tough economic times

[Sneaks]

I was just trying to (belatedly) live up to my pledge to stick to providing entertainment value to the site and avoid confusing issues with factual information. But now that I think about it.....

I guess that's why I did that.

Try this look at the economy as a whole:

Once upon a time in a village, a man appeared and announced to the villagers that he would buy monkeys for $10 each. The villagers seeing that there were many monkeys around, went out to the forest, and started catching them.

The man bought thousands at $10 and as supply started to diminish, the villagers stopped their effort. He further announced that he would now buy at $20. This renewed the efforts of the villagers and they started catching monkeys again.

Soon the supply diminished even further and people started going back to their farms. The offer increased to $25 each and the supply of monkeys became so little that it was an effort to even see a monkey, let alone catch it!

The man now announced that he would buy monkeys at $50 ! However, since he had to go to the city on some business, his assistant would n ow buy on behalf of him.

In the absence of the man, the assistant told the villagers. "Look at all these monkeys in the big cage that the man has collected. I will sell them to you at $35 and when the man returns from the city, you can sell them to him for $50 each."

The villagers rounded up with all their savings and bought all the monkeys. Then they never saw the man nor his assistant, only monkeys everywhere!

Now you have a better understanding of how the stock market works.


(Plagiarized elsewhere by Don)

 

[dotnmarty]

Well, I see what you mean. It not easy to have a discussion when one side has the "real facts" as well as "factual information" and the other "rants" and "rails" and "complains". I may be too old to learn, but I can still appreciate good entertainment.

 

[forrest]

Let's call these multi-national corporations what they really are, American companies that have moved offshore to avoid paying taxes and government regulation. Although I don't know why, they and their lobbyists run our government now. Yet when some tinhorn dictator or despotic ruler of some small rouge country defies said multi-national corporation the corporation wants the Marines sent in to kick their a___. That would be OK if they gave the Marines stock in the company and wrote the American taxpayer a check to cover the costs but that is not going to happen. Colluding and fixing prices is also very easy when you're offshore and out of reach of regulation. In business if the costs of raw materials goes up then your profit should go down in a competitive market, not record profits quarter after quarter.
What can we do? I have a few ideas. First don't buy anything made in China and tell the retailer you don't want any Chinese products . Go without or try to find it made in the Americas (North, South, or Central). If not the Americas then Japan, Taiwan, or Europe. What will that do? It will take over one billion consumers out of the market if no-one buys their wares. American companies will bring their factories back to America so young inner city kids will have a job to go to rather than selling drugs on a street corner. Factories south of our border will employ our southern neighbors stemming the illegal immigration to our country. After all you don't want anything made in China, the country that poison our pets and puts lead in our children's toys. Second refuse to speak with anyone named 'George' that speaks with an Indian accent. Tell them you don't understand their words and demand to speak to someone who speaks English. Write a letter to the company you are dealing with and tell them you will no longer do business with them if they continue to export our jobs to India. That will remove another billion consumers/competitors for limited resources. Third go back to nuclear power for electricity and start building electric cars for commuting. Develop hydrogen power with a Manhattan style effort of WW2. Fourth bring the military home and leave the rest of the world alone. We can not afford any more empire building. Why do we still have bases in Germany and Japan? The only way you can make everyone in the world do what you want is to hold a machine gun on each and every one of them. We simply don't have enough young men and women to do that (Islam and Democracy are incompatible, but that's a complete separate topic). Fifth, start electing politicians that truly have America's interests at heart, not that of some lobbyists. I'm sure there are better ideas by educated people but one thing is for sure, global economy means a lower standard of living for the average American and more money for the people at the top (and I don't mean you wealthy CD owners, I mean the boys with the 165' yacht and a CD tender).
It's time Americans start looking after each other and American companies start looking long term instead of short term profit. American companies need to show loyalty to the people who made them what they are and to the country and its ideals who made it possible for them to exist.
Sorry for the rant, it won't happen again.
But it was entertaining.
Forrest

 

[Sea Wolf]

Forrest-

Nice post!

Great ideas defining problems and possible solutions!

I only hope such measures could be taken in unison by the masses in America, and that the economic forces creating the situation are not so powerful as to negate or overwhelm the them.

(Something tells me we are experiencing a great change in world economics that is more powerful than any one nation can control.)

The longer the current negative trends for Americans go on, the harder it will be to return to the America we all knew and loved, even in a modified form.

ON EDIT: I posted the following on the West Marine thread about retail economics that relates to this thread, so thought I'd add it hee.

I grew up with my dad being a Jeweler and watchmaker (repairer) in a small family operation, and know how hard it was to compete with larger stores long before the advent of WalMart and the rest, so I appreciate the position mom and pop stores are in. Their role in sales and service has been the backbone of the retail trade in America for decades.

However, my intuition tells me that the large discount super-stores are a phenomena that are a part of the evolution toward a new American retail system within a new world economy we've been discussing on the "Tough Economic Times" thread.

Times are changing on a world wide scale as many new nations join the industrialized world and enter into world trade. The rise of China typifies this trend as it becomes an industrial giant and floods the world, including the U.S., with products.

Our role in such a new world will have to be different, the force of these developments abroad cannot be stopped by artificial means at our boarders.

Joe.


ON EDIT: I added the following on the West Marine thread that directly relates to the post above so thought I'd add it to the one above.

I grew up with my dad being a Jeweler and watchmaker (repairer) in a small family operation, and know how hard it was to compete with larger stores long before the advent of WalMart and the rest, so I appreciate the position mom and pop stores are in. Their role in sales and service has been the backbone of the retail trade in America for decades.

However, my intuition tells me that the large discount super-stores are a phenomena that are a part of the evolution toward a new American retail system within a new world economy we've been discussing on the "Tough Economic Times" thread.

Times are changing on a world wide scale as many new nations join the industrialized world and enter into world trade. The rise of China typifies this trend as it becomes an industrial giant and floods the world, including the U.S., with products.

Our role in such a new world will have to be different, the force of these developments abroad cannot be stopped by artificial means at our boarders.

Joe. :disgust

 

[dogon dory]

blah, blah, blah....

.... blah, blah...!!!

Sorry for the rant, it won't happen again.
But it was entertaining.

Forrest

(very entertaining)

 

[Larry H]

Let's call these multi-national corporations what they really are, American companies that have moved offshore to avoid paying taxes and government regulation. Although I don't know why, they and their lobbyists run our government now.

This is the key statement here. If a company bails on US and our laws, they should be treated as any other foreign company. Companies based in the USA and following our laws should have preference, and foreign (previously US) companies should NOT be allowed to lobby our legislators.

Voters should tell our elected reps and senators to stop listening to corporate lobbyists and do the job WE pay them for, that is running out country for the benefit of us citizens.

It might be too much to ask for, but if we the voters, vote out senators and reps who keep voting for the foreign corporate agenda, perhaps the congress will get back to actually running our country and stop filling their pockets with corporate money!!

 

[mikeporterinmd]

Thinking that an oil company is anything other than a machine designed to make its shareholders money is entertaining. All public companies bear watching. But an industry that provides the lifeblood of our civilization deserves very close watching indeed. To think that oil companies won't apply a big squeeze is unfathomable and ignores US history. To think that anything other than that is happening now is to ignore US history and simple economic facts. The people in charge can be bought or coerced and there is much money to be made doing so. Therefore, it will happen. "It" is anything that causes money to be made. "It" runs from not policing who is running the tankers carefully to starting a war. "It" has happened, is happening and will happen again unless companies are brought into line.

Smirking doesn't prove your point.

The US toppled countries over freakin' bananas; you do not think oil is a good enough prize?

Mike

 

[dogon dory]

Thinking that an oil company is anything other than a machine designed to make its shareholders money is entertaining. All public companies bear watching. But an industry that provides the lifeblood of our civilization deserves very close watching indeed. To think that oil companies won't apply a big squeeze is unfathomable and ignores US history. To think that anything other than that is happening now is to ignore US history and simple economic facts. The people in charge can be bought or coerced and there is much money to be made doing so. Therefore, it will happen. "It" is anything that causes money to be made. "It" runs from not policing who is running the tankers carefully to starting a war. "It" has happened, is happening and will happen again unless companies are brought into line.

Smirking doesn't prove your point.

The US toppled countries over freakin' bananas; you do not think oil is a good enough prize?

Mike

....

....

... :teeth

 

[Larry H]

I was told by a corporate CEO (Harvard MBA) that the job of a CEO is to cause the companies stock value to rise.

Companies are not in business to produce products for you and me, or to provide services for us, but to make money for their stockholders. The products and services are just the means to creating an increase in their stocks value.

If the corps can cause that value increase by any means other than producing good quality products or services, they will. If those means are illegal, they might do it anyway and try not to get caught. Anyone want to buy some Enron stock!

 

[dogon dory]

I was told by a corporate CEO (Harvard MBA) that the job of a CEO is to cause the companies stock value to rise.

Companies are not in business to produce products for you and me, or to provide services for us, but to make money for their stockholders. The products and services are just the means to creating an increase in their stocks value.

If the corps can cause that value increase by any means other than producing good quality products or services, they will. If those means are illegal, they might do it anyway and try not to get caught. Anyone want to buy some Enron stock!

Would that be like GM financial making way more money than GM makes selling cars? :crook

....Times are changing on a world wide scale as many new nations join the industrialized world and enter into world trade. The rise of China typifies this trend as it becomes an industrial giant and floods the world, including the U.S., with products.

Our role in such a new world will have to be different, the force of these developments abroad cannot be stopped by artificial means at our boarders.

Now we're talking.... :thup

 

[thataway]

Some thoughts about the oil giants: BP, Chevron and Exxon paid from 1.6 to 2.9% dividends last year. The perceived stock value went up 20% on an average for each of these. This may not reflect any real value, since it is what people who "invest" in these stocks are willing to pay for them. In fact they could be worthless. Look at a number of tech stocks which have never paid a dividend, yet go up 100% or more a year!

The investors take a "risk" by buying this stock. At first stock was offered as capital or to buy equiptment or land; thus building the business to make a profit (that is what capitolism is all about).

Most posters on this forum own some of these stocks--because this is what the retirement funds hold to make a profit and be able to pay your retirement--or so that is the way it should be...there are some exceptions in government. But Cal Pers is one of the largest investors--with over 261 billion in investments. 54% of that is in stocks. Of this well over a billion is in Exxon. Now, when our buddy Hugo in Venzuela took over Exxon's holdings did we send in the Marines?

The person who "invests" in Exxon this year, may make 22%--next year he may loose 22%--or more. There is a risk in any stock or "investment".
In fact Exxon does not set the price which oil sells for--as I noted earlier that is a function of a number of factors. I am not "defending" any one company--and the executives who take millions for their services frost me as much as anyone--but I do feel that we have to stand up for capitalism. The alternatives don't hold much interest for me.

 

[ccflyer]

I must have typed in a bad url -
I was looking for the forum that stays away from politics, global warming,
etc and focuses on neat boats made in the Northwest :roll:

 

[Larry H]

cc,

Daddy said as long as we are 'nice' we don't have to have any of those 'rules'.

We are playing 'nice' aren't we?

 

[dotnmarty]

Now, when our buddy Hugo in Venzuela took over Exxon's holdings did we send in the Marines?

perhaps they were otherwise occupied

 

[pcator]

Isn't it funny that when oil was heading down to ten bucks a barrel a few years back that nobody was complaining that the big oil companies were setting the price too low? Why would they do that? Maybe they really liked us then and now we have made them mad.

 

[dogon dory]

I must have typed in a bad url -
I was looking for the forum that stays away from politics, global warming,
etc and focuses on neat boats made in the Northwest :roll:

If the boats were made of recycled paper and were powered by oars.... maybe. :sad But since that's not the case, here's my plan:

 

[mikeporterinmd]

Now, when our buddy Hugo in Venzuela took over Exxon's holdings did we send in the Marines?

perhaps they were otherwise occupied

This is a general comment targeted to the more right wing
flag wavers here, not necessarily those quoted above.

When Columbia and I think Guatamala? didn't play nice with the
banana growers, we did. It would be hard to send in the Marines
into Venezuela. I don't know...maybe not. If we had any to spare.
We pretty much sent them to Iraq when oil was going to flow to China
and not US/UK.

Capitalism is a fine economic system. Where, in any writing describing
it, does it say invading those countries that don't want to give you
favorable terms is part of this system? Where does it describe the
current political machine as a necessary component of the system?

Understand capitalism. And understand its flaws and apply appropriate
pressure so it doesn't kill you. Ask the guy that dissolved in a vat of
acid because the refinery cut costs to the point where the tank fell
apart underneath of him if capitalism can kill you. A little OSHA doesn't
always hurt. Now, don't think I'm a bleeding heart Socialist, either.

I am well aware of the Soviet Union and it's flaws. Comparing the two
systems isn't really the point here. What is the point is the little smug
comments. Either make an intelligent point or stop writing. I've
been listening to this crap for the last six years and the only thing
I have to show for it is I owe god knows how many thousands in
federal debt, and the US future is seriously compromised by all this
foolishness. I'll wave a flag and my flag is on much, much firmer
footing than your flag will ever be.

Mike

P.S.

Company == public company. I do not mean to imply that any privately
managed company behaves in any particular way. That would be up to
the owners.

 

[dogon dory]

I'll wave a flag and my flag is on much, much firmer footing than your flag will ever be.

OK, now I'm confused... which flag was yours ???

This is one of my personal favorites...

 

[flapbreaker]

It's official, the economy has definitely tanked. For proof, I offer my inability to sell a Futon off craigslist. Things are so bad in fact, I don't even get overseas offers from wealthy sheiks seeking my "item". :smilep

 

[mikeporterinmd]

I'll wave a flag and my flag is on much, much firmer footing than your flag will ever be.

OK, now I'm confused... which flag was yours ???

Cheap shot.

The founding fathers site looks interesting.

Mike