Tire update and on to chartplotters

T

tparrent

New member
I took the 22 into Discount Tire to get new tires. The service manager explained there were a couple different options. I tuned out until he was done explaining and then asked which ones I should get. He told me and 15 minutes later I had new rubber meeting the road. Some things don't need over analysis. They are round, black, full of air and less than six months old (radial, load E if you must know).

It's been a very long time since I towed the boat with my Frontier. While I certainly felt the boat back there, the truck is certainly up to the challenge. In fact, when I bought the boat, I trailered it from Green Bay through the U.P. of Michigan and back to Raleigh through the West Virginia mountains without a problem. A larger truck would be nice but not necessary. I will replace the 67,000 mile old brakes on the truck before my next road trip. They seem fine but new brakes seem prudent with the boat back there.

My Garmin GPSmap498 quit working since the last time I had the boat out. It simply won't power up. All the other electrical stuff works on the boat and I checked all the fuses, even replacing the little in-line tube fuse for the GPS even though it looked ok. I am having some other work done next week and I'll have the techs take a look.

If the chartplotter is kaput, what would you replace it with? I could simply use an iPad with Navionics installed except that my depth sounder was connected to the Garmin and I do want a sounder although it does not have to be integrated with the charts.

I used to be in the "there's never too much redundancy" camp but I've since moved to the "simple is good" camp. My backup is paper charts combined with a compass and binoculars. I don't fish, don't care a great deal about the difference between speed over ground and speed through the water so I really only need depth information.

My VHF is also acting funny, emitting loud noises regardless off where I set the squelch. It's almost like and alarm noise.

Today's weather was glorious and the weekend promises to be even better so it is VERY tempting to burn that old gas right through the engine - but I won't do that. Unbelievably, the local boat shop told me they could pump out the old stuff on Tuesday. I can wait that long.

Of course, out of the blue, my ten year old son asked tonight if we could go boating tomorrow. No way I'm going to pass that up so I will rent a pontoon boat for some exploring. Then he asked if we could go camping. Don't have to ask twice! 75 during the day and 47 at night. It will be chilly but not unbearable.
 
For starters do you want lake charts, coastal marine or both? I think that the echo map series by Garmin is a good value. The 7" allows a good selection of split screen, with enough real estate for looking at the chart and still have a decent sounder.

Also look for series which may be changing, upgraded or perhaps replaced. For example I scored a Garmin 94 DV, with all coastal charts, Chrip, downVu, Side Vu and standard sonar (he wants to fish for a really good price. It was that for only a day or so--so keep your eyes open for sales. The Echomap series are excellent.

I mention Garmin, because I believe that they are the easiest to use. Good support, and you can add Lake or Coastal via chip later.

If you want Radar, Down scan etc--then a different model...Also some of the "reconditioned"--often are ones which someone could not figure out how to work and are still new...
 
I've had good luck with Lowrance. An HDS-2 shows the radar and charting, with a radar overlay. The overlay requires the use of a Point 1 GPS Antenna, connected by a NMEA2000 net. An Elite-ti handles the depth and shows the chart via built in maps. Decent to Good customer service. Uses both C-Map and Navionics charts plus internal charts. We used the latter at Lake Powell.

You only need one of those, the HDS, but having 2 MFDs allows Judy to see what's happening and gives detail on the depth.

Whatever you buy, here's some things to look out for: NMEA200 connection, plug in charts, good visibility, AIS input via NMEA183. At least 7", preferably 9".

Boris
 
Here is an interesting article that exclaims some of the now widely available features on some fairly modest plotter/sounders.

http://www.sportfishingmag.com/live-son ... shing-maps

It basically uses consumer grade sidescan sonar (pretty awesome) to generate high resolution maps of inshore fishing areas. I've been an early adopter of this technology and it has served me very well in inshore fishing especially as I fish in some waters without detailed charts, and frequently fish in waters where the bottom shifts, sometimes several times in a day! There are a few options out there, I use a proprietary Lowrance system (Insight Genesis), however other manufacturers have their own, and Navionics has a system that works on several manufacturers units (Sonar Chart).

If I were going to purchase my system today I would probably opt for a Garmin rig so that I could avail myself of panoptix sonar, which shows realtime sonar rather than a history. It can also look in front of your boat.
 
"If I were going to purchase my system today I would probably opt for a Garmin rig so that I could avail myself of panoptix sonar, which shows realtime sonar rather than a history. It can also look in front of your boat."
Click to expand...

Kushtaka, can you give us more on the "Looking in front of your boat" please? I have wondered if it wouldn't just be possible to mount one of the side scan systems on a 90 degree off axes mount and see in front and back. Good for maneuvering in skinny water.

Thanks,

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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Although the forward looking systems are better, they are still not ready for prime time, at cruising speed. Basically There are phased arrays, rather than a physical beam scan. Depth of water, speed of the boat, are both factors in now far you can "see. For the PanOptic to be best, it is on a trolling motor on the bow of the boat.

The technology of side scan is a bit different--so that just adapting a side scan side ways, is not going to do the job.
 
thataway":a8f00nzp said:
Although the forward looking systems are better, they are still not ready for prime time, at cruising speed. Basically There are phased arrays, rather than a physical beam scan. Depth of water, speed of the boat, are both factors in now far you can "see. For the PanOptic to be best, it is on a trolling motor on the bow of the boat.

The technology of side scan is a bit different--so that just adapting a side scan side ways, is not going to do the job.
Click to expand...

What if it was on an adjustable mount, and only turned on and lowered into the water when I am at slow cruise (6 knots or less) or particularly when looking around in the corners for a good anchorage.

Often times those are the times I would like a good bottom picture, and sometimes getting into the little "corners" I would be at or below trolling speeds. I'm looking for a replacement for having someone sitting on the bow and watching for the "Hard" spots clearance.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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I haven't had much experience, however I've used Interphase, which I believe Garmin now owns. I'm guessing some lineage from that gear is in Panoptix.

A few commercial fishermen have used this gear and from what they have told me, when they are going slowly they can resolve the bottom in front of the boat pretty well. Enough to help them set nets right up to the shallow water without running aground.

I've played with it a little bit, and the fish you can see are really cool. You can detect fish as they swim in. You are still looking at a 2D rendition of a 3D cone, so can be funny with fish appearing on the screen without swimming in from left or right. These are fish entering the cone from forward or aft, but for whatever reason, my brain always tells me they are coming aft, and moving forward.

I haven't had much chance to play with the forward looking sonar on Garmin though it seems to work well with the boat tied up at the dock.

I do have a Humminbird 360 unit. It's a hassle, and bulky, but you can look forward with it as well. I don't have a spotlight scan for my lowrance gear, but ostensibly, you could look forward with that as well.

In my experience, you can generally see much farther forward in deep water than you can in shallow water. A little bit of a Catch 22. From what I've heard, the Garmin panoptix does a bit better than the other units doing similar jobs.

The technology exists to provide a sharp video image of the bottom and fish around you, but that gear is six figures or more. It's very very impressive what can be had off the shelf today, however with the benefit of using more advanced sonar at work, I expect the Pro-sumer sonar market to grow by leaps and bounds. It's exciting, for example, that DIDSON sonar is no longer the industry standard for sonar video, replaced by ARIS systems (you can see youtube images of both easily). The cost of a DIDSON is now down in the realm of what you might spend on a super high end rig for a yacht ($15-20k). Add to that, the fact that Sound Metrics (the company that manufactures both sonars) no longer supports DIDSON sonar system, the technology has basically been mothballed.

Granted, it is not a technology that would need some engineering to integrate into boating electronics: the transducers are huge and bulky and can be fussy to set up, and the software can be clunky at times, but the images are mind boggling compared to Panoptix, but generally it's a similar concept: a realtime image rendered from sonar.

I guess what I'm rambling towards is the idea that it's likely this, or other similar technologies that were the pinnacle for commercial applications are being replaced by newer stuff, and companies like Garmin, Navico, Raymarine, etc. are likely salivating ant the thought of buying up this tech and a bargain. Like we've seen in the past 3 years, pro-sumer sonar has advanced very very rapidly, largely due to integrating older commercial technologies. There is absolutely no reason to believe that this was an isolated blip in R&D, but likely the beginning of a trend that will enormously improve our ability to "see" underwater.

It's going to be really cool.
 
Here is a youtube clip with panoptix sonar demoing against a clear video time synced. If you watch to the end you will see the forward looking sonar being used on a boat slowly moving forward. They are going over pretty flat ground, but there are other videos you can search for that show more relief. I thought this was a good overview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn317TBaIXY
 
Harvey,
A depth sounder, side scan or bottom scan, only show history--what the boat has passed. The forward scan predicts what will be in front--more like radar--or a narrow beam spotlight. It takes a different processor to predict, than to show history.

There are only two ways to give this information--either a whole bunch of individual transducers some straight ahead from the surface, to the bottom straight down, and if you get really sophisticated as the expensive Furuno units it will also give 120 degrees to each side (but there you are in the very expensive units--from $15K to $20K on up --a bit misleading, because the base price for the black box is as low as $7,000, then the transducer, a tube so it can be retracted into the boat, a computer, and the gyro, GPS, compass inputs...bringing the total on url

The other way, is the rotating sonar scanner, which has been pretty much phased out--this had a dome below the boat (or a transducer in a tube) which rotated like a radar scanner, and then the angle of the scan could be adjusted up and down.

In the link which Kushtaka showed, the first part was with the boat anchored, then slowly moving along a shelf, and finally a sloping bottom. You are seeing a slice of ocean ahead--with multiple transducers, then put together into a picture by the computer in the unit.

Here is the Simrad "Forwardscan" product navigating a channel, and around some rocks. Notice that the chart only shows 60 feet ahead and the boat speed is 1.9 (or less) knots. And with that, watch the wheel on the left (@ 3 min) to see the amount of maneuvering--and then shifting, that it takes to keep from hitting the rocks, even with the scanner and slow speed. Granted this is for demo.

There has been improvement, and will be a lot more--someday we will be at a point where the $25K Furuno unit will be available and affordable--just not yet.
 
WOW, Bob, that the Simrad "Forwardscan" product demo is cool. I like that application. There have been times I have backed into areas so that I could see from the cockpit and watch the sonar bottom on the MFD for "obstructions" because I can't see over the bow, and don't have anyone sitting up on that forward rail to "bottom watch" for me.

60 feet, that's three boat lengths. Plenty at 1.9 knots or less when looking at anchorage spots.

That is the first Simrad stuff I have seen that would make me think about going that, (Simrad) way. I'm sure that Raymarine will catch up, but by then none of it will be compatible with my current equipment. (BTW, I just heard, FLIR stock just took a huge jump up. Due to the combine with RayMarine and some huge contracts with commercial applications.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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