Swim ladder pulling through platform

Gunslinger1

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HI Everyone,

as you see in the photo the swim ladder is pulling through the platform.

Well.........I don't know how to post the photo.

the swim ladder is bolted to the platform on the back of the boat and there are 2 squares on the top that are wanting to pull through the platform.

I would appreciate how this has been handled in the past or ideas on solutions.

Thank you,
Tim



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If the photo has an Internet address, just post that. Ask administrator (TyBoo or DaNag) for a photo album.

Send me a photo, and I can put it up if necessary.


If it is pulling thru the standard C Dory factory swim platform, I would be worried about core damage in the swim step. Undo the bolts which hold the backing plate on the ladder/platform, and remove it. Then take a look at the core of the platform. It is entirely possible that it there is core water intrusion and failure. That means you will have some serious repair work to do. Perhaps even recording the step. Of course you could always put on a larger SS plate--but that just hides the issue--and kicks the can down the road....
 
Here is the photo of Gunslinger1's swim step.
IMG_0055.jpg

My off the cuff assessment is that either there was a defect in the manufacture of the swim step, or the ladder has been stressed--like a 400 pounder jumping on it.

There appears to be cracking of the upper laminate--both at the stress load plate and the sides of the swim step. Also there is a small crack inboard and above the outboard plate. This tends to make me suspect that perhaps the laminate was thin on the surface.

Repair:--most likely there is core damage. I would pull the bolts for the ladder. Then asses the nature of the core damage. A moisture meter will probably read high on this surface--(only valid if the boat has not had moisture on the swim step for several days. Even after a heavy dew, a horizontal surface may read high.

You can over drill the holes to assess the nature of the core moisture. It will most likely be wet, and compromised. I don't know if it is plywood or balsa. In either case, I would rebuild it with either Coosa board or marine ply 3/4" thick. You will have to remove the core--this may be done easier from the underside. But considering the cracks on the surface, in this case I would rebuild from the top. Cut out the cored area, feather the side fiberglass. Set in the new core with epoxy Where the bolts go thru, make this solid glass or PVC lumber. cut in bloc or a circle. The other option is to over drill the. holes, and fill with epoxy--and then drill the holes. I would overlay with two layers of 1708 fiberglass cloth (this is 17 oz biaxial roving at+/- 45* axis with 3/4oz epoxy computable mat) and epoxy. I would add put one more layer of 6 Oz cloth to be sure it was well tied over the edges. The non skid on this can be obtained with cabosil thickened gel coat. I don't think it is worth trying to save the old surface--but some might take that route. If so you would have to feather in the edges as you bonded to the side of the step. (You have to do. a little of that with the 1708.). To get good gel coat bond on the step, you should wash the cured and faired surface, with soap and water, then lightly sand with 80 grit. Do a quick pass with a propane torch to "flame harden". Then Gel coat should adhere nicely.

Another option would be to fair the surface. Then use either glass micro beads or ground walnut (or similar) shells set in epoxy. Finally several coats of paint in "Hatteras White"--close enough to match the gel coat in the C Dory. I probably would use the latter approach. Silica sand is a bit more aggressive than I like, but is a possibility some would use.
 
A third option is just buy an entire new swim step from the manufacturer. You can get it from Wefings for about $550 without the ladder. I believe the ladder is Garelick (it is COTS anyway).

Depending on your "handiness" and patience, a new swim step might be the way to go.

The factory swim step is through bolted for the top bolts and the lower bolts are lag screws. Getting the through bolts in/out is a bit of a pain, but can be done without taking out the fuel tank (at least on an '08 22 cruiser).
 
ssobol":3ky99zap said:
A third option is just buy an entire new swim step from the manufacturer. You can get it from Wefings for about $550 without the ladder. I believe the ladder is Garelick (it is COTS anyway).

Depending on your "handiness" and patience, a new swim step might be the way to go.

The factory swim step is through bolted for the top bolts and the lower bolts are lag screws. Getting the through bolts in/out is a bit of a pain, but can be done without taking out the fuel tank (at least on an '08 22 cruiser).

Thank you for this info...……...I have wondered about getting the platform off.

are the bottom bolts in serts? or screwed directly into the glass?
 
Gunslinger1":21a1xcr5 said:
ssobol":21a1xcr5 said:
A third option is just buy an entire new swim step from the manufacturer. You can get it from Wefings for about $550 without the ladder. I believe the ladder is Garelick (it is COTS anyway).

Depending on your "handiness" and patience, a new swim step might be the way to go.

The factory swim step is through bolted for the top bolts and the lower bolts are lag screws. Getting the through bolts in/out is a bit of a pain, but can be done without taking out the fuel tank (at least on an '08 22 cruiser).

Thank you for this info...……...I have wondered about getting the platform off.

are the bottom bolts in serts? or screwed directly into the glass?

The bottom attachments are about 1-1/4" lag screws that go directly into the glass.

There is sealant around the edge of the platform where it meets the hull. This will need to be cut. I don't know if there is any sort of sealant or adhesive that is between the step flange and the hull.

My boat had a single step on the port side. I added a second factory step on the starboard side (IMO this is a great mod). When doing this, I took out one of the top bolts and one of the bottom screws on the existing step so I could see what they were in order to get the same hardware to add the new step.

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
 
When I moved our step from starboard to port a few yrs ago the caulking/adhesive used by the factory did not "give up" without a fight. 5200? Who knows, but it was a battle getting if off. Pics are posted in our gallery along with what I did to overcome the stuff. IIRC, there is also a thread on it with advice from more experienced members.
 
localboy":11idgt6k said:
When I moved our step from starboard to port a few yrs ago the caulking/adhesive used by the factory did not "give up" without a fight. 5200? Who knows, but it was a battle getting if off. Pics are posted in our gallery along with what I did to overcome the stuff. IIRC, there is also a thread on it with advice from more experienced members.


Looked at your pics of the repair.........Wow really nice work.
 
localboy":120pes0s said:
When I moved our step from starboard to port a few yrs ago the caulking/adhesive used by the factory did not "give up" without a fight. 5200? Who knows, but it was a battle getting if off. Pics are posted in our gallery along with what I did to overcome the stuff. IIRC, there is also a thread on it with advice from more experienced members.

O would have tried pulling a wire through the joint to try and cut the sealant.
 
localboy":3b41ozsj said:
When I moved our step from starboard to port a few yrs ago the caulking/adhesive used by the factory did not "give up" without a fight. 5200? Who knows, but it was a battle getting if off. Pics are posted in our gallery along with what I did to overcome the stuff. IIRC, there is also a thread on it with advice from more experienced members.

Great thread and job: Here is the link.

If, (probably "all") bolts in the transom are thru a core which is not sealed with epoxy, there should be over drilling, undercutting and thickened epoxy filling, with new holes drilled in the center of the plugs. If you are going to take the swim step off, these precautions should be taken to preserve the transom core. One might argue that "foam" does not need to be protected. The issue is that if moisture gets into any core, freeze thaw cycles will cause some delimitation and structural change no matter what the cored material is.

I checked the swim step and ladder on my 25. The original ladder had been removed, and the holes filled with epoxy. A larger/longer ladder had been placed under the step, and there was about a 3/8" piece of PVC lumber between the ladder and the bolts. There were fender washers each each of the 16 bolts on top . No evidence of stress from the new ladder, but the loadt seems to be spread out more than the stock ladder.
 
[If, (probably "all") bolts in the transom are thru a core which is not sealed with epoxy, there should be over drilling, undercutting and thickened epoxy filling, with new holes drilled in the center of the plugs. If you are going to take the swim step off, these precautions should be taken to preserve the transom core. One might argue that "foam" does not need to be protected. The issue is that if moisture gets into any core, freeze thaw cycles will cause some delimitation and structural change no matter what the cored material is.


Bob.........I know this is correct. I am going to do my best to leave it on the boat for the repair.
 
[If, (probably "all") bolts in the transom are thru a core which is not sealed with epoxy, there should be over drilling, undercutting and thickened epoxy filling, with new holes drilled in the center of the plugs. If you are going to take the swim step off, these precautions should be taken to preserve the transom core. One might argue that "foam" does not need to be protected. The issue is that if moisture gets into any core, freeze thaw cycles will cause some delimitation and structural change no matter what the cored material is.


Bob.........I know this is correct. I am going to do my best to leave it on the boat for the repair.
I wonder how Gunslinger made out (member not seen since 2021), as this is on my project list for spring. Same exact failure on our swim platform, which has since been can-kicked by prior owner with a stainless plate to distribute the load, but it’s only a few inch plate and still flexes quite a bit when using the ladder (and cracks beneath are spreading beyond the plate). I let my little ones use it but I don’t step on the ladder as it torques the bolts/plate and looks like it may rip through. I don’t want to remove the platform from the boat so am planning to do a lobotomy on it. The extendable 2-step swim ladder also leaves much to be desired and often partially slides out (despite being clipped-in and cinched) and causes spray. That, too, will be replaced (or at least modified so it can be secured properly).

Has anyone done this yet and has pictures to share ahead of time? For now I’m planning to re-core and glass the step, but was also wondering about some type of fiberglass rimmed inlay with teak center instead that acts as both structure and finish work, with a flexible sealant. Doubt there’s a way to keep water out while also providing the strength necessary for someone to stand on while potentially pulling someone else up.

(We have an other 12-18” of snow coming tomorrow so I distract myself with warm weather thoughts and boat to-do list schemes.)
 
O would have tried pulling a wire through the joint to try and cut the sealant.
Heat gun makes easy work of 5200 for future reference😉👍
 
What you quote as coming from "Gunslinger1" is actually a quote of the material I had posted. If you have flexion and cracking, this bodes for core damage. put your main motor in the trailering position and put your full body weight on the skeg--pull down on it-- If there is any flection of the transom, you are in for a transom rebuild. It is very possible that the core of the transom may not extend all of the way to the corner of the transom, and there is solid glass in the outer most swim setp bolt. Do the tests first, just sealing in moistue no matter what the core, will lead to more failure down the line and I know of several cases of transom failure. Then you have a very serious problem which disables your boat--and probably hand holding a 90 hp outboard motor at idle speed to the next ramp.

The flexion is not acceptable with a plate inside--repair transom very minimal at this place, but I would do the motor test next time you can. Even in the water, the flexion test can be done. I woud consider this urgent.

Rebuilding means removal of the motor an all hardware. Then cut open out the outside of the transom and remove the outer laminate. Some folks just take a chain saw down the middle of the transom under the "cap" (which is part of the hull to deck joint.) Then they pore a casting material into the void where the core was. You have to get this cavity clean of all wood chips--some of these transoms look like toothpicks instead of the original plywood core. Just injection of epoxy resin will not be satisfactory.

Please let us know what you find.
 
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