Tomcat 255 vs Skagit Orca 27XLC

C

Cfoster

New member
Hello everybody,
Can anyone tell me if Triton is still building the Skagit Orca 27 XLC? If so how would it compare in ride quality and price to a Tomcat 255. I realize I'm talking about monohull vs catamaran but the idea of one 300HP outboard (Skagit) as opposed to 2-150HP outboards (Tomcat) appeals to me. Their dry weights both come in ~6000 lbs. I currently have a Grady White so I'm accustomed to the deep V hull and ride. My future goal is to have a Great Loop boat so fuel economy differences between the two are a consideration. The cockpit of the 27 XLC is ~23 sq ft bigger which is a plus. I have had limited success getting the factory to respond to my inquiries so I'm really hoping that some members of the C-Brat nation can help me with this. I also see very few postings on C-Brats re: Skagit Orca boats but I thought it was worth a try. Thank you in advance for any and all comments and suggestions. Also chime in with any comments or experience you may have with Evinrude E-Tecs.
 
I haven't ridden in a Skagit Orca so I don't know much about the ride. I have been on the Orca at boat shows so I'm familiar with the boat and it's layout. I do have a Tomcat so I can comment on the ride of a Tomcat. I can also comment on the relative amount of room. I believe Triton is still making the boat, if they have a buyer. Right now, most boat makers are doing boats only when there's an order.

The Tomcat ride is quite nice in chop up to about 2.5-3'. After that you need to slow down a bit. I would expect that the Tomcat will get somewhat better mileage than the 27 Orca especially in the 25-30kt speed range where the Tomcat will get about 2NMPG, maybe 2.2NMPG. The cockpit on the Tomcat is plenty large for 4 fishing and the bracket is a nice place to store a reasonable size cooler. Of course, you can get the Orca with outboards on a bracket too.

Pluses for the Tomcat:
1) Probably 10-20% better gas mileage but I'm guessing not a lot more.
2) HUGE berth for sleeping (larger than a queen size bed).
3) Lots of storage space in the sponsons.
4) Race-car-like flat handling in turns.

Pluses for the Orca
1) Larger dining table which when converted to a berth will actually sleep 2 (but it's still tight). The tomcat berth in that location is really a one person berth.
2) Better design on the fish boxes. The fish boxes on the Orca have wider rims around them and "gutters" that drain to the scuppers. The Tomcat boxes have narrow rims with no drainage. I've solved that with holes in the rims to the bilge area but still it would be better if the boxes were properly designed.
3) Somewhat larger cockpit but frankly I don't think that matters much in practice.

Both are great boats. I'd say that the Orca is probably a little better fishing machine and the Tomcat is a little better cruiser but in either boat, you don't compromise much in the fish vs cruise choice - e.g. both are excellent fishing AND cruising boats. If you come out to Seattle some time, I'll make sure you get out on a Tomcat.
 
Thanks Roger. Those are all great comments. Do you have any feel for the price differential between the two? I appreciate your offer for a ride if I ever get out to Seattle. I think I will probably have to come out to the factory sometime before I could adequately make a decision, but right now I'm just trying to do some preliminary research which Triton doesn't make all that easy. They seem to make excellent boats but are a little short on marketing skills. Their website provides very few details and seems to be a hang over from the previous owners. Thanks for all your help and keep it coming!
 
I've been on the TomCat, but never on the Orca. There is a 27XLC at my marina, though, and it looks like a great boat. It's big and substantially built. The one I've seen has a pair of 200hp Suzuki's, and they "look" right; I'm not sure if the single 300 would be ideal for a boat heavily loaded for fishing or cruising.

The TomCat is fast, stable, and smooth riding in moderate sea conditions. I imagine the performance of the Orca is similar, but it might give a better ride in 3+ foot seas. I don't know what size Grady you have, but I think the performance characteristics of the Orca are similar to a comparably sized Grady.

Most of my neighbors have Grady's in the ~24 foot size range. They are great boats, but I regularly come and go from our cabin when they stay tied to the dock. They are constantly amazed at the conditions I'll go out in (this has more to do with the individuals than the boats, I think) and how far from home I'll stray. The finish quality of the C-Dory's/TomCats (not sure about the Orca) are not up to Grady standards, but they are extremely capable, safe, and practical boats.

Triton also builds Sea Sports and Ospreys, which are worth looking at and have similar characteristics and designs to the Orca.
 
Triton marine is also back to making the sea sport. I would look into a 28 commander with a diesel. I like diesels over large out boards after a boat reaches a certain size. The 28 has a flat floor with out the hump the smaller sea sports do for the engine. Lots and lots of Deck space as well as a comfortable cabin for cruising. just idea you should look at.
 
We had a Grady 25 for many years on the East coast and loved it (2 x 150 Yamaha's). Have been on a test drive in an Orca in about 3 - 4 ft chop and it seems to handle pretty much the same as the Grady. A test drive in a tomcat under the same conditions gave the result that Roger noted, very stable with flat turns.

Beyond 3 - 4 ft the deep V will certainly do better for a while but there comes a point where they both slow down. I can't speak for the Tomcat but we have had the Grady in some big seas and could still make 12-15 Kts. and that was a personal preference not a boat limitation :shock:

Best would be to get a test drive in both on the same day.

M
 
Thanks Grumpy. It really is hard to beat the Grady White ride in rough water. I think you're suggestion of back to back sea trials is a great suggestion. As a great loop boat stability at rest, not speed, is going to be a big consideration as well as fuel economy. The catamaran should certainly roll less at rest than a deep vee. The fuel economy advantage I'm not sure about. The Aspen asymetrical catamaran in very intriguing. I'm just not sure it's in my price range as it would be $200-250K ready to go. Thanks for your comments and keep them coming!
 
I'm a relatively new TomCat owner, having taken delivery of mine a year ago. Since then I've cruised the Chesapeake Bay, Lake Champlain and from the Florida Keys to Jacksonville. Having run monohulls all my life, there is a lot to get used to with a TomCat. She's a great boat in anything less than 3-foot, shortly spaced seas. Best of all, she is so much more stable than a monohull, especially when at rest or trolling. But because the transom between the hulls is in the water when at rest or off plane, there is no space for even the smallest waves to escape. Consequently, she "slams" loudly when heading directly into even 1-foot seas. Once you get her on plane (about 18-knots) she behaves beautifully on all points of sail up to 3-foot seas. At this speed, the transom is out of the water, and the hulls are riding partially on an air cushion. The ride actually gets better as the speed increases. It's best to fall off a few degrees if possible to avoid going directly into the seas. I've also found that there is no "middle ground" in speeds. It's either 18-knots or more or 6.5 knots. Slowing down to 10-knots or so just wastes fuel. I get about 2 nm/gallon at 20-25 knots.

So, now that I've learned the TomCat's characteristics, I'm thoroughly enjoying cruising and fishing on her. When conditions allow, running at 25 knots gives us a lot of options. I also feel extremely safe, especially after a harrowing experience trying to get out of Lake Worth Inlet recently on a windy day. We followed an 80-footer out and about a third of the way saw the large yacht suddenly run into 6-8 foot square walls of water. It was too late for us to turn around so we continued out at about 5-knots until we reached the sea buoy, where we discovered conditions were too severe to run up the coast. (The forecast was extremely inaccurate.) We timed our turn and headed back through the inlet with white knuckles on the helm, allowing the following seas to run past us. The TomCat tracked beautifully, never threatening to broach. Her stability and quick helm were very reassuring, and we safely returned to the ICW to run inside. This experience has given me great confidence in the TomCat's capability, but not weather forecasting. I'm not sure I would have felt any safer in my 43-foot monohull boat.
 
Cfoster:

You said you have a Grady White, but really didn't say where or how you plan to use the new boat (ocean/inland lakes) in the mean time before the Great Loop trip. Where will you do so? Are you going to be mostly fishing until then?

You're in Kentucky. Will you trail the boat a lot? Are the boats the same width? Does either/any of them require special permits?

How about cockpit requirements? Do you need an exceptionally large cockpit? Do you need to enclose it in any special way? Will you need to add cabin A/C? Is it equally easy to do on the different boats?

If I remember right, the Skagit Orca boats were of much better fit and finish than the C-Dorys. This was immediately evident at The Seattle Boat Show several years back when everything was in full production with the previous manufacturer. Does this matter to you or your wife?

Does your First Mate have special considerations for the interior, such as sleeping space, galley requirements or layout, or head/shower preferences?

How about the cockpit/cabin height differences? Some of the boats in the Skagit-Orca line had big step up/downs in them, while the CD-255 is on the same level through out, if I remember correctly. Does this matter now, or later? We all get older. I'm glad I don't have a two story house anymore!

How concerned are you with the residual resale value later? How long with you keep the boat? Will it meet your needs after the Great Loop trip? How does the resale value of the different boats compare over the years?

Do you need a boat that will be efficient at trawler speeds as the price of fuel continues to rise? Which boat will do that better and/or have a greater range of useful efficient speeds?

Sorry to have more questions than answers, but I do find this an interesting topic!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
George,
Thanks for your input. I was hoping you would see this as I have followed your downsizing with great interest in Soundings and read about your recent cruise on Lake Champlain. I am concerned about the tunnel being below the waterline when the boat is not on plane. Do you know if that is the case with other cats like Aspen, World Cat, Glacier Bay etc? I also wonder about how much a Tomcat would "sneeze" because of the low tunnel profile. There are many positives I think I would love about a cat, but like many I'm still having the cat vs mono debate in my head.
 
If you do a search on the word "sneeze" in the "Search the C-Brats" box in the upper left, you'll find a number of threads on this issue including several that compare the Tomcat to other boats (both other cats and monohulls).

Many of your questions will be answered in these previous threads.
 
Don't post often, but must comment on this. I've owned both, although my TC was a 24. Both are great boats but totally different in the way they ride and handle heavy water. Bottom line is how the boat will be used. The admirable prefers the TC because of the stability, and if I bought another boat that size it would be the TC. BUT how the boat will be used is the key to the decision. I fish (and hope) a lot and run to BC in open water where 40 knot winds are common. Both boats must slow down in those conditions, and with 100+ NM to go, the TC is my choice. But only a fish fanatic would do that! (aka idiot).

Dusty
 
Cfoster":3otpfaxv said:
George,
Thanks for your input. I was hoping you would see this as I have followed your downsizing with great interest in Soundings and read about your recent cruise on Lake Champlain. I am concerned about the tunnel being below the waterline when the boat is not on plane. Do you know if that is the case with other cats like Aspen, World Cat, Glacier Bay etc? I also wonder about how much a Tomcat would "sneeze" because of the low tunnel profile. There are many positives I think I would love about a cat, but like many I'm still having the cat vs mono debate in my head.
Click to expand...

The low tunnel is a design flaw with the Tomcat. At rest in chop it is very stable but it will slap. (If spending the night you need to find a calm spot). The other cat's you reference are displacement or semi-displacement cats with higher tunnel clearances. I believe they would offer superior rides with headwind seas based on that design (I have not cruised on them). They are all more spartan, offer less cruising comforts, and I suspect would not offer 2nm/g at 22 knots as can be achieved with the Tomcat.

When on plane in seas <3' seas the air cushion is better than any mono-hull of the same size in my opinion - in fact after the Tomcat I will never again own a planing mono-hull. The air cushion really changes the ride experience dramatically.

As you know all boats are a compromise, there is not a perfect design for everything. The Tomcat really excels in terms of space, speed, soft ride if <3' seas, and stable platform. I have cruised >2000 nautical miles on Napoleon (only ocean) and I don't regret the purchase at all.

I considered an Orca 24 when I was shopping. I liked the fit and finish but it did not offer enough space for my taste. I am not familiar with the Orca 27.

Good luck with your research.
 
This discussion brings up a related question:

Considering the "slam" problem in the tunnel, wouldn't the TomCat 255 benefit from a third smaller hull member or "nacelle" up front,
starting a bit further back, and maybe going halfway to 2/3 rds the way back or so to help "split" the waves and cause less slamming at speed and at rest?

It would also help form a mixed air/water cushion for the ride, though adding some drag.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Capt. Matt,
Thanks for your honest, real world input. Are the Tomcats still made with the low tunnel or have they corrected it? If they haven't they must not perceive it to be a problem. Also you are right about the Aspen, it is a displacement hull never meant to plane, but I thought the World Cats & Glacier Bays were planing hulls. Also the Aspen is actually quite bit more luxurious than the Tomcat, has a single 150 HP inboard diesel in the right sponson, and costs a lot more than the Tomcat. I am encouraged by your comments and how many miles you have logged on your Tomcat. The Orca 27 XLC is just a stretched version of the 24 XLC you looked at and weighs ~ 500lbs more and has 68 sq ft of cockpit space as opposed to 48 with the 24 XLC. Otherwise they appear to be identical. I am concerned about previous comments that there is no in between speed with a Tomcat in that it's either displacement speed of 5-6 kts or on plane at 16-18 kts. Obviously as a Great Loop boat top end is not as big a consideration as slow cruising in the ICW, the canal system, and the Western Rivers. Thanks for your help and let me know if you think of anything else that you think I should know.
 
Sea Wolf,
Thank you so much for your comments and let me answer the questions you raise. My current Grady is a Tournament 225 dual console w/ a 250HP Yamaha TXR mounted on a Gill bracket. I use it primarily @ Lake Cumberland in south central Ky and on the Ohio River here in Louisville. I hope to be able to keep it when I purchase the new boat. I will use the new boat on the same bodies of water for cruising and overnighting before embarking on the loop from Louisville. The Skagit Orca and the Tomcat both have 8'6" beams so no special permits required and they will live on the trailer as I do not own a slip at either location. A larger cockpit to me is always better as it is the social area when anchored. I would probably want to AC either one and it looks like the roof mount units have worked well on either. With the exception of the Tomcat having a larger "queen berth", the interior layouts on the two boats are very similar. As far as the First mate is concerned it will be a matter of which boat she prefers the looks of. The technical aspects are my responsibility. As for resale, I tend to keep my boats a long time but resale is always important whenever that day comes. Fuel economy is also a very important consideration as the loop is a long way around. There are many parts of it that can only be done @ trawler speeds but I want at least the ability to run @ 20kts to be able to outrun any trouble I may get into. As everyone has said, every boat is a compromise. I'm just trying to get a handle on what the best compromise might be. I really appreciate all of your help and thought provoking comments. One more comment, from all the research I have done I would probably want Triton to factory install an Airhead toilet on any boat I bought. Pump outs and holding tanks hold little appeal to me over the long run.
 
Both World Cat and Glacier bay are displacement/semi displacement cats. The Tom Cat is a true planing cat. The WC and GB both have adequate tunnel clearance (or they would not run well!).

Sneeze is has never been a problem for me in the Tom Cat. It was in the Glacier Bay--because of the cabin accommodations we did not even sea trail the World Cat.

I would also ask who, if anyone, is building the Skagit Orca currently? I hear rumors that there have been some changes in who is producing both the C Dory, Tom Cats and Sea Sport.

As for the Tom Cat--I have long felt that the tunnel clearance is too low aft. That is the hulls are not deep enough. If I was younger, I would commission a boat similar to the C Dory Tom Cat, with 6" deeper hulls. I believe that this would give a much better ride, and also better fuel efficiency at lower speeds.

I have to disagree with G. Sass slightly--and my disagreement may be made on the basis of the way my boat was rigged. That is with twin Suzuki 150's and 21 (as I recollect)" pitch prop--16" diameter, plus the Permatrims. I could get the boat on a plane as low as 12 knots--some claim slightly lower. However, it was not efficient until we got up to about 15 knots. The Permatrims, and specific 4 blade props do give more stern lift--and thus a lower speed to get on a plane. I do agree that the boat rides better at 18 or so knots. I cruised at about 22 to 25 knots most of the time and as high as 35 knots cruising speed.

If I was going to be doing cruising--I would choose the Tom Cat--and then pick my days because of the room and layout of the cabin. Going into steep seas more that 3' feet was not comfortable. Once you cracked off, or sent beam /stern to seas the Tom Cat handled it fine....Better than the Glacier Bay did. Into chop up to 3 feet only the Regulator or Contender seemed to have an equal ride.
 
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