Using DSC

[colbysmith]

Got an interesting call back from Standard Horizon tech today. After more research on my radio, they learned of an issue that AFFECTS ALL GX2150 Radios! Apparently, the DSC automatic test function, only sends out a 1 watt signal. (I may have missed if this affected only the test signal, or all DSC signals, including the Distress signal). They fixed that on my radio by updating the firmware, but then found while the radio would transmit the signal at 25 watts, it was immediately switching back to the in use frequency without waiting for a reply! I'm now told their engineers are working on this and as soon as the techs get the new software to fix this issue, they'll get my radio working properly and sent back to me. Again, this issue apparently affects ALL GX2150 Radios! Colby

 

[colbysmith]

This is the email I got from Standard Horizon when I asked for them to also forward me an email with the situation:


This is a follow up email in regards to the conversation we just had. Your radio has version 3.03 firmware in it and it was not allowing your radio to transmit at 25 watts during a DSC test. We’ve since upgraded to version 4.11 and it now puts out 25 watts but no longer waits for the acknowledgement. We are communicating with our engineering team and asking them to provide an update to the firmware or software to get that taken care of.

Best regards,
Juan Hernandez
j.hernandez@yaesu.com
Standard Horizon
6125 Phyllis Drive
Cypress, Ca 90630
Ph: 714-827-7600
Fx: 714-527-9472

 

[hardee]

Got an interesting call back from Standard Horizon tech today. After more research on my radio, they learned of an issue that AFFECTS ALL GX2150 Radios! Apparently, the DSC automatic test function, only sends out a 1 watt signal. (I may have missed if this affected only the test signal, or all DSC signals, including the Distress signal). They fixed that on my radio by updating the firmware, but then found while the radio would transmit the signal at 25 watts, it was immediately switching back to the in use frequency without waiting for a reply! I'm now told their engineers are working on this and as soon as the techs get the new software to fix this issue, they'll get my radio working properly and sent back to me. Again, this issue apparently affects ALL GX2150 Radios! Colby

Colby,

WOW, this is good info. Actually, I have not done a DSC test on my 2150 since it was installed. I believe we tested it with a position request when it was installed at Roger's Marine, but that would have been a very short distance use, and I doubt that we sould have picked up on the 1 watt vs 25 watt difference.

I will have to go and check what software version I am running in my 2150. Thanks for passing this on.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[thataway]

Interesting, but not worth sending the radio back to SH just for that. I wonder what else is in Version 3.03 vs version 1.00? (which is probably what I have...).

 

[hardee]

I just had a conversation with Juan Hernandez (714-827-7600) at Yaesu-Standard Horizon tech support. He told me 2 things:
1. The issue is only with the DSC test function, not the actual emergency function.
2. I should send in the GX 2150 VHF for the update, of 4.11 or later and the acknowledgement issue has been resolved.
3. If the radio is under warranty, then the $$ should be covered. For my radio, which is no longer under warranty, it would be like an MMSI change or update and would be $35 plus the shipping.

At this point, I am going to defer to Rogers Marine in Portland to see if they have the capability of checking the radio to see if there is an issue, and if so, if they can take care of it there, rather than sending it away.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

 

[colbysmith]

Harvey, I'm sort of surprised that they wouldn't fix it for free. But glad to hear it's just the DSC test function only. (Still, hard to test if it ain't putting out!) Juan is the same guy I usually email with. Just messaged with him today. Looks like my radio is on it's way back. (It was under warranty). This was his reply:

The unit had firmware updated and required a realignment. Neither of these processes can be done outside the factory. All radio functions were then tested.

So hoping it all works well when I get it back. Colby

 

[thataway]

Last night I rad about the loss of a Brand new Benateau 60, and 5 souls in the South China Sea on a delivery from Hong Kong to the Philippines about a month ago.

Lessons from the exchange about the loss:

1. The EPRIB was not registered until the day before the voyage, and 3 days before it was activated: The information was not in the SAR system in Hong Kong, which delayed rescue attempts. Be sure you register any PLB or EPRIB well before a trip.

2. The boat's skipper made a Sat Phone contact in the Philippines 9 hours before the EPRIB was activated. There was not evidence of distress at that time, and apparently little was said about the impending storm. Good shore contact is essential, A sat phone or text message (Spot Messenger, or Delorme Inreach) is a very good idea, but be sure to relay plans, and any concerns from the boat and from the shore. It is not clear if the danger of storm was discussed. This might just be 20 miles offshore, as well as 150 miles.

3. A search plane was not able to spot any debris or a vessel at the position of the EPRIB. (May have been some time after the signal was lost --which was over 48 hours)--No second EPRIB or PLB was on board. If a second EPRIB is aboard (recommended for ocean voyages), it should not be activated until 48 hours, or the battery of the first unit has discharged. This assures that SAR knows that you are still alive, and in need of rescue. That will increase possibility of SAR finding you. The PLB should be activated last--and also serves as a beacon for SAR localization.

4. DSC: The general opinion was that there were very few successful rescues with DSC. This confirms that most DSC radios are not registered, or the operator is not familiar with DSC. This does not mean that DSC should not be used,--but that don't count on it--have the PLB or EPRIB!

5. The DSC should be left on, and not canceled, until rescue is available. DSC can act as a "Beacon" for RDF. There are SART- AIS beacons, (Like man overboard beacons,) which are short range portable AIS transmitters, by Kannad Marine, Weatherdock, and McMurdo. "AIS SARTS also collect your coordinates via GPS but they take this information and (like older RADAR activated SART) broadcast it to all nearby ships." This transmits your distress location to nearby ships, specifically in Man over board, but like the DSC enabled VHF will serve as a beacon to get all ships involved.

6. McMurdo, and Kannad Marine are now making GPS enabled PLB with 48 hour minimal length of service batteries, as the EPRIB has currently. It might be worth considering getting one of these, when you upgrade the PLB--batteries are user replaceable (5 year battery life)

http://www.landfallnavigation.com/maxgplb.html

7. Near Coast, or if in fleets offshore, DSC may/will be useful--if other vessels or shore stations are in in VHF range. DSC is also available in MF and HF (SSB) radios--these are rarely monitored, and it is strongly suggested than any boat traveling outside of the VHF range be equipped with either a Sat Phone, or some satellite texting device.

We say--How does all of this apply to us C Dory owners? We do take our boats offshore, and into areas where there is no VHF radio reception. The PLB/EPRIB takes at least 30 minutes to get rescue under way (because of layers of the SAR/confirmation by contacts that boat or person is where it may be in distress. We might be better served--as Sat Phones become cheaper/ Sat texting devices (SPOT Messenger or Delorme Inreach) may give both a faster and more specific response. For example, with the rescue at Lake Powell, it took us about an hour to get help--both because of difficulty with Cell phone and VHF marine reception. A Sat phone would have gotten help much faster. In this case, it didn't make a difference--in many emergencies, it might--such as massive trauma, or a heart attack.

The Benateau 60 and the 5 people aboard were never found.

 

[colbysmith]

I think it beneficial to make use of what is available. The nice thing about DSC is that all boats with DSC in range will receive your distress signal. As boaters we should know how to use the equipment we have. Unfortunately, that is not always the case.

 

[hardee]

Harvey, I'm sort of surprised that they wouldn't fix it for free. But glad to hear it's just the DSC test function only. (Still, hard to test if it ain't putting out!) Juan is the same guy I usually email with. Just messaged with him today. Looks like my radio is on it's way back. (It was under warranty). This was his reply:

The unit had firmware updated and required a realignment. Neither of these processes can be done outside the factory. All radio functions were then tested.

So hoping it all works well when I get it back. Colby

Colby, Glad your radio is on the way. That would sound like the "no longer waits for acknowledgement" thing has been fixed.

I'm curious why a fairly new radio (yours), would need "realignment" and what that actually is?

Bob, Thank you for the good info on the EPIRB/PLB battery and the DSC/sat phone info too.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[Foggy]

Last night I rad about the loss of a Brand new Benateau 60, and 5 souls in the South China Sea on a delivery from Hong Kong to the Philippines about a month ago.

Lessons from the exchange about the loss:

1. The EPRIB was not registered until the day before the voyage, and 3 days before it was activated: The information was not in the SAR system in Hong Kong, which delayed rescue attempts. Be sure you register any PLB or EPRIB well before a trip.

2. The boat's skipper made a Sat Phone contact in the Philippines 9 hours before the EPRIB was activated. There was not evidence of distress at that time, and apparently little was said about the impending storm. Good shore contact is essential, A sat phone or text message (Spot Messenger, or Delorme Inreach) is a very good idea, but be sure to relay plans, and any concerns from the boat and from the shore. It is not clear if the danger of storm was discussed. This might just be 20 miles offshore, as well as 150 miles.

3. A search plane was not able to spot any debris or a vessel at the position of the EPRIB. (May have been some time after the signal was lost --which was over 48 hours)--No second EPRIB or PLB was on board. If a second EPRIB is aboard (recommended for ocean voyages), it should not be activated until 48 hours, or the battery of the first unit has discharged. This assures that SAR knows that you are still alive, and in need of rescue. That will increase possibility of SAR finding you. The PLB should be activated last--and also serves as a beacon for SAR localization.

4. DSC: The general opinion was that there were very few successful rescues with DSC. This confirms that most DSC radios are not registered, or the operator is not familiar with DSC. This does not mean that DSC should not be used,--but that don't count on it--have the PLB or EPRIB!

5. The DSC should be left on, and not canceled, until rescue is available. DSC can act as a "Beacon" for RDF. There are SART- AIS beacons, (Like man overboard beacons,) which are short range portable AIS transmitters, by Kannad Marine, Weatherdock, and McMurdo. "AIS SARTS also collect your coordinates via GPS but they take this information and (like older RADAR activated SART) broadcast it to all nearby ships." This transmits your distress location to nearby ships, specifically in Man over board, but like the DSC enabled VHF will serve as a beacon to get all ships involved.

6. McMurdo, and Kannad Marine are now making GPS enabled PLB with 48 hour minimal length of service batteries, as the EPRIB has currently. It might be worth considering getting one of these, when you upgrade the PLB--batteries are user replaceable (5 year battery life)

http://www.landfallnavigation.com/maxgplb.html

7. Near Coast, or if in fleets offshore, DSC may/will be useful--if other vessels or shore stations are in in VHF range. DSC is also available in MF and HF (SSB) radios--these are rarely monitored, and it is strongly suggested than any boat traveling outside of the VHF range be equipped with either a Sat Phone, or some satellite texting device.

We say--How does all of this apply to us C Dory owners? We do take our boats offshore, and into areas where there is no VHF radio reception. The PLB/EPRIB takes at least 30 minutes to get rescue under way (because of layers of the SAR/confirmation by contacts that boat or person is where it may be in distress. We might be better served--as Sat Phones become cheaper/ Sat texting devices (SPOT Messenger or Delorme Inreach) may give both a faster and more specific response. For example, with the rescue at Lake Powell, it took us about an hour to get help--both because of difficulty with Cell phone and VHF marine reception. A Sat phone would have gotten help much faster. In this case, it didn't make a difference--in many emergencies, it might--such as massive trauma, or a heart attack.

The Benateau 60 and the 5 people aboard were never found.

Gadgets don't protect you. On the water, we increase our risk. Then, why
do we do it? Because we are alive and it is how we choose to live.

Richard Bode, in First You Have to Row a Little Boat, said it best:

"...we live in perilous times. Even in my most secure moments, when I lie in
bed with loving arms around me, I know that this is so. I try to persuade myself
than I'm safer than my Stone Age ancestors because my world has a civilized
veneer, but the truth is that I'm no more protected in my clapboard house
(or boat) than they were in their cave.

The voice of an ancient forebear rises within me and issues a warning cry. The
cougar still lurks above my head; the barbarian horde still threatens my town.
I put my trust in the electronic appliances of my age; surely they will defend me
against the pestilence that rises without warning and spreads like locusts across
the land. But once again I know I am allowing myself to be deceived. The only
security I know, that I will ever know, lies in me. And so I sit high on the windward
deck and tell myself to watch the sail, feel the wind, and beware the jibe."

Aye.

 

[colbysmith]

Hi Harvey, I'm not sure what a "realignment" is either. My radio was only transmitting in low wattage when it did the DSC test. They updated the firmware to fix that, but then said that it was not waiting for acknowledgement, so they would have the engineers reprogram the software and then would install that update when they got it. Perhaps when they flashed the new firmware, it requires some kind of "reset" of the radio.... Either way, I just hope it works as it's suppose to when I get it back in the boat! Colby

 

[JamesTXSD]

...

Gadgets don't protect you. On the water, we increase our risk. Then, why
do we do it? Because we are alive and it is how we choose to live.

Richard Bode, in First You Have to Row a Little Boat, said it best:

"...we live in perilous times. Even in my most secure moments, when I lie in
bed with loving arms around me, I know that this is so. I try to persuade myself
than I'm safer than my Stone Age ancestors because my world has a civilized
veneer, but the truth is that I'm no more protected in my clapboard house
(or boat) than they were in their cave.

The voice of an ancient forebear rises within me and issues a warning cry. The
cougar still lurks above my head; the barbarian horde still threatens my town.
I put my trust in the electronic appliances of my age; surely they will defend me
against the pestilence that rises without warning and spreads like locusts across
the land. But once again I know I am allowing myself to be deceived. The only
security I know, that I will ever know, lies in me. And so I sit high on the windward
deck and tell myself to watch the sail, feel the wind, and beware the jibe."

Aye.

Sorry if this direct response might be interpreted as not following the "be nice" rule... but, what a crock. A wise mariner uses everything available to increase the safety of any trip. On a basic small boat on a small lake, that might be a cell phone (plenty of lakes out there where VHF simply isn't used). If you HAVE those "electronic appliances" (VHF, chartplotter, depth finder, radar, AIS, SPOT device, autopilot, EPIRB, PLB, cell phone, iPad, computer, etc, etc), should you NOT use them so you won't be "deceived"??

Pretty sure you didn't make that post via smoke signals - an "electronic appliance" was used. Most of us have plenty of "electronic appliances" that we use every day. This bravado and quoting someone else (whether it is a grandma or an author) isn't indicative of thinking for yourself. And, as usual, doesn't add anything to the topic being discussed.

If I were between a rock and a hard place, I would want every "electronic appliance" that might be of use, AND Dr. Bob by my side. He has walked the walk and may be the most thoughtful and capable mariner on this forum. And by "may be," I mean: he is.

What possible useful information was imparted with that post?? YOU are listening to an author who passed away before the SPOT device was a thing?**

Your jabs at Dr. Bob and others who do share useful information are tiresome.

I am guessing, if you do actually take your boat out, if you hit something in the water and the boat was going down, you would be ELATED to have every "electronic appliance" at your disposal to aid in your recovery.

I certainly don't espouse being unprepared, but to not use any/all available resources because you are a tough, self-rescuing kinda guy is foolhardy at best, and hypocritical with your use of an "electronic appliance" to impart your wisdom here.

Feel free to tell us the error of my ways, but this will be the last time I read or respond to your words here.

AYE.



** Richard Bode worked at McGraw Hill and was editorial director and chief speechwriter at Burston-Marsteller. As a freelance writer, he contributed to "Reader's Digest," "Good Housekeeping," "Sail, Sports Illustrated." He is also the author of Blue Sloop at Dawn (1979), which was excerpted in "Sports Illustrated," "Newsday Sunday Magazine," and Sail, and wrote the award-winning essay "To Climb the Wind." He died in 2003 of liver cancer.


--------------------

On edit: Maybe I haven't given Foggy a chance? Why don't you tell us all, in your own words (not a quote from an author or a grandparent), how you were in a dire situation and self-rescued.

 

[BrentB]

Bravo, Jim and well stated. Thank you.

 

[Foggy]

I haven't had a rant like that from a few of my words and a quote from one
of my favorite passages. Sorry you didn't like it.

Simply put, it is another point of view: Bob's critique on a tragedy showed
lots of gadgets not helping perhaps due to poor planning, questionable
judgement, not thorough checks before departure, maybe bad luck thrown
in too. It also points out, some need all the latest and greatest gadgets and
don't have a clue how to use them properly.

Aye.

 

[Aurelia]

Configuring the DSC Function of a VHF is the first thing I do after testing the antenna when installing a new radio (5 so far). I can't even imagine not making ready such a clever and simple safety feature in the best interest of my boating companions.

Any Brat struggling with this should put a post out on the site for help and expect to get it. I really think we could even form a simple tech support gang (where Brats are thick) and go out to boats to help on occasion.

I also use a couple of Standard Horizon radios in the boat and while I don't test my DSC function with rigid regularity, I run the radio like its going out of style. This is while a PLB is literally attached to my PFD. I may act pretty lax in person but it's only because I have done the work to put myself in that relaxed place.

As a gadget instructor, I can attest that many folks are not very slick with their tech tidbits, but they can still get lucky with them if they have them in hand. Plus, the amount of luck needed keeps going down.

Greg

 

[hardee]

I am also a believer in having and using whatever adjuncts I can have or make available. As some of you are aware, I am a FIRM believer in redundancy, to the point the guys at Rodgers Marine think I go overboard, which I have absolutely no intention of doing, HOWEVER if that situation were to come up, or down, whichever the case, I want to know that I have made every attempt to have what works and know it is working.

To that end, I do a radio check on each radio at launching. (AND NO that is not on 16,*) and I have a handheld on my PFD, the radar is on and AIS is on, the weather has been checked and the PFD is on. The float plan has been opened and a call to confirm a destination has been made.

We are boating in a hostile environment. That needs to be remembered. We do it every day, and nothing bad happens, but believe me, it only takes once, one little thing to turn your world upside down. It's best to try and make sure that little thing is not going to happen today, on this ride, ever.

* In some areas there are automated radio check stations. VHF channel 28 is commonly used for them. USCG will answer a radio check on 22, Canada on 82. Know where to go to get your information for your area.

This has been a good learning spot for me. I need to learn to do the DSC tests and include that into my regularly practiced procedures. I think it is always a good practice to think of safety before you need it.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

 

[colbysmith]

I have backups for backups. lol. (Guess that's the airline pilot in me...) Regarding Foggy's post, I'm sure he is more than capable for sticking up for him self, but I do want to share that while I find he can be a bit abrasive at times (maybe just a cranky old sailor? :roll: ), I did not take his comments as derogatory. I did take them to mean that we can have all the gadgets in the world, but we are still on our own. Reqarding Bob's comments, I enjoy reading much of what he writes also, especially when I increase my knowledge from his experience; however, I was a bit put off by his comment: Interesting, but not worth sending the radio back to SH just for that. I wonder what else is in Version 3.03 vs version 1.00? Personally, I wonder if one is not willing to insure their equipment works properly, why bother with having it in the first place? (Same goes for not using your electronics to their fullest extent in regards to safety) But, alas, if everything else appears to work properly, or at least the functions we use, I can see Bob's point too. Ok, done moderating! :wink: Colby

 

[rogerbum]

I'm glad to see there's a few other anal retentive safety guys around who also have backups for the backups. In my case this is both for "excess" safety and due to the fact that I often plan to fish for a week (or more) and I leave my boat far away from home and good access to services for most of the summer. If something electronic on the boat fails, I don't want to have to fix it prior to the next trip or in the middle of this one. Hence I have:

2 fixed mount chart plotters + my ipad and my phone (both running Navionics). Both chart plotters have their own transducers.

I have two fixed mount AIS capable VHF radios. Each one of those is hooked into a separate chart plotter. One has internal GPS for the DSC distress call, the other gets it's position from the plotter. Both have the same MMSI number which was registered with the FCC when I got my ship's radio license.

I have a spare, handheld VHF and a spare handheld garmin chart plotter in my ditch bag (which I keep near the helm).

I have my own PLB and so does my buddy.

I only have one radar dome but I set up the cabling so I can easily switch it between chartplotters if one fails.

I go over the operation of the radios with guests, make them all wear a PFD at all times and show them where the ditch bag and emergency equipment is at. I also show them where the boarding ladder is at (stored on the transom ready to be deployed) and where the heaving bag is at and how to use it. I also show them how to steer and how to kill and start the engines, neutral and forward etc.

I've spent a lot of time getting to know all my fancy electronics and while I could venture offshore without them, I won't. There's no need to do so. I also don't buy arguments that having so much electronics is a "distraction" from using my eyes and ears like a real sailor. My eyes and ears come along too and I instruct guests to serve as additional sets.

 

[thataway]

Colby,
Sorry, that comment about not sending the radio back was NOT directed at you. I apologize, I had not realized you would take it personally. I should have been clearer, that it would not be worth it to me. I happen to have radio test gear, so I know that my radios are putting out full 25 watts, and can also test modulation as well as frequency. The fact that it was low on "Test" mode, would have been fine for me. If it was a genuine safety concern, then SH should have recalled the radios and fixed all of them.

Often we can update many of our electronics, with a SD card, in a card reader--that is not a capability of the VHF radios. I don't know of anyone who sends radios back for update of software...

"Realignment" means twerking the output circuit to get full power being sure that frequencies are spot on. This used to mean turning small pots. I suspect it is now done with software, and a computer. I check antennas for SWR to be sure that they are also working to the full capacity.

As for safety devices--I also have redundancy. Those who were with us at Catalina or Powell this year would tell you that we had life jackets, (belt, inflatable) & ditch bag always in the dinghy (Includes PLB, VHF radio, extra batteries, and survival gear). I want to increase my chances of survival, and do many things perhaps "un-necessary" in some's views, to assure that my boat is safe, and I have gear to repair broken systems. I had considered a Sat Phone for our AK trips--and under many circumstances would have obtained one. (Or a Delorme InReach for text.)

 

[colbysmith]

No problem Bob. And thanks for that info on "realignment". The tech did tell me earlier that after they flashed the new firmware, because of the new problem of the radio not waiting for acknowledgement, they would get the engineers to update software to fix that. Still haven't got the radio back, but I understand it was in their shipping dept to send back out. Got my new Webasto Heater today, so I'll be busy installing that too. I'll put the sat phone on hold. I'm still trying to learn how to use my iPhone! :roll: And besides, where I boat I can still see shore and hardly ever out of VHF range. Colby