Venture 23 vs Cruiser 22

We do see what we want. You looked for best mpg above planing speed. I was looking at best mpg at a useful speed. Useful to who? Well to me. One of the reasons we so much enjoy our 27 is it has a higher useful speed and for us that is important. We are not retired and need to go and get back in shorter time periods. Also Susan always want to stay late on Sunday and we end up hauling butt back to the ramp just before last light. We spent to many days and hours going just 17 mph in the 22 because of chop or swell. Even running out to fish took to long. Fishing out of Troys boat is nice because we can run out from his dock space at 25 mph and get fishing a lot faster. We dont suffer the ride at higher speeds like in the 22.
 
Which brings up the issue, of "how much different" is the ride in the 22 and the 23? I honestly don't know--I have ridden along side one of the Marinaut's in chop, and thought the ride was equal. (but I have a foil and trim tabs). Yes, there is the argument that the trim tabs and Permatrim should not be necessary--but they do make a huge difference in the ride. I have ridden in several 23's--in the conditions I was in, I didn't see much difference--the amount of deadrise is very little, the entry is a bit finer--so there should be some difference. Like a deep V or cat? Nol.

If one really wanted a fast fishing boat, then one would go to a deep V or a cat, and suffer with the issues which they have...Again, a whole other kettle of....fish.
In our case we much prefer the open CC and a cat for fishing, where we can run at 30 knots or more.
 
starcrafttom":24y5axsf said:
Bob- I dont remember when it was. One of the old member, Young guy from kenmore, was looking to buy the cc23 or a 22. He had a defincae but it was messed up and he forced them to take it back. He asked me to test ride the boat and we meet the factor people at a ramp in the south sound. Great boat. I did write a review of my thoughts at the time.

About the hull. The hull is more then just a foot longer or a little more bow. The main difference to me in the hulls is the amount of sq ft touching the water. The 22 ,as you come from the bow to the stern, gets wider at the mid section and then narrow again. This causes a few things to happen. The stern drops into its own wake. That is why we all have to have trim taps to lift it up in the ass. Remember that this was a boat desined for a 70 2 stroke motor and that has really not changed. Its also why the boat is effected by the transfer of weight in the cabin ( at the widest point ). You have more leverage at the wide point then you do at the stern and this makes the boat a little tippy as people move around. Its the same problem I have on my 27 to a point. The CC23 widens out from the bow to the mid point in the hull and then keeps that width for the rest of the hull. This creates a lot of lift that makes for a more stable boat as you move around. It also creates more lift that allows for better mpg numbers. That lift also keeps the bow down more as you accelerate. You need far less trim tap on a cc23. I have spent the last two years fishing out of Troys cc23 a lot. Its a faster, better handling, smoother ride that gets better economy then a cd22. And the amount of room for fishing and sitting is noticeable. That said I still do not like the glass interior but I can live with it.

What I really like about the boat is the head room and being able to see out the windows while standing up or driving. I can not see out the side windows of a 22 more then 50 yards and some times not even that far. I can not stoop to look out, it kills my neck.

If I was in the market for a 22 or a 23 the 23 wins all day long. other then being more cute, which the 22 is, I see no advantage to it at all. the 23 does every thing the 22 does and more and does it better. I still loved the time I spent on my 22 and the 1800 hours I put on it in 5 years, but the cc23 is a better boat .
Click to expand...


This thread was bound to get legs. 😉

We also have a 2008 23 Venture. It was built by Fluid Marine as, I suspect, so was yours. These people build some nice boats and I think they may have built the best of the 23s. I don't think they made any money doing it so they got out of the business. When we bought ours I was first tempted by the 22. My wife pointed out that I was not a DIY person and that the 23 was a lot more finished and equipped. You have described it well. I don't trailer so the weight difference doesn't matter. Fuel is the cheapest item on my boat budget so that doesn't matter either. I get about 3.3 mpg and that's much better than my 23 Whaler. As a marine engineer I liked the full transom and the fibreglass interior unit that provided really great hull rigidity. I liked the sealed cockpit and I have had now problems with water leakage. I REALLY like the difference in ride when I tested both boats and I like the ide of the twin 60s on the stern. As a year round boater I appreciated the insulation. Thanks to the GFC effects in 2008 the price difference was not so great.

If I was spending the new price money today I would buy a 23 Ranger Tug. In the interim, I love my 23 Venture.
 
starcrafttom":2oxalkny said:
Bob- I dont remember when it was. One of the old member, Young guy from kenmore, was looking to buy the cc23 or a 22. He had a defincae but it was messed up and he forced them to take it back. He asked me to test ride the boat and we meet the factor people at a ramp in the south sound. Great boat. I did write a review of my thoughts at the time.

About the hull. The hull is more then just a foot longer or a little more bow. The main difference to me in the hulls is the amount of sq ft touching the water. The 22 ,as you come from the bow to the stern, gets wider at the mid section and then narrow again. This causes a few things to happen. The stern drops into its own wake. That is why we all have to have trim taps to lift it up in the ass. Remember that this was a boat desined for a 70 2 stroke motor and that has really not changed. Its also why the boat is effected by the transfer of weight in the cabin ( at the widest point ). You have more leverage at the wide point then you do at the stern and this makes the boat a little tippy as people move around. Its the same problem I have on my 27 to a point. The CC23 widens out from the bow to the mid point in the hull and then keeps that width for the rest of the hull. This creates a lot of lift that makes for a more stable boat as you move around. It also creates more lift that allows for better mpg numbers. That lift also keeps the bow down more as you accelerate. You need far less trim tap on a cc23. I have spent the last two years fishing out of Troys cc23 a lot. Its a faster, better handling, smoother ride that gets better economy then a cd22. And the amount of room for fishing and sitting is noticeable. That said I still do not like the glass interior but I can live with it.

What I really like about the boat is the head room and being able to see out the windows while standing up or driving. I can not see out the side windows of a 22 more then 50 yards and some times not even that far. I can not stoop to look out, it kills my neck.

If I was in the market for a 22 or a 23 the 23 wins all day long. other then being more cute, which the 22 is, I see no advantage to it at all. the 23 does every thing the 22 does and more and does it better. I still loved the time I spent on my 22 and the 1800 hours I put on it in 5 years, but the cc23 is a better boat .
Click to expand...


This thread was bound to get legs. 😉

We also have a 2008 23 Venture. It was built by Fluid Marine as, I suspect, so was yours. These people build some nice boats and I think they may have built the best of the 23s. I don't think they made any money doing it so they got out of the business. When we bought ours I was first tempted by the 22. My wife pointed out that I was not a DIY person and that the 23 was a lot more finished and equipped. You have described it well. I don't trailer so the weight difference doesn't matter. Fuel is the cheapest item on my boat budget so that doesn't matter either. I get about 3.3 mpg and that's much better than my 23 Whaler. As a marine engineer I liked the full transom and the fibreglass interior unit that provided really great hull rigidity. I liked the sealed cockpit and I have had now problems with water leakage. I REALLY like the difference in ride when I tested both boats and I like the ide of the twin 60s on the stern. As a year round boater I appreciated the insulation. Thanks to the GFC effects in 2008 the price difference was not so great.

If I was spending the new price money today I would buy a 23 Ranger Tug. In the interim, I love my 23 Venture.
 
Just a few real life observations. First there is no disputing a 22 simply could handle the higher speeds in a chop that a 23 can. Not top speed mind you but cruising speeds where the 22's banged up the occupants to extent they just had to slow down. So I think the hull differences are understated by some. The design of the hull also allows the 23 to center on a trailer and has less side to side shifting. The forward part of the keel has the deeper v and that tapers out to some fairly large chines.
I favored the diesel pickup not because it was necessary but I'm a 5 mph over the speed limit sort of guy. We towed the boat consistently in the 70 mph range in head winds and whatever. Plus we got fuel mileage that was much better than lets say a Toyota Highlander could get in the same conditions pulling a 22. Plus I liked passing Toyota Priuses while going up long grades. We could pass slow moving cars and trucks on two lane highways pretty easily. I'm glad I did buy our diesel truck because now we pull a 10 pound boat and trailer and still achieve fuel mileage better than some 22 owners pulling with older thirsty gas engines. I simply like the right tool for the right job and don't mind paying for it.
 
OP: If you're looking into a 23 then have you considered the 25? "2 foot-itis" is a serious condition that affects some but not all C Brats. Lol.

The 25 is my next boat.......
 
The C Dory 22 vs 23 always brings up a lot of controversy. I hope we have not scared "mcatan2468" away: with almost 2 full pages of posts and 2 weeks we have not heard back from him.

The reality is that there is not a whole lot of difference between the two boats. Boat owners tend verify the type of boat they have selected. If prices were equal and a 23 available, we might have bought a 23. I even looked at a 26 when we were considering the "next boat"--after the Tom Cat.

The C Dory 22 has about 3 degrees of deadrise, and the Venture 23 about 6--Most modern offshore type of boats have at least 3 x that (18 degrees of deadrise), and some (regulator and Contender) up to 26 degrees of deadrise. Deadrise relates to the amount of V in the hull at the transom--the more deadrise, the better the ride into chop--and in some cases, more difficult running down seas. More deadrise planes at a higher speed, and requires more HP for the same speed.

If "mcatan2468" is still around, get a ride on both the 22 and 23, and see how you like both the boat and ride.
 
As Thataway said, I hope the original poster is still around. If not, likely future shoppers will get something out of this thread.

One other thing (that has been touched on, but hey, since we're getting into it here) to think about is how you use the boat when you're not underway. Do you fish? How are the accommodations for that. Do you cruise? If so, then a fair bit of time may be spent at anchor. How does the boat feel to you as a "cabin and back porch" at anchor. Do you envision beaching? How does the boat work for you for getting aboard and ashore. How about whipping up a meal, playing Scrabble, or whatever else you like to do at anchor.

How does the V-berth sleep for you? What about sight lines from the helm or co-pilot seat? Etc. etc. I could see either a 22 or 23 (or both) appealing to various people when testing these things for themselves.

Not that underway is not important, but many of us spend a fair bit of time at anchor or etc. as well when cruising - so how the boat feels to you and works for you that way may also be important.
 
Will-C your picture is worth a 1000 words and shows one big reason I recently decided on a new 22' cruiser instead of the 23'...The 23' is much bigger than the extra foot in length would suggest. Even the 22' is pushing the limits of my storage space (there's no way the 23 would fit in my driveway). And for the weight class the 22' Cruiser is the most well-equipped NW cruiser I can find that runs with only 90 hp (I view the 22' as more of a stretched 19' or 20' boat based on its weight, beam, and power). I'm not into fishing at all just cruising, and speed doesn't matter much to me...going 15 kts or even 7 kts and enjoying the ride is fine by me. So there's an example why the 22' works better for one person, but I totally understand why the 23' Venture would make much more sense for others.
-Mike
 
This has been a good discussion about the two boats.

Something to consider: The 22 Cruiser's hull design was last updated in 1987. The 23 was designed by the next generation of Tolands in the mid 2000's. The 23 is a refinement of the earlier C-Dory hulls.

In case these photos have not been mentioned in this thread, here are some comparison photos of a CD 22 and a CC (Venture) 23: http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
 
Thanks for sharing that link Larry! That's a great side-by-side visual of the two boats. The gunnels and cockpit are markedly bigger on the 23. Wow.

Any similar side-by-side comparisons for the 25 to 26 Venture?
 
One thing about a 22 vs. a 23 is that above about 4000 rpm the MPG of the single engine 22 does not change all the way to WOT.

I recently installed a FF meter on my 22 and I was surprised to notice the same thing. I figured there was a problem with the meter or a calibration issue. It seems that the BoatTest report shows that my meter is accurate. I got pretty much the same MPG as reported at the high end (don't remember the MPG numbers below 4K rpm).
 
South of Heaven,

I do have a set of comparison photos of the CD 25 and the Cape Cruiser 26 (Venture). I will try to get an album together soon.
When comparing, remember that the Cape Cruiser 23 and 26 do not have the same interior trim level as the C-Dory Venture 23 or 26. The interior of the Cape Cruiser is plainer than the C-Dory Ventures.
 
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