Video of loss of Volvo Ocean racer on a reef

thataway

Active member
2014-12-04_10-15-48.png


There are several articles and on board video from "Team Vestas" the Volvo Ocean racer which hit a reef and broke up a couple of days ago. Worth a couple minutes to watch, especially if you have been an ocean racer:

First the rescue effort from race co-ordination headquarters and one of the other racers who has temporarily dropped out of the race to standby:

http://www.oldsaltblog.com/2014/11/team ... cean-race/

Then on board videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBqsKqWIJ0I

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-spor ... Wind-crash

The last two videos have some similar footage, but different perspective. A number of interesting issues: How did they manage to hit the reef, since it is shown on the charts (If you go down to enough detail). How fragile these large boats are. What high tech gear with satellite up and down link with real time video (as long as the satellite unit is powered up and not damaged). That there is real concern from the crew to prevent any environmental damage, salvage gear, and get back to ocean racing in the future. I believe that these around the world sailing races are one of the greatest tests of human feats and endurance on the seas.
 
Don't know how they managed to hit that big ol' reef. I've not done ocean sailing, but that reef was not a secret from what I can gather from the other racers. Millions of dollars still left sitting out there crunching away piece by piece for many months I'm guessing. I will be interesting to see if they follow up on why they hit the thing. They've got more computers on those boats than NASA commanding a lunar landing.

Sad that their dream ends so ignominiously.
 
Bob, a sad day for these men very disheartening. The skipper was an experienced racer and a gentleman - accepting responsibility for his boat. As you know charting in remote areas is not 100% accurate like the charts inland boaters like me are accustomed to. The charting in some areas(if available) can be many years old and things do change, including datum levels. There was also a tropical storm in the area. Glad everybody was OK.

I got interested in ocean racing a few years ago when a Canadian racer - Derek Hatfield visited our power squadron. At that time he was winter training in Lake Ontario. He has completed the "Around the World Alone" race and survived to tell his stories. One included being pitch poled while rounding the Horn. He was in 80' swells with another 20' of white on top!! Very grueling - sleeping a max. of 20 minutes at a time. If the swells are to steep/close you have to remain on the helm as the auto pilot cannot always respond quick enough.

One thing he pointed out is that unlike other mainstream sports that get more "airtime", it is very difficult for sailors to attract sponsors until they have a wealth of experience and wins under their belt. Derek raised funds for his current boat (Volvo 60) by painting the names of thousands of his sponsors on the hull. This is testament to the dedication and sacrifice that many racers put into the sport often with very little in return.

Derek and The Spirit of Canada are currently competing in the Transatlantic race as The Spirit of Adventure. I believe it is day 5.

Regards, Rob
 
potter water":b4ibg1db said:
Don't know how they managed to hit that big ol' reef. I've not done ocean sailing, but that reef was not a secret from what I can gather from the other racers. Millions of dollars still left sitting out there crunching away piece by piece for many months I'm guessing. I will be interesting to see if they follow up on why they hit the thing. They've got more computers on those boats than NASA commanding a lunar landing.

Sad that their dream ends so ignominiously.

Harry-

I've read the whole saga day by day since it happened. They hit the reef at night while they were relying on electronic instruments (presumably).

The reef is a miniscule thing when compared to the entire Indian Ocean.

"Experts" guess that their plotted course took them over the reef, but none of instruments prevented it or alarmed them.

Either the programs they were using were not set up to prevent this, or alarm them when it was approaching, or didn't have the reef in their memory, or...................(other possibilities).

What is significant to me for C-Dory skippers is that too much reliance on electronic guidance can be really dangerous.

How many of us have been on the water when the GPS showed us on land or vis-a-vis'?

How accurate and detailed are those charts we use anyway?

How many boats are set up with so much electronic wizardry that seeing out the windows is made difficult?

Does the boat look more like a video arcade game or a flight simulator than a pilot's wheelhouse?

How much do skippers rely on them versus real observations?

How many skippers rely so much on the electronics that they are dependent on them and would be hard put to use real observations, their own memory, a compass, and paper charts to get around safely?

I'm not looking for an argument here and won't be wanting to defend this position, but simply playing Devil's Advocate to bring up the question to the group.

Is this a valid question and point for discussion?

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Good post Joe.

As one who has done ocean racing (although mostly before GPS), you are concentrating on making the boat go fast--getting the last 1/100 th. knot out of the boat. The "navigator" is responsible for the course--and any obstructions--he often also does the meteorology. The skipper can over-rule any of his decisions (but should have a very good reason to do so). These folks are very experienced. No fingers have been pointed, and as Joe says, the Skipper is being stand up, as he should be about what happened. But he also admitted a mistake had been made.

The other boats knew the reef was there, and missed it. Remember the US Navy has hit several reefs in the last few years--so all the technology in the world, as not prevented accidents. Also don't forget about the loss of life in an Ensenada race a few years ago, where the North Coronado Island was hit. In Vesta's case, there was no loss of life!

I had a fantasy about doing the Around the World Race. It was back in the 70's and I had sold my half of a 45 foot ocean racer--and was watch captain on a 55 foot ULBD owned by a close friend. A John Spencer Schooner design which had been built for the Sydney to Hobart race called New World, suddenly appeared at the end of the gangway, renamed "Dark Star". The rumor was that she had been running dope, and that the price was $80,000 cash, no questions asked. I did get aboard and gave a quick inspection. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately for me) my father in law died that night, and we had to immediately leave for Mississippi. When we got back she had been sold and was in the shipyard for survey. She looked good. Last I heard she was in the San Francisco area. I never saw her win any races up there, but she could have been a good boat for the around the world race at that time.


51696d1293492096-john-spencers-designs-newworld.jpg


She was cold molded wood. Interior was pretty well stripped out. The sails were decent, but I had several sailmaker friends, so that would not have been a huge issue. Sponsorship was. I had lined up enough very experienced crew members for various legs of the race, but the big money was going to be for all of the outfitting, including rerigging, building out an interior suitable for the around the world race, as well as the many costs associated with the race. I always wondered if I could have pulled it off? Instead we bought a boat about the same size, very slow in comparison and did a 41,000 mile cruise to Europe and back. Certainly more sensible!

Spencer designed the very successful " Infidel/Ragtime", which one might say was an over grown star boat. She was also designed for limited Southern Ocean racing--and was a winner for many years in S. Calif, including all of the West Coast Ocean races. Several of my friends were members of the syndicate who owned her, and I sailed aboard several times. Ragtime sailed in the 2008 Tahiti race, and returned to New Zealand. She raced in the 2014 Sydney to Hobart race--a race she was denied entry when built in 1965, because she was too "light"--and too fast! She has been modified and rebuilt thru the years--but it is amazing that a very light,64 foot (about) built almost 50 years ago can still be competitive.
 
Joe, you have raised a lot of good points. Electronics have made navigation safer but they can lead to complacency and less stringent "watch keeping". One thing I do in unfamiliar waters is cross check the depth on my depthmeter with the depth on the chartplotter where it says I am. They should match!

In Canada's far north "old school" Eskimo's are often hired for patrol's. Apparently they can cover hundreds of miles with greater accuracy using the stars than others using GPS.

I read about a couple who live aboard a relatively small sailboat. They have no motor and use no electronic navigation equipment. They sail everywhere using the stars to navigate. They use a tallow filled lead line to check depth and bottom.

Sad to see some skills disappearing that took man so long to learn and perfect.

Regards, Rob
 
Not sure how much of the "news" one can believe at times, but there was a blurb tonight, that this boat was removed from the reef, and now they are looking at a fast repair to get back into the race.

As to the navigation. I admit, I do rely on the electronics considerably. But I like redundancy, so I have both boat powered and backup battery powered GPS up and running, and I really like it when they agree, Which is about 100% of the time, and I also do the depth confirmation. I also keep a paper chart handy as well.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

January_2010_342.highlight.jpg
 
Joe, you have raised a lot of good points. Electronics have made navigation safer but they can lead to complacency and less stringent "watch keeping". One thing I do in unfamiliar waters is cross check the depth on my depthmeter with the depth on the chartplotter where it says I am. They should match!

Rob, No one knows exactly what happened here. Yes the course should have been well outside (to the East--see the photo below) where the water is over 12,000 feet. Most of the area they are racing in is in the many thousands of feet--and way below what their depth finder would register. Since this part of the ocean is pretty much out of the main shipping lanes, it is not well charted, as to depth, and the landmasses/reefs may be not in an accurate position. There is no good forward scanning sonar, which would not slow the boat down. Who would watch the depth finder all of the time? Even an alarm may not be heard. There are 8 men (10 in the all woman crew) on the crew. There is also a non sailing reporter aboard each boat. This means 4 on a watch--they are on the boat weeks at a time, sleep is difficult--more like exhaustion rest…You are in a drum or kettle (it can be very noisy), it is hot, there may not be much ventilation etc. 4 is a minimum crew to just run the boat (since these are hand steered, not auto pilot like the single handed boats). We had 10 man crews on 45 to 55 foot boats, and that was a handful. Even there the navigator was also a helmsman, as well as having to work other positions, such as bowman.

The boats are capable of speeds of 30 knots--it is unclear how fast the boat was going when she hit the reef. I have read from 9 to 20 knots. One of the boats averaged over 20 knots in a 24 hour run!


Note the deep blue of a sudden drop off to the East of the reef.

Cargados_Carajos_Shoals_ISS.jpg


In Canada's far north "old school" Eskimo's are often hired for patrol's. Apparently they can cover hundreds of miles with greater accuracy using the stars than others using GPS.

Although the Eskimos are most likely very good navigators, and skilled seaman, GPS has a accuracy of a few feet today. I can assure you that even the best celestial navigator, using the best of instruments is gong to have an error far greater than any off the shelf GPS today. I suspect the success of native navigators is their knowledge of the sea.

I read about a couple who live aboard a relatively small sailboat. They have no motor and use no electronic navigation equipment. They sail everywhere using the stars to navigate. They use a tallow filled lead line to check depth and bottom.

Most likely you are referring to Lyn and Larry Pardey and Tallisen. Tallisen is for sale currently. They did not have an engine in any of their boats, and do not use electronics, except a SSB receiver (time signals). We were at the launching of Tallisen in Long Beach. Lyn and Larry have chosen to voyage in conditions we might not choose, but what many sailors were forced to use for centuries.

Sad to see some skills disappearing that took man so long to learn and perfect.

I don't think that these skills are lost. They have been improved during my lifetime (I used celestial navigation for my first long voyages. Good time reception and manual calculations made it slow. In the 70's mini computers (Calculators with a navigation library) were developed to do the calculations, and very accurate electronic watches replaced a regulated chronometer and checking the time ticks on WWV/WWVH.) You can still buy sextants, nautical almanacs and tables. there are plenty of folks who still practice celestial navigation…Maybe more threatened is cursive writing! :smile

Not sure how much of the "news" one can believe at times, but there was a blurb tonight, that this boat was removed from the reef, and now they are looking at a fast repair to get back into the race.

Harvey, I have checked the various blogs, and I suspect that someone is misquoting. The boat is very badly damaged. Not only is the bottom and stern for the last 10 feet destroyed, but all wiring has been ripped out, the steering is gone. The canting keels, all electronics/electrical and many other parts of the boat are trashed.

Then there is the question of how to get the boat off the reef. Dragging it would destroy the rest of the hull. Trying to raise the boat up with air bags and or jacks, and build a sled under it to move it would just not be practical, because of the seas and tides. The boat is toward the deep water, but it is a lee shore (waves crashing on it) You cannot even get a crane barge near enough, if one of proper size happened to be available within a few thousand miles. Then there is the time factor in towing the boat to a place where the technology is available to rebuild the boat.

I don't believe that they even tried to salvage the rig--which alone is well many hundred thousand dollars. There is a huge chance of damaging the mast and rigging by trying to take it down where the boat is, and not worth the risk.

The boats are all identical, including everything on them. The cost is somewhere in the 6 million dollar range for each 65 footers, and the total expense of a team will be in the neighborhood of 20 million dollars, for the race--plus some other program costs.

Another question, is are there enough spares, and could a new hull be built in time for them to miss two legs and then continue in the race next year? That has been discussed.
 
Some of the video links imply, and I rather think it likely with all that much $$$ involved, that the position & speed etc of the boat was continuously being monitored by the "home" crew. Likewise for all the other boats which missed the reef. They do seem to have had up/down links.

If this be the case then it seems somewhat strange that the on board crew were not alerted to the danger by home base.

Sad, but very happy no personal injuries or worse.

Apart from moments like this it must be a blast to sail one of those things.

M
 
Grumpy, I doubt that the base actually monitors the tracks minute by minute-. Even if they did, some one on the boat would have to be on the sat phone to receive a warning. Any message of navigational information would be considered outside help, and thus disqualify the boat on that leg of the race. (Of course, safety is more important).

There is the very real chance that the position of the reef is off--and it could be by a significant amount…but with up to date software, that is less frequent than in the past.

Reading both Panbo and Sailing Anarchy thread, it is obvious that some of the comments are from people who don't understand the circumstances aboard a large racing boat. 4 crew members on watch, 3 may be doing sail handling, and one steering. Even the guy steering might be doing some other tasks. There is the suggestion of a chart plotter in the cockpit. 99% of the time, the boat is far removed from any hazards or land mass. But the fact remains that there was a screw up in navigation.

Both threads are good to read. There may be more "automation" of alert to errors in the future, but humans do this sort of thing. Ie one of the BC Ferries hitting rocks at night--etc. As some auto's now are close to being fully self driving (and some are fully, with no human interphase. But then is it really ocean racing, or going along for the ride? In that case, get in a cold shower, deprive yourself of sleep, and have a video of waves crashing on a boat's deck, as the shower rocks and shudders for 10 to 20 days at a stretch.
 
Here is a nice link to a blog, about the various charts of this area, chart history of this reef/island, and especially about differences in types of zooming, (plus/minus) vs pinch and expand as in an I pad. The basis for the charts are from a survey over 100 years old: 1894(which is not uncommon for remote areas, and show the tracks of sailing ships as they did the manual sounding.

One factor is the difference between RNC and ENC. What may be compounded in translation from the database.

There was also a lighthouse which has been defunct for the last 2 years, and that this may have played a role. An interesting observation:
No matter how bad the echarts and echart display might be, we cannot and should not blame them for anything. It is frankly our job as navigator to know such limits and work around them. When all is going well, echarts are an invaluable aid to navigation and racing tactics, but when the navigation is crucial, we need to back these up with other info.

On Vestas the navigator was very experienced and said to be an excellent navigator. However, just reading a chart, does not make one a navigator.

http://davidburchnavigation.blogspot.co ... thing.html
 
Bob,

I was afraid that there might be some obstacle in the rules about navigational "aid" but, as you noted it's damned if you do and damned if you don't when you end up aground and out of the race anyway not to mention potential loss of life.

The technology to provide more assistance in avoiding incidents such as this is certainly there even if it were only to provide warning that the present course was going into a danger zone they may not be visible due to zooming. But then again, hitting one of the many floating containers or other uncharted flotsam out there at 19 Kts would be equally dangerous and not much can be done about it.

I guess if we took out all the danger it would not be exciting or challenging anymore :-)

M
 
In the past, this had been a "restricted area" in the notice of race, and sailing directions, apparently because of the dangers of this reef. That restricted area was lifted for this specific race. I suspect it will be back in the sailing directions. NOR in the future! Everyone looses.

Yes, there could be a number of alarms, both from the boat, the chart plotter, a person monitoring the race tracks, a very expensive forward scanning sonar etc….but again-several US Navy boats have hit reefs or obstructions that I know of--and I'll bet there are more than that!
 
The incident report has now been published--amazingly fast, considering the nature of the incident, and who was involved. The boat has been retrieved, and is being rebuilt in Italy, in anticipation of doing the last two legs of the race. Amazing what money can do!

The report is found at: http://cdn.sailingscuttlebutt.com/wp-co ... h-2015.pdf

If you want to spend much of an evening checking it out.
 
Back
Top