Tomcat vs 25 Cruiser

I'd go two adults up front, two kids on the dinnette. Put each kid in their own sleeping bag and have them sleep head/toe (opposite). The CD-25 I believe has a slightly wider dinnette seat and table, not sure, but mine is definitely wider by about 7-8" beyond the standard CD-25. I can move my cushions towards the isle to utilize the cushion's dead space under the outside walkway (I still owe pictures--sorry). I also lengthened the table by about 7 inches, seats 4 much better now.

On the rest of equipment, I stow the raft/dingy folded up front on the bow. Then I'd downsize to double kayaks and stow both on the roof (or get blow-ups like I have). Get folding bikes and stow them in the cockpit tied to eye bolts.

It can be done and the family really won't mind the closeness when they're in awe of the scenary! I have 3-5 people on most weekend trips (3 days).
 
cdworld--have you looked at the C Ranger 25?--that has the best sleeping arrangements--peroid. Also may be better for the kayaks--especially with custom racks. Yes, one can sleep in any of these arrangements--I spent the years from age 10 to age 18 sleeping in the cockpit of my parent's 26 foot sailboat--and it was fine...but a bit of a pain covering the cockpit, blowing up the air matress etc.

As to other trailers--we had the first Float on Trailer--and it is much better (in my opinion) than at least some of the other trailers. Look at the Thataway Album. So far no launch problems--but I might consider a from of tongue extension for very very shallow ramps. The problem is that the boat has to be over the fenders, so it is about 31" high at the stern off the road--plus 18" to float the boat--or about 4 feet of water at the ramp where the stern sits as you launch.
 
The Tomcats floor between the table and sink is 9 ft long and I think at least 28inchs wide ..you could sleep another person on the floor or go bowling...
if you can afford it ..Go tomCat
The 25 dory is a great boat
BUT there is nothing like a Cat.

Dick
TomCat 255
ShirleyMae
 
CDWorld, We have the TC255 and love the space. We do not have little ones but we do have a large Golden Retriever who frequently joins us in the queen+ berth. Plenty of space. I say give the gals the berth and you take the dinette. That way you are closer to the coffee and can take your wife a cup first thing in the morning. You can put the girls to bed early and stay up to watch a movie or a beautiful sunset of rise early to greet the day without disturbing the young ones.
 
CD World,I'm not sure how closely you follow these threads, but a while back the factory posted some information about a "to be released" boat that looked to maximize trailerability! Something around 28 ft if I remember correctly. You might check with them if this is something you would be interested in. It could be farther out than your wanting to wait also, the itch is easily understood! Good Luck
Mike
 
Here's a couple of links to the discussion of the new C-Dory Venture 29:

CD Venture 29 Line Drawing (and discussion)

New C-Dory Model Update

I'd really suggest you attend on of the C-Brat Get-Togethers with your wife and girls to see all the models and their size/space relationships in relation to your needs. I'd think a C-Dory is going to be very small after the Nordhavn 46.

Enjoy!

Joe. :teeth
 
The Beam on the Venture 29 is 9' 6" and in my opinion this precludes easy trailerablity. Yes, I owned a boat of that beam--and the weight which goes with it. You will need wide load permits (not that hard to get, but in many rural areas, the extra width is a bit difficult). Also with the size boat the truck is going to have to most likely be more than the usual 1 ton (which I pull the Tom Cat with).

In my experience having anyone sleep on the floor of a boat (even the Tom Cat) is not convient. Sleeping in the Cockpit is better--or all girls in the foreward bunk. I also mentioned in the past, that with a fuller cushion in the area where the feet of the navigator sit, there is about 6' 8" of bunk fore and aft--which leaves a decent amount of catty corner or fore and aft sleeping for smaller folks on the mid to stb side of the foreward bunk.
 
cdworld":2sjvi80r said:
fishbob,

is this an unqualified gripe? Are there certain instances where it is a pain or is it always a pain? (steep ramp vs shallow ramp)

thanks for your comments.
Click to expand...
1 - no slicks - there is no place to put them on my trailer.
2 - my gripe relates to my trailer not fitting the boat very well.

The non-gripe part of my comment is that the a cat on a highway legal trailer places the hulls above the wheels instead of down between the wheels as in a mono-hull. This makes the boat sit much higher on the trailer, and means that you have to back much further into the water to launch and retrieve. Short ramps and shallow ramps are problematic.
 
Oh Boy! I can't wait to wade into this one! :teeth

First...unless all of you that have a single engine as the main engine don't have a kicker there isn't twice as much maintenance on the Tom Cat. Almost everyone has two engines on the stern; they just may, or may not, be the same size. At least at our shop the cost difference between servicing a Honda BF135/150 and a kicker or a pair of BF135/150's won't buy a good dinner out.

The catamarans are always going to be a little more difficult to launch and retrieve depending on the ramp. Because the hull sides of the cat don't slope as they do on the monohull and they're built 8.5' wide they have to sit high enough to be over the fenders rather than down between them. All other things being equal the lower the boat is on the trailer (closer to the water at launch time) the easier it is to launch and retrieve so the cats start out at a disadvantage but the trailer design for the TC255 works pretty well.

There is a weight difference in the boats but if anyone finds a 3000# CD25 I'll help them eat it. The last one we weighed on the trailer with full fuel, water, and gear was just a bit over 8,000 pounds. The trailer is around 2,000 pounds so the CD25 was about 6,000 pounds in the water. Subtracting the single BF150, kicker, fuel, water and gear put the hull around 4,200 to 4,500 pounds.

I've not had the opportunity lately to weigh the Tom Cat but we may do that with the one we're currently rigging. The last one I remember was around 5,500 pounds; about 1,000 heavier than the CD25. The final boat is much heavier owning to the twin engines, larger fuel capacity, heavier trailer, etc (I figure around 10,000 pounds).

The Tom Cat is generally a more comfortable boat because it has a lower heave factor; that is, it has more weight for its waterplane area and doesn't react as abruptly. When running in rougher conditions it has less pitching motion that the CD25. Because there are two roll centers in the Tom Cat (one for each hull) it also exhibits much less roll that even a monohull of the same beam.

The Tom Cat can become less comfortable than a CD25 in certain conditions because of its shape. If waves are slapping the underside of the bridgedeck it's not a comfortable situation but this is often alleviated by changing course slightly. At anchor in some conditions this can be difficult and a stern anchor could come in handy.

The Tom Cat has a much wider potential speed range than the C-Dory 25. It's easy to run the TC255 at 30 knots in conditions that would be totally uncomfortable in the CD25 at 20 knots. This is to be expected; it's what the TC255 is designed for and why it has double the horsepower on the stern.

The C-Dory 25 and Tom Cat start out around $15,000 apart for the base hull (they have similar standard equipment). If you choose a BF150 Honda for your main engine on the CD25 then the engines on the TC cost double since there are two of them (less the cost of a kicker in the $3000 range on the CD25). The trailer under the TC255 runs about $3000 more than the trailer under the CD25. The difference is about $40K which, of course, will vary with specific choices. Of course you're buying a bigger boat. The TC255 has equivalent room to most 27-foot monohulls because the motors are on a bracket, because the forward berth is sideways, and because the hull sides don't slope in.

With two kids aboard I'd pick the Tom Cat 255 hand's down if I had a truck/SUV/motorhome that would tow it and the difference in money wasn't an issue. Why? Because it's a better kid's boat and it's a bigger boat giving the family more room (see above). It's a better kid's boat because it's easier to see out of (kids don't have to climb up on everything (including people) to see what's going on and where they're going) and this is helped with the flat running attitude the Tom Cat generally has at cruising speeds. It's a better kid's boat because it's easier for the adults aboard to keep track of the kids because the deck level is the same from the berth to the stern; it's a lot harder for the kids to end up somewhere that you can't see them and they're less likely to take a header coming into the cabin or dashing out to the cockpit.

In addition, the aft cockpit is perfect for a bunkhouse with the addition of a camper canvas enclosure; with screen or "glass". In fact, it's big enough a couple of cots, or a big air mattress would work great. This isn't as good on the CD25 where the motorwell protrudes into the cockpit.

And finally...we're comparing a 25-foot $100,000 Apple with a 27-foot $140,000 Orange; if they both weren't built by C-Dory it's not likely that we'd be comparing them so directly and they really don't deserve to be since they each fill the requirements of the folks that buy them for totally different reasons.

Finally, it's speed that defines a boat the most. It influences every nuance of the design and it shows up on every trip. In my assessment the C-Dory 25 is a 15 to 20 knot cruiser (of course in flat water you can go much faster and in the rough stuff you have to slow; that's also true for the Tom Cat) and the Tom Cat a 25 to 30 knot cruiser. Which speed range appeals to your use and needs more?
 
Les, that deserves to be laminated and distributed. We were frequently asked by observers what the differences were between Wild Blue and Discovery while cruising the Keys. People can see the family resemblence, but they are so different.

Just for some true-life cruising weights, when we weighed our boat on the trailer, it came up 8440 pounds. Less than half a tank of fuel, half a tank of water, and much of the cruising "stuff" still in the bed of the pickup (generator, dinghy & motor, tools, etc). I didn't weigh the trailer sans boat, but estimating the trailer at 2000 pounds, the boat is 6440 before we put a couple hundred pounds of stuff, more fuel & water, and then ourselves onboard.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Wow.... Les, thanks so much for that detailed comparison.

One thing mentioned by Squidslayer ( I think it was him ) echoes loudly in my mind: "...LIKE RIDING A GYROSCOPE." I just love the feeling of that condensed foam passing underneath and the rock solid feel of riding a gyroscope.

John
 
Fishbob, The slicks go over the carpet on the bunks, so they can be added. The disadvantage is that you have to keep the TC chained down until you launch.

I can attest to the difference in trailer costs. I just got the Trailer for my CD 25--it was $4,000. The TC trailer was about $7500. The two trailers were comperable--with disc brakes on both axels and the same winches.

I'll have to see what the weight of the hull of the TC is. We tend to use Aluminum trailers down in Florida--and my CD trailer weight is about 900 lbs--a lot less than the TC trailer (also Alunimum).

The TC 255 is definately more uncomfortable at lower speeds (below planing speeds) than the CD 25. However at rest, the TC 255 is a very stable fishing platform. There is also quite a steep learning curve on handling the TC 255.
 
I posted this a couple monthes ago in a fishing forum
Thought I would add my two cents
I'm sure that "Thataway"will correct any errors in my assessment

Dick
Orinda
"ShirleyMae

Why I picked the Tomcat over other Catamarans

All boats have their good and bad points
It's really hard to find the "Perfect Boat"
A perfect Catamaran is even harder I found out after much research
.
There are basically 3 kinds of Cat hull designs..
Displacement hull
Semi displacement hull
planing hull

At first I was all set on the Aggressive Displacement Hull like a Glacier Bay...no cat can beat these kind of boats for cutting though chop at high speeds

After much soul searching and laying out the most important features I compromised and got a planing cat …the C-Dory Tomcat 255

Here was my must have features” when I looked at all the boats

1) Must be a Catamaran.. for attacking wind waves
2) Twin Engines
3) Pilot house design…. totally enclosed.. lock door behind you
4) Best Fuel mileage MPG
5) Fast
6) Stable platform when drifting in bad seas
7) Good handling in beam seas
8) Good handling in following seas
9) Reasonable price
10) Local dealership for sales and service (C-Dory) Outboard Motor Shop ..Oakland)
11) Livewell

I really wanted a displacement Cat …like a Glacier Bay because these type of aggressive hull cats blast thru waves like no other but
I decided against the Glacier Bay because when I test rode one and did A LOT of research it was weak or was compromised in items #3 thru #8

When I rode in a Glacier Bay 2680 I really loved the boat …well made wave puncher
But I did not like the following:

1) the cabin layout.. no pilothouse …toilet next to queen bed??mama said NO! No door to lock out weather
2) Speed was ok but not great
3) When drifting in seas the boat had an uncomfortable yo yo bobbing motion because of its sharp hull design
4) In big following seas I had read from numerous sources that the boat was hard to handle
5) had read from numerous sources that the boat was hard to handle in beam seas

6) did not plane so fuel MPG was lower

7) Higher profile hull made it rock more…had read online about one overloaded Glacier Bay rolling over in Beam Seas!

So… to each his own
I think that Glacier Bay Boat is a great boat
No boat has everything you want it to do however

So I compromised some wave slicing ability for….. comfort ,layout ,speed, MPG, and overall handling. So what?
I can run full tilt into 3 ft WWaves
A displacement cat can run full tilt into 4ft Wwaves

If you want to take a Video test drive and get all the specs about the C-Dory Tomcat 255 Catamaran go this Boat Test Link…its really neat

http://www.boattest.com/boats/1106/overview.aspx

Tight Lines
Dick E
Orinda,Ca
 
I agree with Dick in his comparison with Glacier bay--but with a couple of additions. There is a Glacier Bay which does have a pilot house the 2690--it has a smaller dinette and smaller galley than the Tom Cat, plus the head is next to the bunk (which my wife didn't like)--and the head, bunk is down a flight of steps.

When you learn how to drive the Tom Cat--it definately out performs most comperable sized monohulls.

The other thing to remember that the "test" runs don't realistically cover the mileage. These test boats are abnormally light--and I don't know of any of the Tom Cats which get 3 miles a gallon. The draft is given at 13"--we find that realistically the draft is closer to 17". However, the realistic mileage is excellent--and we are getting almost 50% better than a slightly bigger express cruiser with an I/O--same HP was getting.
 
This really is not a "versus" comparison. I am glad for the people who have purchased and enjoy their TC255s. They paid a lot more and got what they paid for, mainly, the ability to go considerably faster than a CD25. Plus a larger berth and more storage. They paid more to acquire the boat, and will pay more to own and operate it. Les, and others, have pretty accurately captured the differences - everyone has to decide for themselves which boat they want based on what is important to them.
 
Pat,

Is this a call for the jury to meet? JJ

Acutally, you all have summed it up well.

I think proposed usage is the key here. e.g., for Gulf fishing, you have to be able to get out 10-60 miles fast thru 2-4 foot seas, and then back. The distances are much further than Puget Sound, Gulf Island cruising. The water is much shallower, and safe havens (bays) are maybe 80-100 miles apart. Without speed, you'd get caught in alot of bad weather.

The San Juans and Puget Sound have rough seas, but many nearby places to duck out of the weather. Cruising at 9-18 knots is no problem up there.


The Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas and Missouri Lakes can be huge with rapidly changing, high speed winds, and lots of shallows to pump up the water. Thunderstorms with 60+ mph winds can pop up out of nowhere. Grand lake, OK has 1350 miles of shoreline, and is about 70 mile long. You've got to be able to speed up to get out of trouble. Beaver Lake, AR, and Lake Texoma, TX, have great striper fishing, but you have to stay out all nite, or get up early and haul oats to get to where the fish are in time. Gulf Coast fishing, you've got to make it to a bait ball before it's all eaten.

So, the TomCat is almost a necessity for these things.

John

John
 
Or....if you cannot outrun the storms--which even the Tom Cat cannot do in many instances--which boat will do better in the heavy waves with the seas from the squalls? If caught out in some really rough stuff, I would rather be in the CD 25 (I'll know a lot better shortly--since I am 500 miles from the Frequent Sea. But my comparison is based on the CD 22 and some rough weather. The reason is that it is too rough to get up on a plane, the TC 255 will slam when bucking into the seas.

Both are great boats.
 
All boats SLAM in BIG short interval wind waves ....they ALL have to slow down....the difference in a TomCat is that it is more of sound slam rather than a bone jarring.. teeth ratting slam like in a monohull...planing does not stop slaming...except in the tomcat.
.my 5 years experience fishing on my friends 10000lb 27ft ORCA Monohull in rough seas was so painfull and uncomfortable from slaming and rocking I vowed my dream boat had to be a cat....so far the dream has come true.

Dick
 
Tacking, both into and with the waves, seems to alleviate what you refer to as "slam", I think. Of course, the dead flat belly of the TomCat is going to get a wave slap if you drive it slowly straight into waves.

All in all.... I love it... John
 
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