling that Kleen Heat is correlated with Wallace problems, but I guess I'll never get the hoped for poll....
Bob - while I agree with the theory, I still have a gut feeling that Kleen Heat is correlated with Wallace problems, but I guess I'll never get the hoped for poll....
dogon dory
New member
Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author
A very interesting thread. Per Karl's advice I'd been running 100% mineral spirits. Then I decided to try odorless(more refined)100% mineral spirits. Much better. Then, I tried Klean-Heat. It is a little slower on start-up and I think it burns a little cooler. When I get my laser-thermometer I'll post the results here. Very clean burning. Low odor. Then, I accidently topped off a gallon of 100% mineral spirits with a gallon of Klean-Heat and guess what ? It worked great! So they're compatible if you need to mix them. BTW, my Wallas is a '92 so I'm not sure if its duel requirements match those of the newer stoves.
and it is this fuel that is the source of the smoke under the counter, smoke smell in the cabin encountered many times on re-light. The shroud surrounding the burner is siliconed along the edges and if not perfect, you'll get the smoke if it is overloaded with fuel. I have watched it with a flashlight come curling out. Unless you get the afterfire, it won't overload, and thus you'll never notice it (because it worked properly). Once you start having the afterfire, all kinds of worms can come out of the Wallas if not the simple problem (lifting the hose out of the fuel) above.
Just for info. As some of you know I work part time selling tools at Home Depot and noticed the other day that we are now carrying Kleen Heat. HD might be an alternative source for those of you looking for it and having a hard time finding it.
On a related note, Three sources, two dealers at the SBS, plus Les at EQ, tell me I can/should burn kerosene in my Webasto. Its supposed to extend the life of the unit and eliminate any diesel smell (not that I had any to begin with.)
On a related note, Three sources, two dealers at the SBS, plus Les at EQ, tell me I can/should burn kerosene in my Webasto. Its supposed to extend the life of the unit and eliminate any diesel smell (not that I had any to begin with.)
drjohn71a":6svrfkhz said:
I think the clamshell idea is worth a try, so when I was down at Marine General in Duluth earlier this week I picked up a 2" x 2" clamshell vent for about $8. It had three mounting holes; the one at the apex I ground off because it didn't match anything. The two at the open end were spaced 1 5/8" apart and the bolt spacing on my Wallas exhaust flange is 1 1/4". So I just squeezed the clamshell in a vice until the holes matched. When I give this a try this spring, I'll aim the clamshell toward the stern. The Wallas exhaust is 1" in diameter and the ID of my altered clamshell is about 3/4" x 3/4", so I'm hoping I'm not introducing a restriction. I'm also hoping I don't scorch the side of the boat by directing hot exhaust gasses along side it. Anyway, I think it's worth a try as an attempt to solve the backdraught issue. I'll keep you posted.
Al
Moose,
If you can get it to backfire consistantly you will probably go faster as you will have a rudimentary jet engine providing extra thrust !!!
Of course you migt turn in circles since it is assymetric thrust then you will need an auto-pilot to correct it, and extra tanks for the diesel....
Merv :lol:
If you can get it to backfire consistantly you will probably go faster as you will have a rudimentary jet engine providing extra thrust !!!
Of course you migt turn in circles since it is assymetric thrust then you will need an auto-pilot to correct it, and extra tanks for the diesel....
Merv :lol:
Pamlicopirate
New member
I know this is an older post but recently bought a tomcat and having the same issues. Did your clam shell solve your exhaust problem or have you tried anything else.