Transom drain plug

[ssobol]

I have noticed that the drain plug (brass threaded fitting) for my CD-22 is located a little higher than the "sump" in the back of the boat between the fuel pumps. With the plug out, this allows about 1/2 inch of water to remain in the sump most of the time (the water is not high enough to be effectively removed by the bilge pump, the only way to remove all the water is with a sponge). Since water often remains there, any stuff that remains in the water (usually leaves) breaks down into a gross mess that gums up the bilge pump located there. When it is cold the water in the sump can freeze possibly damaging the bilge pump.

This leaves me with three options that I can think off.

- fill in the sump so that the bottom of the sump is level with the bottom of the plug so that all the water will drain out. This will reduce the volume of the sump quite a bit and cause what ever water there may be back there to flow around a bit more.
- move the position of the current drain plug. This will involve patching and filling the transom and then drilling a new hole for the drain plug.
- seal the existing drain plug in place and then install a second plug at the correct position to allow all the water to drain from the sump. This will require drilling the transom, but will not involve filling an existing hole. The boat will just appear to have two drain plugs.

My current thought is to simply add a second drain plug in the correct position and seal the existing one.

Any thoughts?

 

[Bill K]

Get a 12v wet and dry vacuum and suck it out when wet.

Bill Kelleher

 

[thataway]

What size is the plug? Is it a brass tube all of the way thru the transom? You may be able to take off the brass/bronze garboard plug (if that is what you have), and either make a hole for the larger new plug, or put in a larger brass tube expanding type of plug. This may allow you to go from a 3/8 pipe thread to a 1/2" pipe thread plug--or larger. That way the bottom of the hole would be at the bottom of the sump. Think about something like that.

 

[Sunbeam]

A few thoughts/comments:

You say threaded, so this makes me think that rather than the usual brass tube and "thermos stopper," you have a garboard drain style fitting with a threaded plug. I replaced the former style with the latter in my boat. One thing to check on your option of lowering the fitting: most of these have a flanged fitting, and it very well may be that the flange is already flush with the bottom edge of the transom on the outside of the boat. I installed mine this way (using the original hole position) and could not have lowered I without it hanging over the transom bottom on the outside. It does leave a small "rise" inside the sump (on mine there was a rise with the original tube too, due to the angle of the transom and thus the tube).

I wanted all the depth I could get in the sump (I removed the core too, which created a bit more depth), so that the bilge pump could sit as low as possible in relation to the rest of the cockpit bottom, so I just accepted the slight "lip" and will occasionally sponge it out as necessary.

 

[DaveS]

I have noticed that the drain plug (brass threaded fitting) for my CD-22 is located a little higher than the "sump" in the back of the boat between the fuel pumps. With the plug out, this allows about 1/2 inch of water to remain in the sump most of the time (the water is not high enough to be effectively removed by the bilge pump, the only way to remove all the water is with a sponge).

This is the normal configuration. From the sounds of your post, I'm figuring that after you remove the remaining water with a sponge, syringe, turkey baster or whatever you use that more water is coming into the cockpit from rain. The solution for that is to cover the cockpit or if the boat is on the trailer crank the bow of your boat up high enough so the water will mostly drain out.

 

[Sunbeam]

Now that I'm on my computer, I'll add a few photos.

Here is how my boat looked as-built. Not sure if yours has the liner back there ("permanent" flat cockpit sole) or not (mine doesn't). The sump looks a bit shallow because the boat was originally cored there - the core was just thinner than the core in the rest of the bottom. You can see that even as-built, there is room for some water to sit there before it would drain.



I removed the core from the sump (thus making it a bit deeper). Then I put in a garboard-drain style drain (I'm thinking this is what you have since you said it was threaded) in the original hole. I ended up with about the same size "lip" because the combination of changes balanced each other out: i.e. because I removed the transom core there the hole moved "down" (no longer sloping up through thickness of transom); but because I removed the core from the bottom the hole moved up. Upshot: relative height stayed about the same. Anyway... here is the new drain fitting placed into the old hole. You can see that there would be very little room to move it down before it would overlap the transom. I had at first thought I would like to move it down, but then when I stepped through the whole process in mockup phase, I could see that wouldn't work for the aforementioned reason. There are oval shaped drains - the flange is oval - that I think could get a bit closer, but I wanted to use something more standard that also came in bronze (I have an identical bronze fitting in case the Marelon one falls out of my favor). I didn't see the oval ones in bronze -- they seemed to be designed more as "dinghy" fittings.



Here is the inside with the new plug installed. This is with the core removed from both the bottom and the transom in the way of the plug (it is "closed out" with fiberglass/epoxy). The black circle is the drain fitting; the white is the plug (I bought two so I would have spares and got one white and one black then mixed them up so it would be easier to see whether or not the plug was in at a glance).



Sunbeam

 

[tcr_pnw]

This is one thing that has always annoyed me. Any rainwater or leftover water from a wash down just sits in the bilge area. Having a self bailing deck has its appeals. Most annoying when cruising with the wife after a previous fishing outing. The fish water come sloshing out in a swell or turn.

I have a flat floor in my 23. I've contemplated removing some of the false floor in that bilge area, walling it off and making a further reccessed area to collect that water. I'd burry my workhorse 750gph pump in there to get the water out on a regular basis, then mount the 1500gph above on the floor for an emergency.

 

[Sunbeam]

That's something I hadn't thought about with the "built in" flat cockpit sole; the fact that previous bilge/washdown/fishing water could "re-visit" you at a later date. Like you, I would probably be thinking about how to improve upon that situation.

(I have just the simple "hull" cockpit sole and then removable floorboards, which I can leave out or in as desired.)

I haven't seen exactly how the flat sole is set up (and maybe they are not all the same), but... thinking out loud... there must be a small "drain" hole on the after end of the built up part? And that is how you are getting "bilge" water in there and having it come back out later?

I think unless the design is inherently "perforated" (in other words, water flows freely in and out from various locations on purpose), I would consider sealing it off completely (from day-to-day water) and then doing something like putting in an access plate or plates that would allow you to get in there occasionally to make sure it was dry and/or clean if necessary.

I may be all washed up in that thinking as I haven't seen exactly how it is designed.

Sunbeam

 

[ssobol]

I'll have to look at it again. I did not consider the flange on the outside might limit how low the drain can go. However, from some of the pictures posted, I think it may be possible grind down the outside flange a bit to lower the drain hole without the flange sticking out below the transom edge.

My boat is in storage 'til spring so this will have to wait for a bit.

 

[tcr_pnw]

That's something I hadn't thought about with the "built in" flat cockpit sole; the fact that previous bilge/washdown/fishing water could "re-visit" you at a later date. Like you, I would probably be thinking about how to improve upon that situation.

(I have just the simple "hull" cockpit sole and then removable floorboards, which I can leave out or in as desired.)

I haven't seen exactly how the flat sole is set up (and maybe they are not all the same), but... thinking out loud... there must be a small "drain" hole on the after end of the built up part? And that is how you are getting "bilge" water in there and having it come back out later?

I think unless the design is inherently "perforated" (in other words, water flows freely in and out from various locations on purpose), I would consider sealing it off completely (from day-to-day water) and then doing something like putting in an access plate or plates that would allow you to get in there occasionally to make sure it was dry and/or clean if necessary.

I may be all washed up in that thinking as I haven't seen exactly how it is designed.

Sunbeam

Ahhh…I think I may have confused you. The flat, false floor is sealed. My reference to the "bilge area" is the area between the fuel tanks by the drain plug. That area is recessed by maybe a inch or less and the bilge pump sits there. Just like on the standard floor of a 22, the pump cannot get all the water out. There always seems to remain a half inch that the pump can't get to or is back fed through the discharge lines after the pump stops. I keep my 23 in a slip for 2-3 months during the summer. I'll pull her out every 2-3 weeks for a scrub down. But while she is in the slip, that small amount of water remains. After a day of fishing, the deck is hosed down but some of that way can remain "fishy". Take a cruise the next day and it can slosh around in the cockpit.

My thought was to carve out a section between the tanks, up against the transom (maybe 12"x8") to create a pocket so to speak. I would put pump #1 in that pocket which would collect the water and pump it overboard. Since it would be 3-4 inches deep vs. 1 inch, and smaller, the water level would be higher and the pump could get more out. That way less water would remain onboard and that which stays would be contained in that pocket. My backup, emergency pump would remain on the false floor.

I will try and get some pics up if that doesn't clarify.

Troy

 

[chimoii]

This thread was a good reminder! We leave the boat in the water thought is covered so no rain issues but I had forgotten to sponge out the bilge pump area. The residual water after using the manual switch position to drop the water below the auto level is minimal but a freeze could damage the pump. Since we are having close to record cold in Victoria (and even flurries!) I scampered down to Chimo, sponged out and poured in about a liter of the pink anti-freeze.

Good catch C-Brats!

 

[bridma]

Good call Chimo. I had forgotten to do mine. I went out to the driveway and checked the boat. Water had already froze around the sump pump but not solid yet thank goodness. I took a hair dryer, melted the ice, and sponged out. Poured a couple of cup fulls of the pink RV anti-freeze so it is up the bottom of the drain hole.

Martin.

 

[colobear]

I forgot to do that one year and ended up buying a new bilge pump

 

[Bill K]

All this talk and I hadn't taken my own suggestion. LOL

I just went out and used the wet & dry vacuum to suck up the water in my 22.

Bill Kelleher

 

[Sunbeam]

I'll have to look at it again. I did not consider the flange on the outside might limit how low the drain can go. However, from some of the pictures posted, I think it may be possible grind down the outside flange a bit to lower the drain hole without the flange sticking out below the transom edge.

Yeah, I didn't think about that either at first (when I was noodling the job over from inside the boat). Then I went and checked the transom....

It probably would be possible to grind the flange slightly, if you put the fastener holes in "right-side-up triangle" formation. However - at least on the ones I have looked at - the backside is a sort of "formed" shape with a rim around the edge, and webs, and a more "hollow" area in between. So you would lose the "rim" where you ground it off. You could have your own machined, or do something else custom. Or look into the "oval" flanged dinghy style (they have quite a few at Annapolis Performance Sailing, for example). I decided it wouldn't be worth it for the little gained in my case. Not to mention that I have a radius on the inside, which also would have interfered with the fasteners/washers (I decided to through-fasten mine, but then I removed the transom core there).

 

[Sunbeam]

I'll have to look at it again. I did not consider the flange on the outside might limit how low the drain can go. However, from some of the pictures posted, I think it may be possible grind down the outside flange a bit to lower the drain hole without the flange sticking out below the transom edge.

Yeah, I didn't think about that either at first (when I was noodling the job over from inside the boat). Then I went and checked the transom....

It probably would be possible to grind the flange slightly, if you put the fastener holes in "right-side-up triangle" formation. However - at least on the ones I have looked at - the backside is a sort of "formed" shape with a rim around the edge, and webs, and a more "hollow" area in between. So you would lose the "rim" where you ground it off. You could have your own machined, or do something else custom. Or look into the "oval" flanged dinghy style (they have quite a few at Annapolis Performance Sailing, for example). I decided it wouldn't be worth it for the little gained in my case. Not to mention that I have a radius on the inside, which also would have interfered with the fasteners/washers (I decided to through-fasten mine, but then I removed the transom core there).

I think I may have confused you. The flat, false floor is sealed. My reference to the "bilge area" is the area between the fuel tanks by the drain plug.

Okay, I see what you mean - more like the later 22's with the flat cockpit sole.

My thought was to carve out a section between the tanks, up against the transom (maybe 12"x8") to create a pocket so to speak.

I ended up with something like that as a side-effect of closing out the core in the sump on my boat - although it is still not that deep, and I still get a bit of backwash after the pump cycles. I used a pump that takes 3/4" hose to minimize that. But it doesn't eliminate it. It is further "down" from the main area though (maybe 5/8" deeper than stock).

I would put pump #1 in that pocket which would collect the water and pump it overboard. Since it would be 3-4 inches deep vs. 1 inch, and smaller, the water level would be higher and the pump could get more out.

That would probably work well. You would still end up with water in the sump (backwash from pump), but it would stay contained. I guess you get the extra depth because you can built up the sides to the level of the flat cockpit sole.

My backup, emergency pump would remain on the false floor.

I have set up sailboats like that. A small, nuisance water pump in the bottom of the sump (3/4" hose to minimize backwash), and then a larger, higher capacity, larger-hose "crash pump" mounted higher up that only comes into play when trouble visits.