Time for another battery charger discussion?

J

JamesTXSD

Active member
Well, it's been a while since we've discussed onboard battery chargers. I pulled all our batteries out, checked water levels, and connections. The battery switch has been problematic, but some WD-40 and exercise seems to have taken care of that. The Guest charger that the factory installed has been replaced once and this replacement seems to not be giving a charge to the start battery.

So, the options are: replace the Guest with the same thing and not have to mess around with wiring, OR go with something different and mess with wiring. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to have some sort of a meter/read-out, as well.

So, any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
I just switched to a MasterVolt 20 amp charger. The reviews on MasterVolt are excellent, and so far it far out preforms the Guest (I have had 4 of the Guest chargers fail--no more for me!)

One of my friends who is building a 60 foot Power cat, has put in two 24/4000 (230 volts) inverters, with a massive battery bank, instead of generators. Steve Dashew used Mastervolt systems on Windhorse (84 foot power boat).
 
Jim, I assume that when you say the battery switch, you mean the main one, that feeds DC power to the boat. There is a battery charger switch on the AC panel. Sometimes (only on Journey On,) that gets knocked off. But if it's on those batteries had better be getting charged.

So unless the charger has been rewired, that thing operates independently of the DC battery switch. It has a direct connection to each battery bank through a fuse. So to check if anything is being supplied to the battery, one would check the voltage at the battery with the AC power off and then on. Hopefully, with the charger powered, you'll notice an increase in voltage, to ~13 VDC. If not disconnect the charger from the battery, checking voltage back, through the fuses to the output of the charger. So it's either the fuses, the wiring or the charger. I await with bated breath for the answer.

The Guest that came with Journey On was about 5 amps (?) which I felt was too small to do the job. I replace it with a (Xantrex) 40 amp that I had, which was overkill. But then, the batteries are charged. 20 amps is just right.

Boris
 
Jim,

After a series of "issues" with a Pro-sine 2000 last year which may well have cost me two sets of batteries and crappy support form Xantrex I did like Dr Bob and replaced the whole damned thing with a Master Volt 40 A system which is actually built like it was meant to be used on a boat.

To your second question I also added a total current monitoring system which monitors the actual charge/discharge current and voltage level of the house bank at all times. It also computes % capacity remaining.

Since I am still on my first cup of coffee, my brain is not functioning well enough to remember the manufacturer of the current monitor but if it is of interst I will look it up later and even get you some pictures if you need.
Installation was very easy and well explained.

M
 
Coffe works fast !!

Monitor is Magnum. West Marine #9369406. Worth every penny of it's $159.99 :-).

Changed to Smart Plug connector at the boat side of shore power at the same time since the boat is plugged-in all the time at the dock and 4 slots down from me one caught fire last year. Get's your attention !!

M
 
On the monitoring side of things: I've had battery monitors on other boats (various older Link models) and liked having the ability to really know what was going on with the batteries/charging.

For my 22 I decided to try a different brand/model, and bought a Victron BMV-600S (monitors a single bank; the 602S does two banks). I chose it because it got good reviews and because the wire(s) going from the shunt to the gauge is simply a Cat 5 style cable (clips like Ethernet on the ends) instead of a bunch of separate wires. It's also priced attractively (~$150).

I can't fully endorse it yet as I'm just halfway through installing it and haven't used it yet; but I can say that it's straightforward to install. The one bit I have left is to run the Cat 5 cable up into the cabin (already clicked it into the shunt - easy!) and to cut the hole for and install the gauge (optional round or square bezels come with it).

Sunbeam
 
I am using a Link monitoring system, works great. But Victron is probably better. On the RV we have nothing by Magnum--excellent product, no issues with it running 3 years 24/7, (both monitoring and control systems, along with the 2500 pure sine wave inverter/130 amp charger, but that is charging 4 golf carts, and also has temperature sensor....
 
Discovery":214p59zd said:
http://www.basspro.com/ProMariner-Advanced-Pro-Tournament-100-10Amp-2Bank-Charger/product/39734/

I put one in my 2002 Tracker when new. Charging three group 27 batteries in two banks. I sold the boat this summer with the original charger and original batteries. All still going strong. I kept it plugged in 27/7 if not on the water. How many $ did I save in 10 years on batteries?

I bought a Pro Tournament 150 for the new to me 2006 22' Angler I got this fall.
Click to expand...

Brent

Which battery brand?
 
I thought of a couple of criteria which I use for selecting a battery charger AND generator.

As for the battery charger, no matter how big and we're not talking more than 40 amps, the full output of the charger is only used for the first 10 min, if that. The charging rate drops pretty quickly after the starting surge. I charge 2 ea golf cart batteries and one group 27, and the charging rate starts from 20 amps, down to 10 and finally settles in at 5 amps for the remainder of the charge. and those batteries are new. The moral is buying over 20 amps for a C-Dory isn't worthwhile.

Second is the size of the generator. We only use a generator after several days at anchor, and I have a Honda 1000i. Great generator, but it can only handle ~25 amps of 12 VDC charging. That works out to (25 amps x 13.5 VDC) about 340 watts, well below the 800 the unit's rating. So, that 1000i will handle a 20 amp charger, and one doesn't need the 2000i.

Also, the 1000i is an inverter generator. I used to have a larger non-inverter generator which wouldn't handle the Freedom charger I used, due to the power factor. So be careful that you get a battery charger and generator which work together. I think the new smaller, high frequency chargers need the inverter.

I just found out that COSTCO sells deep discharge batteries. Actually I found out about this after I had trouble trying to get the local dealer to honor the Exide warranty. Turns out COSTCO just exchanges the battery when you bring it in. So now I have 3 ea Costco batteries in Journey On: 2 golf and one 27. Cheaper and better guarantee.

A few random thoughts, Boris
 
Boris - Cosco is great with returns, also if they lower the price of something you bought 2 or 3 months ago you can take in your bill and they will return you the difference in price - as long as they have the item in stock.

You are right a 20 amp charger will probably suffice for most C Dory's. The ideal initial amperage is calculated based on the size of the battery bank. The battery manufacturer will tell you the best bulk charge voltage for your batteries.(usually around 14.6) Your charger should be able to maintain that amperage until your batteries reach that voltage. If the amperage starts to ramp down before that voltage is reached then the charger is weak/overrated or it is operating in too hot an enviroment.

Also agree - the generator, charger and batteries all need to be compatable.

Regards, Rob
 
I didn't get my coffee before, or proof read after. 24/7 on the charger. The batteries were Interstate group 27 wet cells. I just topped off the cells with distilled water each year. There were two periods of 5 months when the boat was off the grid in an RV park and only daily fishing trips kept the batteries charged.
 
Jim, so you have a Guest 5/5 charger right now and likely a couple of non-sealed batteries likely group 27 size. Is that about right? Have you been doing well enough with your current capacity and rate of recharge when plugged back in after some time running them down?

Would you like to add more battery power? Would you like to take this opportunity to move some weight around possibly changing the battery locations? Do you have a need for more outlets or are there other changes to your 12v leads that you would like to reroute? Are you tired of switching loads for starting/charging/anchoring and might like some automation built in? Would you like to monitor your power use like a fuel usage gauge or more like a simple volt meter to know general charge level?

The more you tell us, the better we can help you out with specific advice.

Greg
 
Aurelia":1ltho7vu said:
Jim, so you have a Guest 5/5 charger right now and likely a couple of non-sealed batteries likely group 27 size. Is that about right? Have you been doing well enough with your current capacity and rate of recharge when plugged back in after some time running them down?

Would you like to add more battery power? Would you like to take this opportunity to move some weight around possibly changing the battery locations? Do you have a need for more outlets or are there other changes to your 12v leads that you would like to reroute? Are you tired of switching loads for starting/charging/anchoring and might like some automation built in? Would you like to monitor your power use like a fuel usage gauge or more like a simple volt meter to know general charge level?

The more you tell us, the better we can help you out with specific advice.

Greg
Click to expand...

Hi Greg,

We have the 5/5/10 Guest charger. My needs are pretty simple: I'd like the darn thing to work, as in: charge the batteries. I'm not completely dissatisfied with the wussy rate of charge of the Guest... IF it would actually charge the batteries. The first charger flat out died. This one seems to be OK charging one bank, but not the other. Wiring and fuses all check out. Plus, it starts out charging on the one side that still works, and then decides that the batteries are full up, when they aren't.

I have to say that Guest was good with customer service, sending me out another one to replace the dead one, not long after we first got the boat.

The batteries are grp 27, typical lead acid (not sealed). I have decided, after staying with Interstate since the boat was new, that I will be putting in Wal-Mart batteries... available everywhere. Totally OK with the battery capacity... although we go through batteries every two years on average. Yes, we check 'em. It seems that we only get fully charged when the engine is running and the alternator is doing the job. Leads me to believe the Guest charger just ain't quite doing its job.

Best wishes,
Jim
 
I was just browsing the Blue Sea Systems web site, and it appears that they will be offering a 25A smart/multiple battery charger 1Q2013, called the P12.

Guess we won't know if it's the hot ticket till it has an established track record, but it looks good on paper and comes from a reputable company....be interested to hear what others think about it anyway...
 
Jim - you should get more than 2 years from your batteries. Heres a few suggestions.

1/ Use only quality batteries designed for marine use. They are built to withstand vibration better than a car battery. Also make sure they are secured to minimize vibration. (not just loose inside a battery box)

2/ Starting battery for starting - deep cycle for house loads. Simply put - don't mix them when charging or mix their intended use.

3/ Keep your batteries at the upper levels of their charge capacity. You should not discharge your house bank below about 50% capacity(on a regular basis). You can buy an alarm or low voltage cutoff switch to protect your batteries. Some inverters have them built in.

4/ Maintain wet cell levels religiously. If you let the fluid level fall below the level of the plates - the amount of plate left exposed is now dead and you loose that % of capacity.

4/ If your charger has the option - after adding water(distilled) give them an equalizing charge at a higher voltage (usually around 15.5v). This helps to remix the electrolyte.

5/ If your batteries are normally charged at low amperage they will benefit from an equalizing charge as well. It helps offset the effects of stratification(which batteries charged at low amperages suffer from).

6/ Maintain connections - clean post and cable end - install - then a light spray with battery terminal protector. Never spray the cable end or battery post before the connection is made and tight.

Just a few of the many things that will shorten the service life of a battery.

Regards, Rob
 
Hi Rob,

We have taken care with the batteries. Until this summer, I have been using Interstate marine batteries, deep cycle for the house side, starting battery for... well, for starting.

I have pretty much lost faith in Interstate. I have had two batteries fail within a couple months during that time. Of course, if they are on the house side, a bad one degrades the other. When we bought the boat (new), one battery failed within 6 months. Keep in mind, this was new... as in: from the factory... we picked the boat up at the factory. The boat was supposed to have two house batteries, it only had one. The factory added a second one when we gave them our shake-down list. When I tried to get the first failed battery replaced, I was told, "That battery is 17 months old." Interesting, since the boat was only 6 months old at the time.

If we're keeping track, that is 9 batteries in less than 6 years. I keep the boat plugged in when we're home. If we're out and about with the boat, it is getting regular use. The batteries almost never need water - they are not boiling away. The batteries have sat in the boat during the previous two summers, while we were off doing "fun summer jobs."

The original Guest charger died sometime within the first few months. The second charger, same Guest 2621A seemed to work fine, but we continued killing batteries every other year. Now, the Guest charger isn't working on one of the banks, two more batteries that are a little better than marginal, and I'm not all fired up about putting more of the same in there.

Further more interesting stuff, all our other battery-using stuff gets us 4 or more years out of the batteries. No battery issues on any other boats we've owned. I think I should get more than two years out of the batteries on this boat, too.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Jim,

I have a somewhat different philosophy, do it right and go for overkill the first time! The two 275 AH Lifeline 8-D AGMs installed in 2006 are going strong.
P5150001.jpg


They get charged and maintained by the 80 amp charger that is part of the 2000w Outback Inverter.

P5220002.jpg

6 Years and all is humming along. I just replaced the Optima start batteries.
 
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