davewilke1
New member
Great posts from all on this subject. As I've said many times, the hunt is half the fun. It's great to have this site for the discussion .
Twin Engines?
- Thread starter markshoreline
- Start date
Oh Man, I have been reading on this sight for while now and I was sure there was a consensus about the TWINS vs Singles. I'm sure there was somewhere. Oh, that's right it is really TWINS, my vote on my boat. Now you do get to vote, on your boat, and what works for you works for me If it's twins, but if you like a single, or a single and a kicker, hey--it's your boat and you get home the way you choose.
As to the fuel failure issue. SleepyC has separate tank for each engine. Will that eliminate a fuel problem. Maybe not, since fuel fills are at the same time and station for each tank. Yes there is a spin on Racor for each tank, and it does get checked, preflight style. And my kicker: its a 40 HP too. And I agree with Barry and some others. If I get an engine failure, I do not want to be sitting in a 4-5 knot outgoing tide half way across the Strait of Juan and trying to get home on a kicker that will do 4-5 knots, wide open throttle. I don't carry enough lunch to make it to Japan before I get hungry.
And for some, (especially the fly guys, who didn't have a kicker on their airplane) I agree, if you take care of the engine, it will take care of you, but there can always be an exception.... SO I like the double duplicate redundancy program style ... and a good mechanic too.
Harvey Harvey
SleepyC SleepyC
As to the fuel failure issue. SleepyC has separate tank for each engine. Will that eliminate a fuel problem. Maybe not, since fuel fills are at the same time and station for each tank. Yes there is a spin on Racor for each tank, and it does get checked, preflight style. And my kicker: its a 40 HP too. And I agree with Barry and some others. If I get an engine failure, I do not want to be sitting in a 4-5 knot outgoing tide half way across the Strait of Juan and trying to get home on a kicker that will do 4-5 knots, wide open throttle. I don't carry enough lunch to make it to Japan before I get hungry.
And for some, (especially the fly guys, who didn't have a kicker on their airplane) I agree, if you take care of the engine, it will take care of you, but there can always be an exception.... SO I like the double duplicate redundancy program style ... and a good mechanic too.
Harvey Harvey
SleepyC SleepyC
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I can't help myself but to respond. Let's say you have two moderately-sized engines and hit a log in the water that spins both props; you're out of commission. However, if you have one engine down, and the other engine -- a kicker -- out of the water, if you spin a prop on the main engine, you still will have the kicker to take you home. You won't care if you only go 5 knots; you'll be happy to have it. People will tell you that modern engines are reliable -- that they are like car engines. I slightly disagree. Outboards run in a saline environment, which is a harsh environment more prone to corrosion. Further, when we gas up we do not know for sure how old the fuel is, so we could encounter an Ethanol problem (which is why the kicker should have a separate fuel supply to be safe.) I had 5 failures on my new Suzuki 40 HP engine within the first 50 hours. Four times I got back with the kicker. As it turned out, it was an intermittent wiring harness issue that was extremely difficult to ascertain. Regardless, it has left me rattled ever since, and I simply can't have a boat without a second engine despite assurance from sales people and mechanics that "engines are so good today they never fail."
Rich
Rich
We have twin 50's on our cd22. Most of the time we only have one down at a time. Last summer while in the North Channel we had one engine stop - turned out to be high pressure fuel filter. Instead of limping back, we just put the other one down and continued without issues.
We vote for twins....
We vote for twins....
matt_unique
New member
My friends have deceived you. C-Dory's only run in circles unless you have twins. The boat literally cannot be operated without twin engines..... 
It's a fun topic to discuss. For me personally, I favor twins in all circumstances. I have a Tomcat and I jokingly say I have a 150HP kicker. I can plane off with one engine, but would never do this (again) unless it was a dire emergency because it's bad for the engine (lugging). I like having two props, two fuel tanks, 4 fuel filters, etc., etc.
I was once diving near a breakwater. The weather changed and the wind/surf began blowing me toward the breakwater. I went to start the stb engine - nothing. No sweat - I fired up the port engine and backed us off. I would NOT have wanted to run back, drop the kicker, hope it started, then try to back us off with low HP. Proper kicker care means you start it all the time, but for me I like two engines ready to go right in the water. (Turns out my stb start battery wire was loose on the post - my fault).
You can absolutely foul one engine with debris, plastic bags, etc. leaving the other engine in perfect running order. I have had other boats with small kickers and running them in strong winds or current was not fun.
You're vessel will be fine with either choice. I just prefer having 2 of anything critical.
It's a fun topic to discuss. For me personally, I favor twins in all circumstances. I have a Tomcat and I jokingly say I have a 150HP kicker. I can plane off with one engine, but would never do this (again) unless it was a dire emergency because it's bad for the engine (lugging). I like having two props, two fuel tanks, 4 fuel filters, etc., etc.
I was once diving near a breakwater. The weather changed and the wind/surf began blowing me toward the breakwater. I went to start the stb engine - nothing. No sweat - I fired up the port engine and backed us off. I would NOT have wanted to run back, drop the kicker, hope it started, then try to back us off with low HP. Proper kicker care means you start it all the time, but for me I like two engines ready to go right in the water. (Turns out my stb start battery wire was loose on the post - my fault).
You can absolutely foul one engine with debris, plastic bags, etc. leaving the other engine in perfect running order. I have had other boats with small kickers and running them in strong winds or current was not fun.
You're vessel will be fine with either choice. I just prefer having 2 of anything critical.
Just to be really evil :twisted: I am also a devotee of twins, possibly because I was born in the month of June.
AND I also happen to have a small dinghy motor that would just about move my butt in calm water if it had to. Actually performed a test last year in calm water with another RF using a Torqeedo and, Yes, we managed to crab down the marina in zero wind and tide and actually dock without hurting anything. (how the heck could we at 0.005 Kts)
Yup, Sh1t happens but last year I was happy to have 135 HP on tap to get to safety (in lieu of a real Honda dealer) with a non fuel related, warranty covered failure of an $1100 part that eventually cost me about that much to get home to a real dealer who took care of it in 20 minutes.
Bottom line is that when dealing with mother nature (and dealers) the unknown variables can often be much bigger than the known factors so plan for the worst and be ready for worse (but don't lose sight of the fact that this is supposed to be fun).
So go ye forth into the wilderness and feel blessed that you can still see FDD's, and even Bayliners.
M
AND I also happen to have a small dinghy motor that would just about move my butt in calm water if it had to. Actually performed a test last year in calm water with another RF using a Torqeedo and, Yes, we managed to crab down the marina in zero wind and tide and actually dock without hurting anything. (how the heck could we at 0.005 Kts)
Yup, Sh1t happens but last year I was happy to have 135 HP on tap to get to safety (in lieu of a real Honda dealer) with a non fuel related, warranty covered failure of an $1100 part that eventually cost me about that much to get home to a real dealer who took care of it in 20 minutes.
Bottom line is that when dealing with mother nature (and dealers) the unknown variables can often be much bigger than the known factors so plan for the worst and be ready for worse (but don't lose sight of the fact that this is supposed to be fun).
So go ye forth into the wilderness and feel blessed that you can still see FDD's, and even Bayliners.
M
1TUBERIDER
New member
I also have twins.
My preference for twins is due to I boat in the ocean and want redundancy, and better control when near the docks.
Many of us who prefer twins have experience with twins (mine from cg boats). I use my boat for fishing mostly. I have had to come in on one once and to me that validates the twins. I really don't want to call on 16 for help.
I do most of my own engine maintenance and it costs twice as much. Honda seems to sell buried gold in the package or at least they charge like its got gold in it. Still I change fluids and plugs once a year and its not to expensive nor does it take to long. And we all know how much fun we have when we are doing things on our boats. With the twins, I get twice the fun.
Jeff
My preference for twins is due to I boat in the ocean and want redundancy, and better control when near the docks.
Many of us who prefer twins have experience with twins (mine from cg boats). I use my boat for fishing mostly. I have had to come in on one once and to me that validates the twins. I really don't want to call on 16 for help.
I do most of my own engine maintenance and it costs twice as much. Honda seems to sell buried gold in the package or at least they charge like its got gold in it. Still I change fluids and plugs once a year and its not to expensive nor does it take to long. And we all know how much fun we have when we are doing things on our boats. With the twins, I get twice the fun.
Jeff
BrentB":3ie0nihe said:
Don't know comparatively, but do know that my twin 50 HP Johnsons (which are Suziki under a Johnson cover), remind me of a couple of cute kittens purring. Certainly has no one ever complained about the sound level. When tied to a dock most passersby only know they are running when they see water circulating out of the telltales. At speed they just hum along, very soothing.
(Disclaimer: You need to realize that I have profound hearing loss from sirens.)
Grumpy":309ryuhk said:Dave,
You are lucky it's only hearing loss that you have as a result of consorting with "Sirens". Us ancient mariners need to be carefulMerv
Cute Merv, unfortunately the Sirens that I was around YELLED in my ear, they didn't whisper sweet provocative, luring, enchanting and exotic words.
Reading this thread makes it sound like you have to have twins or it is a real safety factor. Out of all of the boats I have owned (and have not counted them up)--and many tens of thousands of miles, I have only owned two boats with twins--one the Tom Cat--and I agree that most cats over 20 feet need twins (my 18 foot cat has only a single outboard)--and one 41 foot motor yacht ("trawler") with twin 210 hp diesels. The rest of the boats had single engines--usually with a dinghy type of engine to push the boat home if I had a failure. I lost a transmission--in that case a dinghy motor got me safer home. Another time I ran out of fuel in the main (that was 50 years ago)--and the dinghy motor get me the last few miles to home. Otherwise, I have not had an engine problem I could not fix on the water, but I did have a dinghy type of motor to get me home. The "cannot make it against currents"--just does not hold water. I cruised the PNW in a boat which averaged 6 knots for 4 years 6 months a year. You can always plan your time at a pass, or wait it out. You can get across any of the straits with a low HP motor--you will not be swept to Japan!
I have noted this before--I spent most of my youth on my father's sailboat--about the same size and windage of a C Dory 25--powered by a single 5 hp outboard. It was very reliable, and yes, we only moved at 5 knots much of the time, but always got there.
Yes, the most likely bad fuel will be in both tanks when you fill up, or due to poor maintenance.--and a good reason to have a separate fuel source--can even pre filter it if necessary.
Looking at the fishing boats where I am currently in the keys--the vast majority under 26 feet have a single engine. Those that have twins are ones which need the HP to get the boat on a plane or get to where there want to go in their reasonable amount of time. These boats venture into the Gulf Stream regularly.
The maintenance cost of a single engine will be less than twins. In my case when I use the dinghy motor--it is a motor which is run daily and it always in good shape.
I have noted this before--I spent most of my youth on my father's sailboat--about the same size and windage of a C Dory 25--powered by a single 5 hp outboard. It was very reliable, and yes, we only moved at 5 knots much of the time, but always got there.
Yes, the most likely bad fuel will be in both tanks when you fill up, or due to poor maintenance.--and a good reason to have a separate fuel source--can even pre filter it if necessary.
Looking at the fishing boats where I am currently in the keys--the vast majority under 26 feet have a single engine. Those that have twins are ones which need the HP to get the boat on a plane or get to where there want to go in their reasonable amount of time. These boats venture into the Gulf Stream regularly.
The maintenance cost of a single engine will be less than twins. In my case when I use the dinghy motor--it is a motor which is run daily and it always in good shape.
aprildanae
New member
We have twins (40hp each) on our 22'. Our fuel consumption is pretty reasonable. I like the look of twins for "cosmetic" purposes but in all reality, we've had one of the motors fail and had to maneuver with one motor and having one 40hp motor is better than a small kicker in my opinion. We don't feel "disabled" when we are only down to one motor with our setup.
davewilke1
New member
I like the fact that the many brats do their own maintenance. I love to work on my mechanical beasties. I have a maintenance log on my 18 year old lawn mower for heavens sake! Maintaining twins would not bother me.
Bob,
Your point is well taken
however it might need to be noted that the low HP trawler speed, sailer types that are crossing the Strait generally PLAN on traveling at 5-8 knots, and plan on using the tide, and current info to their advantage for their crossing. Maybe some of us do that too, but often, the fastboats that get into trouble are the ones who do not us the available info (Washburns's etc) in planning route and time for crossing. Then if they get into trouble half way across, they are at the mercy of the tide, current and weather -- at 4-5 knots on a small motor.
And my comment about winding up in Japan was somewhat tongue in cheek :embarrased I do have one story about a fisherman in a 16 with a single motor that quit on him about half way between Port Angles and Victoria and by the time he rowed back to shore he was over half way to Seiku.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Your point is well taken
however it might need to be noted that the low HP trawler speed, sailer types that are crossing the Strait generally PLAN on traveling at 5-8 knots, and plan on using the tide, and current info to their advantage for their crossing. Maybe some of us do that too, but often, the fastboats that get into trouble are the ones who do not us the available info (Washburns's etc) in planning route and time for crossing. Then if they get into trouble half way across, they are at the mercy of the tide, current and weather -- at 4-5 knots on a small motor.
And my comment about winding up in Japan was somewhat tongue in cheek :embarrased I do have one story about a fisherman in a 16 with a single motor that quit on him about half way between Port Angles and Victoria and by the time he rowed back to shore he was over half way to Seiku.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
20dauntless
New member
I have a single and haven't had a single hiccup in 360 hours of operation. No problems with the single on the other boat in 15 years.
That said, I did get a kicker (6hp Tohatsu) installed last fall before a trip to Alaska. It doesn't move the boat too fast (~5 knots) but it should keep me out of trouble if something happens to the main engine.
That said, I did get a kicker (6hp Tohatsu) installed last fall before a trip to Alaska. It doesn't move the boat too fast (~5 knots) but it should keep me out of trouble if something happens to the main engine.
I am just moving at warp into 2012. Just got an IPad on Boxing Day and an IPhone 4s yesterday. Yikes! I used to tether my doggie, now I tether my phone? It reminds me of last year when I pulled the cowling off my 2010 Yamaha 90 4 stroke EFI Wow what the heck is all that stuff? I only wanted to winterized the cylinders by putting a bit of oil in them. Where the heck are they? I called my mechanic and he said. "put the cowl back on". He said "yes there are plugs... Sort of ...you need 4 wrenches to get to them. It looked like a new car under there. No need for me to muck about. It used to be we could maintain all that. My truck needs plugging into a computer. My phone may need a reboot. My yami needs a software plug in to diagnose. Where will it end Spock? Only 85 trouble free hours this season but for 11k that's what I expect. 20 years ago we used to just cuss at 2 strokes and they smartened up. At least it's not an airplane. Spring is coming. Let's get out there and burn some gas! George :lol: