TOM CAT PROBLEMS FROM OWNER

J

jimmydj

New member
first let me say the tom cat is fantastic.

c- dory factory builds a great boat. (factory)

wefings marine has been great. (dealer)

my problem is with honda usa.

how would you like to take delivery on oct. 14th 2006?

then next day in order to register boat in state of texas have all documents as certificate of orgin.

however you are advised from honda that one of the engines documents were incorrect and we have to get from japan.

at this point i will not be legal and also face fines if on water.

to this day 12-17-06 i have no documents from honda.


also penalty for state sales tax beyond 20 day max of delivery.

800.00.

thanks for any advice.
jim
 
Uh, didn't you buy that boat/motor from a dealer? Who gave you the title to all that? I'd contact him and let him take care of it. You bought that motor in good faith, and shouldn't get stuck with the problem or fines. If he says no, go to the state registration office and file a complaint; if you want to be a nice guy, file it against Honda.

Boris
 
To clarify , we have been working to get the correct MSO since delivery . We were sent an incorrect replacement already . Maybe the third one will be correct . Honda has made a simple thing very difficult .Jim , It will be resolved .
Marc
 
Use the Dealers registration plate until yours is complete. That will get you on the water until you get the correct papers, or a new engine that has the correct papers. I agree with the above, the fines should go against the Dealer and the Honda.
 
"New Sales Contract": Dated today, leving the Hondas off this contract., and new contract has a kicker motor with good papers on it. Kicker never leaves the shop.

Yes lady in tennis shoes at the Judge Probate office in TXs. I only have a kicker on this boat. It is a catamaran and I am going to put a sail on it. I just need a kicker.

Bingo. You do not pay sales taxes on two 150 hp Hondas "shipped" to TXs when the paper work gets there an a single sales receipt.

You get boat numbers... and save the tax dollars on 150 twins, then, find a better deal on a local kicker, and Wefings pays full refund on kickers to to make pissed of TX guy happy.

Yall can figer this out.
 
Lots of arm chair boat dealers !Byrdman wins the most complex solution prize ! The dealership has no control over what we recieve for paperwork from C Dory and C Dory has no control over what they recieve from Honda . All we can do is try to correct it through the channels we are provided .And we are. Its that simple .I seriously doubt that a Marine Patrol or DNR person [ or whatever they are called in your state ] would fail to understand the situation and actually write a ticket .We could ship a set of dealer numbers [ they would be Florida ] to Jim .That would attract attention! But really , Honda needs to get the correct MSO !
 
Hey Marc... You need some cheese with that wine Brother? Being another out of state boat buyer....who learned a bit slow on how to save some $$.. I just could not send that in.

And.. you are right... we do not need any more attention to our boats while out there enjoying life out of the trafic of the roads... :mrgreen: :beer
 
Byrdman ought to know that a dealer can't remedy a legal documentation matter by doing something illegal, (love ya brother!). As Marc has pointed out, this is a multi-pronged challenge that has been faced HEAD-ON here at the dealership level since the first day Jim's boat arrived here in Florida. I know this because it was me as the salesperson on the deal that found the mistake in the first place. For the life of me I can't understand why an international corporation like Honda can't fix this a whole lot more expeditiously. Nor can I understand why the folks at C-Dory didn't catch the "Glitch" when they reassigned the incorrect MSO to Wefing's.

It would be great if we could put Florida Dealer Numbers on Jim's boat until the issue is resolved, but that is just as illegal...probably more-so so that's not a viable interim fix.

Jim, let me personally apologize for this taking so long. When we get the corrected MSO from Honda via C-Dory I will produce another Buyer's order with a current date so you can take THAT in with you to register the motor. Hopefully there will be a different person at the TX title office that doesn't recognize you and the difficulties you've encountered. Whatever the machinations required to make this situation work for you it's better than if we had robbed you of the enjoyment of your boat to this point in time by refusing to deliver it to you until the correct MSO arrived from Honda.

Thanks to all the "Brats" for their constructive input. If it were any place but Texas this would be a non-issue as Texas is the only state that registers outboards separately from the vessel.

Charlie Holtom, Sales and Finance Specialist,
Wefing's Marine, Inc.
 
Jimmy dj - Sorry to hear about your title/engine paperwork problems. I have been wrangling that problem also with the boat in Seattle and the registration in Oklahoma. I am thinking maybe you could go ahead and pay the sales/excise taxes on the hull and motor for which you have the proper papers. I paid the Oklahoma excise tax up front.

However, it does seem to me that you really do not have a genuine purchase completed until the proper paperwork has been done, whether by Honda, C-Dory , or the Dealer. As such, I don't think it would be illegal for the dealer to simply supercede your original, incomplete (engine origin statement), sales contract with a new sales contract dated the day in which they could provide the proper Honda paperwork. Maybe Wefings could just include such information in a short affadavit? Maybe Pat, the lawyer could chime in on this.

In Kansas, we don't pay the sales tax until the boat is registered, so no 20 day thing. I don't think any normal judge or local sales tax controller can fault you for not registering a boat or motor the ownership of which has not yet been properly transferred to you. Maybe you could start registering one engine and the boat?

My title company put together a little "book" showing the taxes paid and the registration applications as well as the motor origin papers to show anyone who stops me on the water until Oklahoma finishes it's paperwork.
Trinity Title says it usually takes over 30 days to get a new title, esp. with imported engines.

Basically a sale involves the representation of 'usability' and cannot be considered complete until the sold item is 'usable' in the simplest concept.
I don't think a judge would give you or Wefing's a hard time over re-doing the sales papers AT THE EARLIEST TIME AT WHICH THE SOLD PRODUCT IS USABLE TO YOU, THE BUYER. To me, that would be the earliest time at which you got the entire package of accurate paperwork to enable you to use the product as intended without suffering penalties, or use
prohibitions. Ditto for the requirement for PROOF OF OWNERSHIP. You cannot be required to pay for something that the state says you don't own due to the lack of Statement of Origin.


John
 
OK... Dr. John does say it better... and from the looks of some other post/links, I bet C-Dory has some good lawyers who could answer this with a "national" prospective. :mrgreen:

Charlie... Go comb your hair, then go wake up Buzz and Lee and the rest of the gang down there. I need to know how much cheese to bring down next trip :xnaughty :xnaughty

Might need to borrow one of Jeff's Honda gensets to run an icebox. :mrgreen:
 
At this point I would consider making an appointment with the person who is in charge of the local district registration office--or even the state official--since you are in the Capital. Take all documentation to this person and explain the situation. I'll bet that there will be no fines or extra fees. I have found that dealing with lower level bureacrats can be very frustrating--but at some point there is a person who will give a dispensation--and that you will be OK.

Too bad this happens--but it does--and I have had it happen on inflatables. The person who is in charge of our district tag office took care of the issues--when I presented the papers and documented the problem.
 
Bob is probably right about that... the lower level ppl at the tax office usually just have to follow the rules, and your case does not seem to fit the usual rules.

Good luck! John
 
to all mates,

thank you for the quick attention on this subject.
all the advise i received fit together very well.

having been able to talk to a tax specialist at the texas comptrollers office and asked about a new contract bill of sale.

advised this will fly, mainly the serial numbers are fed requirement and i now own the wrong engine. (import certificate of orgin japan)

and the other part i was dealing with was the tc had no serial numbers attached.
there is some law (fed.) 1975 that they are attached to boat. none found.

factory has sent me the numbers and ok that section.

wefings in fl. are trying very hard to make this happen.


thanks again for all the help from all on this forum.

jim
 
WOW... I always thought that was one of the coolest things on a boat is the indented section on the stearn with the numbers stamped in. Don't know why this has always been neat to me... it just has. Kinda like ...yea, this baby is mine.

Byrdman
 
Byrdman":36gnid3g said:
WOW... I always thought that was one of the coolest things on a boat is the indented section on the stearn with the numbers stamped in. Don't know why this has always been neat to me... it just has. Kinda like ...yea, this baby is mine.

Byrdman
Click to expand...

Mine are on an AL plate that *was* glued on to the transom. Gotta fix
that some time. At least they fell off into the surveyor's hands, and
not the water...

Mike
 
There are two sets of numbers on the Tom Cat 255. One set in engraved in the transom on the stb side. The other set are on a plaque set under the "eyebrow" over the opening window. These are on an aluminum plaque and a bit difficult to see.

All boats are required to have two sets of numbers--one "hidden" the other on the transom in an area easily seen.
 
factory advised same.

had 3 people look and flashlight at night.

never found.

factory has sent me th numbers to attach.

problem solved
thanks
jim
 
Jim – if it was me, I would not worry about it and just go out and enjoy my boat. Let the dealer and C-Dory fix the problems. Your chances of being stopped are next to nil unless you bring attention to yourself. If you are checked or fined when you register the engine, let the dealer or C-Dory take care of it. This is just my perspective of it, it just seems you are worrying un-necessarily and making a mountain out of a mole hill.
________
Dave dlt.gif
 
We have asked Honda to write a letter explaining their inability to produce a correct MSO . They are astoundingly difficult to deal with on this issue .
Marc
 
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