tomcat vs other cdorrys for offshore?

Why is a 26' Venture CD "better" than a 22' CD?

Besides the obvious (more interior space for your stuff - beer too - and guests),
the added length gives a "better" ride on a given sea.

On the water, length is ride.

That said, length is not everything.

Aye.
Grandpa* used to say, "There's no perfect boat."

* An old Navy man
 
Regarding your consternation with the Rosborough 246: It is a heavy, seaworthy boat which can be run to the mid teens with moderate levels of power. There are many well-kept used models available. My concern for you is purely your wife's possible inability to tolerate rolling. I do not have direct experience but suspect that boat has a regular rolling motion underway due to its lack of hard chine. This seems to be confirmed by a few youtube videos I've seen of the R-246 in heavy seas. I also love the boat in theory but I hate rolling in a beam sea. A deep-vee hull will also roll a lot in a beam sea. That's why I chose a Stabicraft. I can go safely , economically, and speedily where much larger boats cannot in my homely little aluminum dynamo.

Best, Mike
 
About a month and a half ago we were at Waypoint Marine and had the oppertunity to crawl over The Great Republic, the job on the rebuild and addition of the Armstrong bracket and outboard was top notch. The interior looked a bit dated to me, but clean and functional. But the lack of a dedicated head was a deal breaker for my wife.
 
westward":e780lctc said:
Regarding your consternation with the Rosborough 246: It is a heavy, seaworthy boat which can be run to the mid teens with moderate levels of power. There are many well-kept used models available. My concern for you is purely your wife's possible inability to tolerate rolling. I do not have direct experience but suspect that boat has a regular rolling motion underway due to its lack of hard chine. This seems to be confirmed by a few youtube videos I've seen of the R-246 in heavy seas. I also love the boat in theory but I hate rolling in a beam sea. A deep-vee hull will also roll a lot in a beam sea. That's why I chose a Stabicraft. I can go safely , economically, and speedily where much larger boats cannot in my homely little aluminum dynamo.

Best, Mike
Click to expand...

Okay, so this caught my eye since rolling in a beam sea really bothers my wife. What "design" of boat (under 28 feet) is best at minimizing the rolling?
 
A flat bottom will not roll at much, the down side at speed in chop it will be a rougher ride. Modified V hulls which vary and handle vastly different depending on design offer a compromise. I recommend you test ride whatever you are looking at especially if your wife is sensitive to this - take her with you. Happy wife = Happy life.
 
Lots of opinions and good advice here. I can only offer my experience, having owned both a C-Dory 22 and a 24' Tomcat.

The 22 Cruiser is a great boat. Light, efficient, and very versatile. The Tomcat, however, (in my opinion) is far more suited for offshore conditions- wind waves, swell, etc.
My crew consists of a 5 and 9 year old, my wife and I. Over the last 5 years we have made over 240 trips to catalina and visited every channel island, including San Nic, as well as the Tanner, Osborne, and 43 banks to fish for Tuna. While we loved our 22, and there is a soft spot in our hearts for our beloved CPelican, many of these voyages would simply not have been possible in that vessel due to weather conditions, fuel range, and the comfort of 4 people (especially two small kids).
Below is a video of the recent 10 day trip that we took to 4 different channel islands off of the southern California coast. Could you do the same trip in a 22' Cruiser? of course. I can say that the weather conditions between Santa Cruz and Santa Rosa were quite nautical (6' wind waves at 8 seconds and 20 knts of wind) )and I would have never made the run in our 22' on the days that we spent out there.

https://youtu.be/3-Kiu9BzfQ4

My advice is- get the best boat you can afford to buy and afford to use... and then use it. Get experience behind the helm in all kinds of conditions, respect the power of the sea, and never be too "macho" to call off a trip if the weather is up or makes a turn for the worse.

-TIm
 
If you are really wanting some "V" and space and want to impress the lady with the finer appointments, you might want to take a look at the Cutwater 242 Sport Coupe. Little more space, bigger engine, more speed to get out there 50 miles, a bow thruster so you can dock, and underwater lights so you can .... attract attention.

The "V" will cut through some chop and with a 300 hanging on the transom you can cut through some fuel and make 40 mph. That should shorten the time to get out to the tuna grounds and back. It might be a bit rolley in a seaway though.

http://www.cutwaterboats.com/models.asp ... port+Coupe

It was written up in on of the recent Boating World magazines too.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_070.thumb.jpg
 
Tim another wonderful video--and 10 +++ for taking the kids on all of the adventures. I can assure you that they will remember all of them 45 years from now. If only we had more parents like you two!

I am sure that you only showed the good weather--but I have seen winds of over 55 knots in the upper channel Islands, and no C Dory would do well in those types of conditions. So you do have to pick your days--and be lucky.

Thanks again for a great ride along with you!
 
tim, you've reinforced what so many have said. the T255 on top of my list for the added safety and room to grow. plus, who is really content spending a weekend on the water with a bathroom that's little more than a bed pan :(

mike, i appreciate your take on the RF246. for the 80% of the time 've planned to be in the bay, i'm sure it's still the perfect boat. you're a real hooligan of the sea with that aluminum dynamo of yours. in a perfect world, i'd be looking at a armstrong cat

has anyone ever made a thread on this www.seakeeper.com? they're making a cheaper version for 25s' . . . the way that some guys can spend $$$ on making the perfect fish killing machine, there's got to be some out there where this add-on is a priority?
 
Dr. Bob- thanks for the feedback. I certainly do cut out all video clips of the rough weather. More importantly, I cut out all of the crying, fighting, and complaining that comes along with dragging a couple kids around on adventures like this. I find that if you make a 2 minute video with the highlights from your weekend, you only tend to forget the other parts.

Also, you are certainly correct that the weather can take a SERIOUS turn for the worse at the Channel Islands. On the recent trip we had a southwest wind pop up in the middle of the night, followed by a 3 foot windchop that filled the anchorage. The result was a sleepless night for my wife and I. The kids on the other hand, slept right through it! Every boat in the anchorage, from our 24TC to a 50' yacht beside us, rocked all night and everyone complained about the unforecasted wind and chop.
 
nuccifilms":10kvc6tg said:
has anyone ever made a thread on this www.seakeeper.com? they're making a cheaper version for 25s' . . . the way that some guys can spend $$$ on making the perfect fish killing machine, there's got to be some out there where this add-on is a priority?
Click to expand...

The Seakeeper 3 is the smallest unit currently available and it's not really suited to a C-Dory. The weight and electrical consumption are problematic. 550 pounds, up to 85 amps of 12V power and 33-63 amps continuous power. That's too much weight for a C-Dory and more power than most could spare with relatively small outboard alternators. Plus, there aren't any stringers to mount the thing to.

That said, I was impressed with the roll dampening provided by a Seakeeper 5 in a new Nordic Tug 40. Not so impressed by the need to run a genset all the time, and really not impressed with the 50 minute spool up time or the $50,000 cost once installation was included. Plus I was worried about the failure modes of a very heavy mass spinning at 8000-10,700 RPM in the middle of my boat.

Have you considered chartering/renting a C-Dory or Rosborough to try it out? I think there's a 25 C-Dory in Comox, BC available through Desolation Sound Yacht Charters. Probably could find others elsewhere. Might be a good, relatively inexpensive way to see how one of these boats would work for you.
 
thanks for the tip on the bc charters dauntless. since shifting towards bigger and doubling my investment, i'm pushing my purchase date a year as well. test riding when i'm ready (although, with too much buyer's enthusiasm) may just be a lot easier. i do plan on inquiring at the SD marinas this weekend on any 6 pack charters that have a seat to fill.

i was reading about seakeeper gearing up to roll out a new model for the 17' to 25' market, scaled down, cheaper to buy, less weight and less power to consume. no announcement on their site. putting that on something like a pocket trawler with a deck and inboard diesel to support it. . . may end up a real game-changer for some 25' monohulls?
 
I have owned a Sea Sport 24, and sold it because the ride and pounding in choppy conditions was simply not acceptable to my wife, who is absolutely immune to seasickness, and has literally crossed oceans with me in small vessels.

We replaced the Sea Sport with a Tom Cat after giving one a good seaworthy work out. The lateral stability of the Tom Cat rivals that of the Nordhavn 46 we owned before the Sea Sport. It does not handle short choppy water at low speed well, tends to dig in the bow. At higher speeds it does much better, but even then, it can pitch quite impressively, and would not be considered fun.

The other benefit of the TC is two engines, and (if you arrange it to be so), separate and isolated fuel systems. Whereas the SS had only one Yamaha, and a single fuel supply system.

Running out to Catalina is one thing, but going out another 50 miles offshore even in the Tom Cat, with anything but a pristine 24 hour weather forecast, is something I would be very hesitant to do, and simply would not do with just one engine in the SS.

You spend any time doing this activity, and you discover too many things can go wrong that you cannot predict or control to be out there on a limb like that in such a small vessel. Often, women have a better sense of preservation than us males, and it is wise to pay attention to it.

Kevin W.
Tom Cat 25.5
 
kevin,
i agree whole heartedly, versatility, stability and all you've said. (based on board consensus, and my own needs) and with that, it's kinda looking like the only package beating the T255, is a bigger cat. (again, my own needs) i suspect anyone venturing much past the islands in a 25' is more likely in a deeper V hardcore fishing machine, and that's just not me.
 
We have had TomCat's for 14 years. TC 24 for 2 years and the current TC255 for the past 12 years. We also have had 2 different CD 22's, both a Classic '84 for 13 years and an '06 Angler , for 2 years.

The TomCat is a great offshore boat for any reasonable seas. . We have been out 80 miles south of Cabo San Lucas Tuna fishing. Usually the return trip was in 3' to 5' swells. In a 2' chop I run 20 MPH plus, and skim the top of the waves. The worst conditions are when the wave is 3' and the period is short. Then you crash into the trough just like everybody else.

We once came from Port Roberts to Blaine, Wa in seas that were 10' to 12' swells with most of them breaking or having the tops blown off. Not fun, but the boat can take much more than the crew.

Go for the TomCat!
 
I also have nothing bad to say about the Nordhaven 46, except that it is even harder and MUCH more expensive to trailer than a TC255, and even more expensive in all other respects.
Other than that, we like it a lot.
Happy Trailering!
John
 
thank you brent, your boat list history and weather condition referenced speaks volumes on the feedback i wanted.

i'd did a thread a little earlier on figuring just what i could trailerable from vegas to CA? in that one, it was the CD22 that was the only thing practical. but on this thread, i'd say the same for the T255. i just can't escape it's versatility for some occasional offshore. i guess it's 1 more year of chartering, until i relocate within 20 miles of the landing for an inevitable T255. but as you can see, it's never been far from my sights.
 
nucciflims,

We just returned Friday from a nearly 5000 mile trip towing the TomCat. We towed from central Utah, to Port Severn, Ontario, Canada. We spent 5 weeks on the Trent Severn Canal. We traveled it in both directions, 90 locks. Then returned to Utah with a side trip to Oklahoma City to see an ageing relative.

We have towed the TomCat for at least 60,000 miles. We use Ford diesel trucks, F450 or the current F350. Were on the third set of trailer tires. I stopped in Joliet, IL on the way east on this trip, and bought a new set of Goodyear Endurance tires. The second set were looking a little thin and I didn't want trouble on the road.
 
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