Venture 23 (C Dory) Hot Water Heater?

afglobemaster

New member
Hello, can someone please tell me what brand, type, and capacity the C Dory Venture's hot water heater is?

Thinking of adding one to the Cape Cruiser...

Thanks

Joe
 
Most of the 25s and Tomcats were equipped with a standard tank in the 6 gallon size from Seaward.

http://www.fisheriessupply.com/seaward- ... onnections

Many folks have taken them out because they don't use them and others have experimented with smaller models or other methods of heating water for showering or sink use.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=15036

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=10892

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... sc&start=0

I will likely add one of these to our boat in the near future but It has been a little hard to actually order one from over the pond.

http://www.tealwash.com/shop/handeman-motor-vehicles/

Greg
 
Ours is made by Insinkerator model SST serial # 07128616162 our boat is an 2008 so things might have changed. Their stuff is pricey but our faucet and hot water heat have worked fine.
D.D.
 
My own experience mirrors Greg. We never used 6 gallons of hot water. For a shower two gallons of mixed water is fine, when we are cruising, for each of us on the Tom Cat or C Dory25. On the 22 we heat the eater on the stove, and pour it into one of the several Sun Shower bags, if there is not enough sun to heat the water.

I experimented with a one gallon "instant", but it was not designed to hold pressure. A 2.5 gallon tank would be ideal for a shower and usually would be enough for two people who are conserving water.

Another option is one of the portable flow thru hot water heaters, which uses propane for use in the cockpit or along side the boat.
For examaple Zodi: This comes with a pump, and the case doubles as a 4 gallon tank to act as a reservoir to hold water from a lake or a hose. It only heats up to about 100 degrees, but that sure beats a 47 degree lake or inlet.

zip-hot-shower.jpg

Sun shower also makes an inflatable shower enclosure, if modesty is an issue.
 
If I can side-track this thread a bit........

I too don't need the 6 gallon water heater; but it's there, so I won't fix what ain't broke. OTOH, my issue is water conservation. In my world there has never been enough water tankage on a boat. I use water sparingly (I like to anchor and don't go to marinas too often). The thing I'd like to fix is the waste of water that occurs waiting for hot water to hit the galley faucet.

I've been thinking that some sort of small "tankless" hot water unit installed right under the sink, and placed inline with the current hot water line, then set such that it would turn off at a relatively low temperature, might be slick. It would work like this: turn on the hot faucet; the cold water in the hot line starts flowing; the tankless unit heats up the water so that I get instant hot; finally the heated water from the 6 gallon unit arrives; the temp of the input water is now high enough to turn off the tankless unit; from that point on I am using hot water from the 6 gallon unit.

I've been looking around but the "mini" tankless units still use too much wattage (typically 4000 watts). I figured I could knock that down to 1000 watts by using a 240v unit with the 115v or 120v supply I get from my 1000 watt inverter or my Honda 2000i. What I really want is a low flow tankless unit -- trouble is that the manufacturers are all striving for as high a GPM rating as they can get and therefore the wattage tends to be higher than I'd like -- even in "mini" units.

"Insta-Hot" type residential units are lower wattage and cheap, but they all have tanks; and for what I want to do, a tank just defeats the purpose to a large extent. My vision would be to be at anchor; flip on the inverter; and have instant hot to warm water at any time from the 6 gallon tank (whether the 6 gallon water heater was heated up or not....or anywhere in between).

Anyone seen this done? Any units that might work for this application?
 
sgmfish-

Someone with more knowledge of the specific issues will have to help you with these questions, but the most efficient and simplest system I've read about here over the years was to heat the water in a metal pan over a butane stove in the cabin, then load it into a garden sprayer, pump up the pressure by hand, and then go out in the cockpit and have at showering yourself (!)

Not exactly a NASA technology level solution, but very simple, efficient, and water mindful! Cheap, too!

(Rube Goldberg would be proud!)

OK, you can laugh, now! :lol:

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
If you heat water on the stove, don't forget that there are 6 gallons in the water heater and you are not required to turn it on! Saving that will help your resale value too! That gives you some extra capacity.

Charlie
 
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously, I sort of agree with you two; however, my issue is a bit different.

It is not showers and such I'm concerned about, it is very simply the ability to get 2 cups of hot water into the sink to wash something (dishes etc) without wasting a gallon of precious tankage water getting it (long run from port water heater, around the aft part of the cabin, back thru the head, and finally under the sink).

True, I could just pull out my butane stove and heat up some water (which is what I am doing now), but many times it is stowed away. Getting it out, opening up the case, fixing the canister, boiling the water takes 10x times longer than the 30 seconds I need to accomplish whatever it was I needed some hot water for.
 
We tried to do this with a very small tank a few years back with the 25. It turned out that all of these that I found seem to require flow thru--where there was no valve on the end. The tank was not made for the 35 PSI of the water pump). To heat water that fast (flow thru rate), you require a very high wattage. Even a flow thru unit which produces 100 degree water requires 16 amps.

I did solve this problem in one of our cruising boats. We put a simple bypass valve on the hot water system. I put a "T" into the water line into the hot water faucet. We put a valve next to the sink valve, which opened a shunt between the hot water line and the vent line in the tank, configured so that the water flowed back into the water tank. It took about 3o seconds to get good hot water to the tap. We timed it so we turned off the shunt valve, and then opened the normal not water valve and had piping hot water, with no wasted water.

I did find this: Eemax EMT1 1.3-Gallon Mini Tank Electric Water Heater
http://www.amazon.com/Eemax-EMT1-1-3-Ga ... pd_cp_hi_2

It is a 1.3 gallon heater which uses 12 amps and designed to be installed in the pressurized line. So it will work with the Honda EU 2000 I generator. It also is compatible with the wiring in the C Dory. Small tank--hot water.
 
Captains Cat":1pgrdhal said:
If you heat water on the stove, don't forget that there are 6 gallons in the water heater and you are not required to turn it on!... That gives you some extra capacity.

I've never had a water heater on a boat, but only in an RV. However in those, that 6 gallons of water is never "yours" because as soon as you draw some out it is replaced (i.e. the water heater always has water in it). So unless you drain it permanently (in which case you get the 6 gallons to use that one time), it's not really extra capacity. Maybe the one you are talking about is different.
 
Sunbeam":alhobg2a said:
Captains Cat":alhobg2a said:
If you heat water on the stove, don't forget that there are 6 gallons in the water heater and you are not required to turn it on!... That gives you some extra capacity.

I've never had a water heater on a boat, but only in an RV. However in those, that 6 gallons of water is never "yours" because as soon as you draw some out it is replaced (i.e. the water heater always has water in it). So unless you drain it permanently (in which case you get the 6 gallons to use that one time), it's not really extra capacity. Maybe the one you are talking about is different.

Sunbeam, you are correct about how it works but if he's got a 20 gallon water tank and a 6 gallon water heater tank, he carries 26 gallons of water. If he takes the little tank out, he's got only 20 gallons. Essentially he'd be using the 6g tank as an extra tank, only it comes out of the hw faucet.
 
Actually I don't think you could access the extra 6 gallons through the faucet. As soon as the main tank goes dry the water pressure will go to zero and your nice hot water will languish just out of reach.

A properly installed system will have a check valve on the line coming out of the main tank to prevent water from draining back in (like from a hot water tank). So recycling the water through the vent line until it's hot is a clever idea.
 
The Tomcat has a 6gal water heater in it also. For our uses, it's great and I wouldn't take it out. I'm usually moored in the evening with shore power and out fishing during the day. I don't need a ton of water but I do carry 10-15gals. I heat the water up overnight and when I'm out fishing, I still have hot water late in the day. I use that mostly to wash my hands and do dishes. On the way back in, I fill the sink with warm soapy water and toss all the fishing gear we used in the sink. The movement of the boat "washes" it on the way in. I've also taken a few showers in the boat while at shore but to be honest, haven't done that too often. When we have cruised any distance, we usually hit marina's along the way and can easily replenish water. If the marina shower facilities are questionable, I can always shower in the boat. So for my needs a 6 gal water heater is great. YMMV.
 
In comparison of the Tom Cat I owned and the C Dory 25--the 25 had the water heater under the dinette, and it was a long way to travel. The TC 255 had the water heater under the helm seat--and only a couple of feet to travel. The idea behind a one gallon tank is that it will be right under the hot water faucet.

You could make a diverter valve system to use the 6 gallons from the hot water tank--but it is probably more trouble than it is worth--both in making the system, and turning the valves. We just carry an extra 6 gallons of water in a plastic container. No hot water heater--it sure takes up a lot of room!
 
Captains Cat":wisqttsm said:
[

Sunbeam, you are correct about how it works but if he's got a 20 gallon water tank and a 6 gallon water heater tank, he carries 26 gallons of water. If he takes the little tank out, he's got only 20 gallons. Essentially he'd be using the 6g tank as an extra tank, only it comes out of the hw faucet.

Okay, then that's different than water heaters I'm familiar with. The ones I know only fill from the main tank, so you can never "get" that 6 gallons of water. Your faucet "runs out" of water when the main tank is empty and the heater tank is full. So a 20 gallon tank and a 6 gallon water heater tank gives you 20 gallons of usable water (as normally plumbed; there is probably a way to force it with a special plumbing arrangement). I'm thinking of something like an Attwood or Suburban 6-gallon heater; they are common in RV's.
 
Will-C":17e5jy8l said:
This is what we have no six gallon tank required just add a feed from the standard twenty gallon water tank. See the link below

http://www.amazon.com/InSinkErator-H-CO ... nstant+hot

D.D.

Nice unit. Similar to what I tried, but the tank was not able to stand the pressure full time. Dave can that be plumbed to the shower, or do you have to use their faucet? It is only 750 watts, so it could be used by the Honda EU 1000, and less than a one gallon tank.


Nice find also, but I am almost positive that this uses a heat exchanger to get hot water in 10 minutes, with only 16 amps 12 volts. Not sure long it would take with the 12 volt element. Certainly worth exploring, if you have an outboard with a high alternator output.

However, you have stumbled onto the perfect solution for the lack of sleeping quarters for more than 3 people. The JK Habitat, made for the Jeep roof, but think of the possibilities if you were to adopt that to the C Dory!

jkfront3-4open.jpg


You could open the tent aft, or have it rigged to open forward---and have a C Dory 22, which slept 7 people! :lol:
 
Thanks for all the input folks. My issue is saving water when waiting for the hot to arrive at the sink, not the OP's issue; so I sort of high jacked this thread, and now I regret that, but........

Anyhow, to wrap up my issue part of thread, here's what I've concluded (in a nutshell.....what I want won't work). The options seem to be:

1. Use a small "insta-hot" unit under the sink (like many residential houses use except smaller) that stores 1 to 2 gallons of hot water directly under the sink.

2. A small tankless system that has no tank of hot water, but rather heats the water as the water flows through the unit on its way to the faucet.

3. Somehow arrange to have the cold water that now goes down the sink recycled back to the main water tank while you are waiting for the hot water to show up.

#1 -- is not appealing to me for several reasons. First, since the unit has a tank, these units are much larger than I wish them to be. For example, the Eemax unit thataway mentioned is 12.5" x 11" x 10"; the InSinkErater unit that Will-C mentions is 6" x 3.7" x 5.6". Basically these units are a sort of cube of various sizes depending on capacity. If I were to go this way, I'd go with the smallest tank I could. I did not find one that was as small as the unit Will-C found at a mere 2/3 gallon (thanks for that). A 4" deep unit might actually be acceptable especially since it only uses 750 watts (I could run it off the inverter to keep the water hot). Aurelia came up with the only 12v unit I've seen. I like the idea of 12v, but this unit's smallest dimension is 7.9"; plus it's expensive. Finally, IMHO the problem with these "an extra small hot water heat under the sink" solutions is the power drain it would take to keep the water hot during the course of the evening (or whenever). I could find no information as to how good the insulation is around these small tank units; but given their small size, I expect that one would be using a lot of power not just heating up the gallon or so of water in the first place, but also keeping it hot.

#2 -- this bring me to the tankless systems. No power drain to keep the water hot, one just uses power to heat the water one actually uses at the time of use......swell! The one I like is a Bosch Tronic 3000 US6. This unit (like all small tankless units) is quite thin: in this case 6.5" x 12.25" x 3". I've got room for 3 inches!! Unfortunately, I've concluded that this solution won't work either. The problem is that it takes a lot of power in a short time to heat water even a few degrees. Even the small capacity units (0.5 GPM) take 6000 watts. If I did the "drive a 240v unit at 120v" trick to get that down to the 1500 watts my 2000i could handle, I've also cut the possible temperature rise by the same factor of 4. My rough calculations indicate that using 1500 watts at 0.5 GPM would only rise the water temperature some 20 degrees....not nearly enough.

So I don't think my vision of "no wastage" hot water will work....except for thataway's simple and elegant solution of dumping the wasted cold water right back into the main water tank (duh, now why did I think of that!). I am going to look around the boat to see if there is some way to tap into the pressured hot water line near the sink such that the flow could be directed back into the main tank. I figure that if the infrastructure allows it, I could mount a valve in the galley; then through experience determine how long I should leave that valve open such that water of the right temperature is starting to arrive at the sink; then close the valve and open the faucet......viola...."instant" hot with little or no waste.

Later edit......This message got cross-posted with thatway's directly above.
 
I did find one of the Insinkerators which is only 1/3 of a gallon, and only uses 500 amps, to give 40 cups an hour of 190 degree water (I don't believe it has an adjustable thermostat). This is the Hot 1 model.

750 watts is a lot of draw from an inverter on a 12 volt bank: 62.5 amps. That will pretty well deplete a group 24 battery in half an hour…if it is drawing full time.

Looking at any of the Insinkerator type of products I find that all of these are vented, and never under pressure. Thus they cannot be in line with the normal hot water faucet--and must use the spigot which comes with the unit (or one similar), which basically opens flow to the non pressurized tank. There are some which are made to be put in line, and these are the ones which use the huge amount of power. I believe it would be fairly easy to use one of the Hot 1 units with the foot pump in the basic C Dory, with out a pressure system. It would take a simple diversion of flow: hot water valve open, you send the flow thru the hot water tank. valve closed--it goes thru the regular spout. Even 500 watts (42 amps @ 12 volts) is difficult on an inverter for any length of time. But when plugged into the shower power, very doable.

The return of water is going to be fairly easy--but it does involve a on/off valve, and a small tube to go back to the tank. I would use a smaller tube than the vent, so that you are less likely to push water out of the vent. There are "T" which are constant diameter flow thru and the side inlet is smaller.
 
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