vaccination

[smckean (Tosca)]

His is a personal opinion without rancor, whether right or wrong & from his own experience & shared by many.

If that's all it was, then not so big a deal; but kennharriet did not limit his comment to his personal opinion; rather he said:

Doctors have confirmed....that the vaccine is causing her health problems...

So the words are not stated as a personal opinion, but rather as a fact confirmed by doctors in a environment of medical expertise since she works in the EMS field. So his post contains far more than personal opinion. It seems to present a medically confirmed fact that some who get the vaccine can be:

....incapacitated and unable to function in daily life....

That's pretty serious stuff!

I'm hoping kennharriet will respond to my previous questions since if indeed this person's reaction was that severe, and was confirmed by doctors as caused by the vaccine, then we all need to know that.

 

[Hunkydory]

There’s been a great deal of differing information on this subject coming from medical personnel. It doesn’t seem so unusual to me that one Doctor or more believed what Ken stated & shared. I have experienced many conflicting views from different Doctors treatment of various injury or illness sustained over the years, as I imagine most here have too.

Jay

 

[kennharriet]

So I am not a doctor. I hope no one is taking their medical advice from this thread. I assure you my friend is suffering a severe reaction to the vaccine, according to her doctors who continue to run tests to determine a treatment strategy.
Personally, I consulted my personal physician before accepting the vaccine. He assured me that although there were risks, they were minimal given my personal health situation. I did not feel any undo risk in doing so and have spent a career making risk management decisions for myself and others in a high risk work environment.
However to quote the fact sheet I signed before taking both shots: “ The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine that may prevent COVID-9. There is no FDA-approved vaccine to prevent COVID 19.” The fact sheet also provides a long list of possible side effects, including severe reactions. There is a reason none of the drug companies accept any liability for the existing vaccines.
Nothing I provided is anecdotal. Taking the vaccine or any other substance is a personal choice and not mandatory, at least not yet. My personal choice was to take the vaccine when the opportunity presented itself. I respect the choices others make. Ken

 

[NORO LIM]

. . . Nothing I provided is anecdotal. . . ./quote]

Perhaps there is some confusion of terminology?
The post in question is based on a sampling of one - a friend who suffered medical problems after taking a vaccine. I think that qualifies as "anecdotal," i.e., "based on incidental observations or reports rather than systematic evaluation."

 

[ssobol]

There’s been a great deal of differing information on this subject coming from medical personnel. It doesn’t seem so unusual to me that one Doctor or more believed what Ken stated & shared. I have experienced many conflicting views from different Doctors treatment of various injury or illness sustained over the years, as I imagine most here have too.

Jay

A couple of years ago, I broke my wrist. I ended up going to three different doctors. I got three different answers on how my broken wrist should be treated. Each doctor was sure that their treatment was best and didn't really understand why the other doctors would do it differently.

 

[colbysmith]

Sometimes, if not many times, the medical solution is more of an art than a science. Physicians & Surgeons rely on their education and experience, and then give it their best. I still trust them, and I guess it's up to me to figure out which answer I like the best when I'm presented with more than one. All medications have side affects. That being said, I trust my life to the vaccine over catching the virus. Colby

 

[thataway]

Colby, I would put it as the "Art "of practicing Medicine, and the science of treatment. Unfortunately the "Art", is disappearing. Treatment may be getting better. I advise friends to take a person with them to confirm what was said by the physician, have a list of questions, and take a recording of what the physician said. Also if you don't understand say "stop" I don't understand. Can you explain that so I can understand?

Also an orthopedic surgeon can keep an internist busy full time! I tend to favor the least invasive procedure the better.

 

[colbysmith]

I advise friends to take a person with them to confirm what was said by the physician, have a list of questions, and take a recording of what the physician said.

Hi Bob,
I really support what you say here. Maybe not necessarily the recording, (which is a good idea), but with any serious situation, having someone else go with you to take notes or just provide another set of ears. The patient is already under a lot of stress and many times will not hear all of what is being said. This was especially true with my late wife and her cancer appointments. There were many times she didn't register all the doctor was saying, as her mind was many times going in a different direction. Even with more mundane things like Rotator Cuff repair, I was glad to have Rosanne with me to pick up on stuff I missed that the doc was saying. And it is especially good for the care giver at home to be there to understand the diagnosis and plan of attack. I've never ever had any physician or other medical staff member appear disturbed by my presence with my wife, or her presence with me, at an appointment. I've also been fortunate to have some really great doctors! Colby

 

[Barry Rietz]

Is a universal corona-virus vaccine possible?
https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2021-03-21 ... index.html

 

[hardee]

I advise friends to take a person with them to confirm what was said by the physician, have a list of questions, and take a recording of what the physician said.

Hi Bob,
I really support what you say here. Maybe not necessarily the recording, (which is a good idea), but with any serious situation, having someone else go with you to take notes or just provide another set of ears. The patient is already under a lot of stress and many times will not hear all of what is being said. This was especially true with my late wife and her cancer appointments. There were many times she didn't register all the doctor was saying, as her mind was many times going in a different direction. Even with more mundane things like Rotator Cuff repair, I was glad to have Rosanne with me to pick up on stuff I missed that the doc was saying. And it is especially good for the care giver at home to be there to understand the diagnosis and plan of attack. I've never ever had any physician or other medical staff member appear disturbed by my presence with my wife, or her presence with me, at an appointment. I've also been fortunate to have some really great doctors! Colby

Totally agree. A patient should always have an advocate, at least for listening, and it is always good moral support/companion there. After 40 years working in hospitals, I have seen many times when having someone else in the patients room was a very worth endeavor. It is always the best practice.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[ssobol]

Another thing I have noticed about doctors these days is that they are concerned with their specialty. If a patient has multiple issues they will be seen by multiple doctors treating them for individual particular problems. This can cause a lot of issues with treatment interactions. Your cardiac doctor is not interested (or maybe even aware of) what your kidney doctor is doing. I know someone who was seeing multiple doctors for multiple issues. He ended up getting all messed up. In and out of hospitals and nursing homes because of this or that for about 9 months. Turns out that all the different drugs he was on were interacting and causing a load of problems. He finally ended up in a hospital that assigned a care coordinator to his case. This person sorted out all the drug issues and coordinated the treatments to reduce the interactions. This sorted out the issues and this man recovered quite well and was able to go home.

So the short answer is that if you are being treated for multiple things, get a care coordinator. It seems that this is becoming more common practice nowadays, but I'm not sure it happens all the time.

 

[thataway]

Is a universal corona-virus vaccine possible?
https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2021-03-21 ... index.html

From a scientific standpoint this would be very difficult. Also consider who owns and runs this news source:

CGTN, formerly known as CCTV-9 and CCTV News, is an international English-language cable TV news service, one of six channels provided by China Global Television Network, which is based in Beijing, China, and owned by China Central Television (CCTV), a state-owned media organization in China, under the control of the Publicity Department of the Chinese Communist Party.

On an entirely different light--consider the response of the director of CDC and her response during today's press meeting. She was moved to the point of tears because of a fear that we may follow the path taken in Europe (and a number of other first world countries who began to allow more gatherings, open restaurants, decrease barriers--and they are now seeing a very significant resurgence of the infections. Unfortunately there has been a slightly upward trend in the last few days here in the US. "Spring Break"- Miami a week ago is an example. Theoretically we could be close to "herd immunity, with 35% of the population vaccinated, and about 35% of the population having infections at some time. But since there is a crossover between these two populations it may not be as good as it seems on superficial review.

Also although some of the 1st World countries are making progress, some of second and 3rd world are rapidly going into crisis. Looking at number of doses per 100 persons of population: Isreal has administered 114, UAE next at 83, Chilie and UK at about 50, US at about 43, and then it really drops off. Brazil which is in crisis mode, has only given 8 doses out of 100 population. It may be even worse than it seems, since many of those vaccinated got two doses. The vast majority of the World has less than 4 out of 100 vaccinate doses give. Over all for the World it is only about 6 out of 100 persons.....

 

[Peter & Judy]

Also although some of the 1st World countries are making progress, some of second and 3rd world are rapidly going into crisis. Looking at number of doses per 100 persons of population: Isreal has administered 114, UAE next at 83, Chilie and UK at about 50, US at about 43, and then it really drops off. Brazil which is in crisis mode, has only given 8 doses out of 100 population. It may be even worse than it seems, since many of those vaccinated got two doses. The vast majority of the World has less than 4 out of 100 vaccinate doses give. Over all for the World it is only about 6 out of 100 persons.....

The reality is that this pandemic will not be over until we get most of the worlds almost 8 billion people vaccinated. International travel, trade and variants will keep us under some levels of restriction for several more years. So even if the rich countries like the US, Canada and the EU can get the majority of their population vaccinated this year, life will get easier for us. But, life will not go back to normal until the poorer parts of the world will get their vaccinations. Countries like Bolivia, Uganda or Nepal will need a lot of help to stop this pandemic. Once we get the rich people of this world vaccinated, then it is our duty as rich countries to supply and ensure that those less fortunate get their vaccinations as well. This will likely be a few years off. Right now we are seeing vaccination Nationalism as rich countries try to hoard all the vaccines they can for use in their own population first. A low risk American will be vaccinated before a high risk Guatemalan. Money rules the world.

 

[smckean (Tosca)]

Money rules the world.

Kind of our version of "survival of the fittest". We are not an admirable species, but then I can't think of another species that is much better (even my sweet cat is ruthless when it comes to killing, read torturing, birds).

However, I remain proud of my species. Why? Because we are that which produces ART. I love art.....all kinds of art. Especially the performing arts. And only us can make it.

 

[thataway]

Another thing I have noticed about doctors these days is that they are concerned with their specialty. If a patient has multiple issues they will be seen by multiple doctors treating them for individual particular problems. This can cause a lot of issues with treatment interactions. Your cardiac doctor is not interested (or maybe even aware of) what your kidney docto.

Yes, this is happening. The Internist or geriatrician should be that primary care physician. (There are a few family docs around also.).

One of the situations which complicates all of this is physicians no longer taking care of the patients the hospital. The "hospitalist" rotates in and out on shifts and may have to see as many as 50 patients on a 24 hour shift. Terrible way to practice medicine.

I keep a list of medications, my medical condition, major surgeries, allergies etc on a laminated card the size of my driver's license--just in back of the driver's license. This gives any ER doc or Paramedic etc immediate access to both the sum of your RX snd medical issues. When I see my physicians--and the primary is an internist--I have a list of current medications and any new medical issues written down. When I see a new physician, I have a complete medical history, along with what we call a review of systems (staring with Eyes, ears, down to toes.)...It saves everyone time, and you can hand the DR what you want him to know. If I have questions they are also written down.

 

[RobLL]

I keep the same information on a word processor document and give it to the office before I see the doctor. the second page is information specific things for whatever person I am visiting - medical, surgical, dental. I kind of evaluate medical people by whether they read them or not. It all is summarized so it can be read in a minute or two.

 

[Barry Rietz]

Astra-Zeneca vaccine use suspended in Canada:

https://www.axios.com/astrazeneca-canad ... fe45f.html

 

[krc]

Not sure what is going on, but I think I previously shared that my relatives are flocking to the US for their vaccinations. Aunt was just down a couple of weeks ago for her second shot. Other of her friends are flying to FL where she claims the US doesn't check citizenship (for the shot). Not sure if that is true - as I had to show my DL for my vaccine (California - JJ one-shot). I think she said once she goes back into CA, even after vaccination, you still have to quarantine for 10 days?

BTW - the article I think is saying they are still allowing AstraZ for > 55. So all is not lost. The elderly are the key. And, many were able to get a "first" shot - the second will just be very much delayed but there is not necessarily a significant decrease in the vaccine's efficacy (supposedly).

We need to keep the border closed until the distribution issues are resolved.

But, I still wonder if the risk assessment is correct. There has been a great cost to our youth, young professionals, and certain sectors of the economy.

ProPublica had an interesting article on NM vs TX for schools. Each state took completely different approaches - but the covid per capita rates are very close. Was the extreme nature of the NM lockdown really worth it? Likely not.

https://www.propublica.org/article/the- ... -teenagers

Here in CA many school boards are threatened with recalls. Many districts are reluctant to open... though the Governor is now threatening funding reductions for schools that don't open to in-person learning (remote learning is a failure - in CA at least - not just because only privileged families have access to key tech but it is just not effective for many students - particularly those who were marginal students to begin with.) It is disgraceful.

 

[krc]

Right now we are seeing vaccination Nationalism as rich countries try to hoard all the vaccines they can for use in their own population first. A low risk American will be vaccinated before a high risk Guatemalan. Money rules the world.

And why a country should never allow the outsourcing of key technologies and its manufacturing base. Too late for many "modern" countries. It is the nature of war.

Guatemala seems to be doing well though... right now of course.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... s.html#map

Generally, countries with lower average population age tended to resist covid impacts better; however, in comparing youth between developing and mature countries there is a slightly different story in that youth in developing countries are more significantly impacted comparatively.

https://publications.iadb.org/publicati ... ntries.pdf

 

[RobLL]

Res schools - the regimented, get perfect attendance, sit in classes in a row may, and hopefully so, die the death of covid. Some sort of hybrid, as they are not talking about office work, will arise. A Republican state legislator has suggested a two month summer term. That could mean 4 terms a year, teachers and students generally doing 3 terms a year. ZOOM still a tool, more individual tutoring, and progress as fast as the student wants to.

sorry - this is off topic