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Dreamer

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While working on my last project in the compartment under the table, I had the occasion to get my head down into the compartment to look around. The brackets visible normally were all stainless, even if some of them had pan head screws where they should have had flat head screws. However, looking closely, the brackets and screws in the places you couldn't normally see were right out of Home Depot. Cheap zinc plated hardware store stuff. This isn't a QC problem, just cost cutting by using improper hardware on a boat. The QC problem was the 3 screws missing out of 12.

Disappointing. Not too surprising...
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Roger, you are lucky to have any stainless brackets. I have none--zero in the two boats. In the C Dory 25, I have removed most of the zinc /cadmium plated brackets and replaced them with fiberglass tabs--which is probably the way they should have been built in the first place. Contemplating what to do in the 255--since I will probably remove the furniture to put in the port water tank, I'll leave them for now...
 
Hi Folks,

Good thread.

In my 1983 C-Dory, ALL the brackets have rusted through. I am replacing them with brass brackets and brass screws as I need to.

I also had a new engine replaced and they used screws where they should of used nuts and bolts. When I brought it up, they could not understand why I was upset.

Also this year there is a lot of rust coming down the stern from where the controls for the engine were placed. I do not think it is just rusting from covered stainless. I will deal with the problem after I pull the boat out of the water this fall.

I have pulled every nut and bolt at deck level, and recaulked them. Most of the cleats were never caulked.

I have also epoxied the holes when I pulled the bolts.

Hopefully this will make the boat last longer.

Fred
 
Same thing in my 2006 22 cruiser. Zinc el brackets around the cabin bilge well, supporting the plywood rear dinette underseat storage area, etc. etc. I'm almost afraid to look under the deck at the cleat attachments. Don't they care at all about the reputation or usable life of the boat?? Sounds a little bit like they're selling as fast as they can until somebody catches on then they'll sell out. Its getting to where crappy QC and care-less materials and practices are the norm. How sad.
 
Fred,
I am not understanding where screws instead of bolts were used whan mounting an engine.

My right angle brackets are cadmium plated, not SS but are holding up ok so far.

Also......my 1983 has rust coming out of the mounting bolts under the deck where the bow rail is mounted. The bolts and rail are SS so do not know where the rust is coming from.

My cleats are set in a sealant so those are ok.

I personally think that when you hire a bunch of "Nimrods" in the 1st place and then subject them to fiberglass fumes 8-10 hrs. a day you will not end up with clear thinking folks that have QC on their mind. JMHO.

Jack
 
Jack, I just went through this on Shearwater with rust starting to show on the gel coat around the rail mounts and fuel fill inlet. What I found is that the seal around the bolts was bad and letting water into the core. The damp core caused the bolts to bleed a small amount of rust and stain the gel coat.
Soooooo I pulled all of my rails (something like 40 bolts for all the rails on my 25) and found about 6 that were leaking. No core damage just had to dry everything out and reseal. Without exception if there was rust there was a leaking bolt.

stevej
 
At the risk of demonstrating (once again) :? my inexperience with boats - how essential is it to replace any non-ss brackets/screws used inside the cabin (particularly if the boat will spend most of its time in fresh water).

Thanks
 
Again another shinning (or at least while it is new) example of cost cutting corners. I guess in the non-salt air environment, the non-stainless hardware, inside a "dry" cabin is of less concearn than in the salty wet air. But, with humidity....things inside and out are often damp to wet at best. I like stainless. I like thru bolts with nuts when ever and where ever possible. I like 4200 when I do not want to glue it, but just seal it and reduce vibration noises, 5200 when I want to glue and seal it....and reduce vibration noises while holding out moisture of any kind.

Heard the inside of a new C-Dory lately? Not sure anyone in the factory has taken a nice weekend trip in one of late. :unlove

Now, I guess it is time to seperate the Tug folks from the Dory folks here. Jeff and the crew at the Tug factory are continuing their improvements and listening to the owners. A simple walk down the docks at Bellingham C-Brat Gathering and talking to the CR25T owners showed that for sure. Keep up the good work :hug Jeff :hug2 . Nice to know someone still cares. :thup

C-Liner maybe in the future? :mrgreen:

Time will tell.

I am still truly greatful for the boats and the C-Brat site and gatherings. Great folks...and a great site for us to enjoy our improvements to our boats.

Byrdman
 
Jack,

The screws were used to put on a new battery switch, because I also added a second battery when I had the engine added. It just seemed to be slip shot work and my opinion of them went down considerably when they could not understand why I was mad. Somebody else does the warrantee work now.

As for the rust in the stern. That was also part of the same job. I have to check it out. Stainless that does not get fresh air rusts a little, not a lot.

Fred
 
Mark,

I don't think it is nearly as important to have all Stainless Steel in fresh water. For centuries, boats have used raw iron in ships - it needs preventive maintenance and care. Of course, leaking water around fasteners is bad news regardless of the metal.

Guess what one of the best cleaner/coatings is for Stainless Steel? WD-40. I have a lot of galvanized things in my TomCat in the cabin. Dry them, Spray with WD-40 now and then, and enjoy your boating.

One of the guys with rusting, galvanized "L" fittings had a 1983 boat! What would some maintenance have done for that? I think that's 24 years of service...

When I've had a leak or noticed water belowdecks, and the weather is nice, I open up all the deck and under cupboard hatches, maybe even run a fan or two and let it all dry out. Then spray the metals. Probably once or twice a year would prevent rust. If you see much rust, just unscrew the fitting and replace it or clean and coat it and put it back.

I try to get Stainless on deck and outside hardware, but I don't think everything in the boat absolutely has to be stainless steel.

Note that most of your anchor hardware , including the roller guide and support, is only galvanized and that stuff takes quite a beating and alot of exposure.

John
 
I see the problem with the brackets is that they are not hot dip galvanized--they are zinc or cadmium plated. There is a lot of difference between galvanized and just zinc plated. Zind plating will rust fairly quickly. Incidently, there are some SS fitings (such as my gas caps) which have rusted badly--cheap Chinese "SS". Some of the fittings my canvas guy also rusted. Those will be replaced.

The material which is used in ships and is highly rust resistant is black iron. It cannot easily be welded and is riveted. We were onboard a Dutch canal boat, which was 100 years old, and "planked" with black iron--there had only been two planks replaced in the 100 years of her life.

The "L" brackets are "OK" in the TC 255 because they are screwed into the cabin floor, where water is very unlikely to stand. But in the C D 25 there is a greater problem--that is that the screws go directly into the core of the bottom of the boat, and there is a chance of water getting into this area. For that reason I have removed all of these screws, filled the screw holes with epoxy, and then used fiberglass tabs to make sure that the bulkheads, and the furniture stay in place. I have not done this on the TC 255, but may later, after the second water tank is put in place..

I probably would coat the L brackets with corrosion block. It is much better than WD 40 at preventing corrosion.
 
As always - appreciate all the great information on this site.

I'll definitely use ss in any fittings on the exterior of the boat and most likely on any new projects in the cabin - but won't stress on any of the existing interior hardware other than to periodically coat with WD 40 or some type of corrosion block where needed.

Thanks
 
Bob,

Interesting differentiation between the fittings going into a cabin sole vs. a balsa cored hull bottom. Also appreciated the Hot Dip vs. plated info.

Thanks,

John
 
thataway":1buhotq5 said:
Roger, you are lucky to have any stainless brackets. I have none--zero in the two boats. In the C Dory 25, I have removed most of the zinc /cadmium plated brackets and replaced them with fiberglass tabs--which is probably the way they should have been built in the first place. Contemplating what to do in the 255--since I will probably remove the furniture to put in the port water tank, I'll leave them for now...
Click to expand...

What is a fiberglass tab? Not sure I understand how fiberglass would be used, for example, in the picture of Roger's pot :mrgreen: cabinet.

Warren
 
Is there an era when the quality of the 22 Cruisers was better than the newer ones?? When did corner cutting accelerate??

I spent a few hours at the SD Boat show this weekend, the 22 Cruiser seemed great, but no 22 Angler to compare. But,when I started to look at the fittings, etc, I can see areas of concern. I do expect to get one in 12-24 months, trying to figure out the best era. Probably one not stored in water.

2 boats ago we had a Cobalt, amazing quality and finish. But when I told the dealer I used to clean salmon on the back deck, I thought they were gonna get ill.:xseek Worse when I told them I trolled with 2 buckets to slow me down. "You can't do that on a Cobalt." I did point out who owned the boat. :xnaughty
 
When did corner cutting accelerate??
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That's easy: right after my boat was built!

(just kidding - to all you latter model owners)

Problems really seemed to rise dramatically with the arrival of the new Tomcat and the lawsuit with Cape Cruiser, IMO. They may have just maxed out their ability to check things properly.
 
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