Getting pretty serious about a 2000 22' Cruiser from a dealer who assures that all systems will be functional on delivery. Insurers aren't insisting on a survey. It strikes me that the wide experience of many here might make them comfortable with their own thorough inspection of a potential used boat purchase but what about others? A survey's never a bad idea IMHO, but how many used C-Dory buyers have one done? Because I'm afraid of cored hulls in general (plus what I've read here about rubrail attachment points,etc.) my main focus would be having the hull gone over minutely with a moisture meter. What else should I be concerned about (boat looks fine to my relatively unpracticed eye)? Just throwing this out in hopes of snaring some opinions.
Survey, yes or no?
- Thread starter Spike38
- Start date
Not all surveyors are created equal. Many are not worth the charge--a really good one is--just belonging to a society is no assurance of a good surveyor.
Although there are ultrasonic measurements which are available and can determine the status of a cored hull---these are not owned by any marine surveyors I know of. (We have been working on this technology specificially and have meters which have not been produced for public sale). IR scans can be of value--but again not many surveyors have them.
Moisture meters are of some value--but if the boat has been in the water it has to dry for at least several days. Bottom paint, metal objects can give false readings.
A boat sitting dry should be low in moisture. It is possiable that water in the core may be found. The boats before 2002 should be fine--and had very few probelms.
Another reason for a good marine survey, is to look to see if the boat qualifies to ABYC standards. Many of the C Dories do not qualify--and to my knowlege C Dory was NMMA certified for only one year.
Do not use a surveyor recommended by a dealer--find one who a boater who is knowlegable has used.
Although there are ultrasonic measurements which are available and can determine the status of a cored hull---these are not owned by any marine surveyors I know of. (We have been working on this technology specificially and have meters which have not been produced for public sale). IR scans can be of value--but again not many surveyors have them.
Moisture meters are of some value--but if the boat has been in the water it has to dry for at least several days. Bottom paint, metal objects can give false readings.
A boat sitting dry should be low in moisture. It is possiable that water in the core may be found. The boats before 2002 should be fine--and had very few probelms.
Another reason for a good marine survey, is to look to see if the boat qualifies to ABYC standards. Many of the C Dories do not qualify--and to my knowlege C Dory was NMMA certified for only one year.
Do not use a surveyor recommended by a dealer--find one who a boater who is knowlegable has used.
This probably won't help you much, but I didn't opt for a survey. Not that I'm that familiar with CD's, but I am pretty good (least I think I am) at noticing things that might cause a problem with the core...(floor or transom).
Ours was the only used CD that I'd ever seen up close, but the older model wood cabinetry allowed me to inspect the fastening brackets and such, I visually inspected the hull several times, and crawled around underneath as well.
I had intended to have a survey done, but the sales price, and overall condition just didn't warrant it.
If I had been about to pay market value...then I probably would have. But I stole mine! :lol:
Ours was the only used CD that I'd ever seen up close, but the older model wood cabinetry allowed me to inspect the fastening brackets and such, I visually inspected the hull several times, and crawled around underneath as well.
I had intended to have a survey done, but the sales price, and overall condition just didn't warrant it.
If I had been about to pay market value...then I probably would have. But I stole mine! :lol:
Riley-Morgan 735
New member
This could be an interesting topic and one very close to my heart. I too am in the market for a used C-dory. In fact, there is one currently on the market that I really want, but I'm running into financial discussion dead ends (wife & bank).
I can get a boat loan, but the bank requires a survey. So, do I spend $600-$1,000 on a survey when I only plan on financing ~$20K?
Is the return on my investment (getting a survey) going to be worth it or do you trust a fellow C-Brat?
Personally, I'm leaning toward trusting a fellow C-Brat and figuring out how to con my wife out of the $25K sale price and spending the money I would have given to a surveyor on the "extras" I want to get.
So, my $.02. If spending $20-$25K, a survey may not be worth it. If spending $40K+, I would get a survey. Anywhere in between is up for debate.
-Randy
I can get a boat loan, but the bank requires a survey. So, do I spend $600-$1,000 on a survey when I only plan on financing ~$20K?
Is the return on my investment (getting a survey) going to be worth it or do you trust a fellow C-Brat?
Personally, I'm leaning toward trusting a fellow C-Brat and figuring out how to con my wife out of the $25K sale price and spending the money I would have given to a surveyor on the "extras" I want to get.
So, my $.02. If spending $20-$25K, a survey may not be worth it. If spending $40K+, I would get a survey. Anywhere in between is up for debate.
-Randy
Riley-Morgan 735":2j6y99dw said:
If I were buying a twin engine 32 ft. inboard or I/O, I'd worry about a mechanical/engine survey equally as much as a hull survey. Even if I stole a 32 ft. sportfisher for $25k. The risk is too high and unforseen repairs could double my initial investment.
OTOH, you are talking about a 22 ft. boat and an outboard motor. In this instance, I would certainly opt for a good checkup of the outboard by a qualified mechanic, but I would pass on the hull survey, relying on my own eyes (and maybe another Brat's second opinion) rather than spend the money. In all likelihood, what are the chances of a major hull problem that cost MORE than that $1,000 hull survey to repair?
If the outboard is hosed, that's major and it's not unusual at all, AND it's condition is NOT checked in a normal hull survey. At least not here in SoCal....
Again, balance risk against reward.
Of course my opinion is worth precisely what you paid for it.
Don
Randy...Good point! There seem to be a few dealers here that I would most certainly trust for a used purchase, but buying from a fellow C-Brat might top that. There may be some archived posts from the seller that document any problems, and what they did to fix it.
BTW...I sold the wife on the "investment" aspect of buying a C Dory...it worked finacially...but even better as stress relief and alot of quality time together...worth every penny!
BTW...I sold the wife on the "investment" aspect of buying a C Dory...it worked finacially...but even better as stress relief and alot of quality time together...worth every penny!
I think I would first try to find a knowledgable "brat" in my area and see if they would go with you to look at it. I certainly would hesitate to get a survey. I have had a lot of surveys and most, to me, were not all that helpful. I don't need a surveyor to tell me the compass globe is foggy, or a lot of other minor things. If the motor is out of warranty I would probably try to have it checked. And I would probably take a close look at the transom, inside and out. And get a sea trial and see if anything pops up.
Riley-Morgan 735
New member
Hey snal-
Let me make a quick clarification. I've done the super hard work and my wife has agreed to getting a C-dory
The difficulty lies in the time line. Boat then kitchen remodel or visa versa. So basically, a boat this summer or next? That's where my negotiation sits :lol:
-Randy
Let me make a quick clarification. I've done the super hard work and my wife has agreed to getting a C-dory
The difficulty lies in the time line. Boat then kitchen remodel or visa versa. So basically, a boat this summer or next? That's where my negotiation sits :lol:
-Randy
Riley-Morgan 735":1a963isr said:Hey snal-
Let me make a quick clarification. I've done the super hard work and my wife has agreed to getting a C-dory
The difficulty lies in the time line. Boat then kitchen remodel or visa versa. So basically, a boat this summer or next? That's where my negotiation sits :lol:
-Randy
I see...I can't help with that one...my instinct would point to a functional kitchen and a serious lack of a boat...which would...and has...landed me in the doghouse...I finally got smart...you should see my doghouse!...I could live there indefinately! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Based on what I have learned from the transom rebuild on Shearwater I would do more than just a visual inspection if doing my own survey.
There are some pretty easy things that can be checked without having a meter or drilling holes.
On the visual part look closely at
screwheads, see if there is sealant around the head and behind what it attaches to. Inspect the transom drains, motor bolts, kicker bracket, and cleats for sealant
Look for light rust stains on the gelcoat around the railing screws and any brackets. Could be cheep stainless or a damp core under the screw will have the same effect
Take a screwdriver and a tube of good sealant if the owner will agree to let you pull a couple of screws or best case they should do it for you.
Remove some screw from the lowest point on the transom, inspect the screw for any rust and the hole for sealant or better yet see if the hole has been epoxy lined (tough to do without removing some part completely)
Be nice to check both sides at a minimum
Do the same for say one of the fuel tank screws (these seem to be an issues on the 22) and a L bracket
If it is attached to a cored part of the boat it needs to be sealed and goop is the traditional way but should be redone every other year at the most. Really should be epoxy lined with sealant.
Your are lucky to have a resource like the C-Brat site to assist, there are a number of areas on the 22 that come up frequently. L brackets, fuel tank mounting screws, keel guard screws, anchor locker drains. I do not own a 22 but these are the ones I remember.
Don't forget the electrical, at least check out the condition of the main panel for what it looks like, neat is always good, birds nest not so good.
Good luck and hope you get the wife on board so to speak
stevej
There are some pretty easy things that can be checked without having a meter or drilling holes.
On the visual part look closely at
screwheads, see if there is sealant around the head and behind what it attaches to. Inspect the transom drains, motor bolts, kicker bracket, and cleats for sealant
Look for light rust stains on the gelcoat around the railing screws and any brackets. Could be cheep stainless or a damp core under the screw will have the same effect
Take a screwdriver and a tube of good sealant if the owner will agree to let you pull a couple of screws or best case they should do it for you.
Remove some screw from the lowest point on the transom, inspect the screw for any rust and the hole for sealant or better yet see if the hole has been epoxy lined (tough to do without removing some part completely)
Be nice to check both sides at a minimum
Do the same for say one of the fuel tank screws (these seem to be an issues on the 22) and a L bracket
If it is attached to a cored part of the boat it needs to be sealed and goop is the traditional way but should be redone every other year at the most. Really should be epoxy lined with sealant.
Your are lucky to have a resource like the C-Brat site to assist, there are a number of areas on the 22 that come up frequently. L brackets, fuel tank mounting screws, keel guard screws, anchor locker drains. I do not own a 22 but these are the ones I remember.
Don't forget the electrical, at least check out the condition of the main panel for what it looks like, neat is always good, birds nest not so good.
Good luck and hope you get the wife on board so to speak
stevej
flapbreaker
New member
I would think the decision to have a survey or not could safely be based on your initial visual inspection plus a little history about the boat. If it's one that's been moored in the water for extended periods of time that, in my mind would sway me toward the survey. Also, what the condition of the gelgoat looks like ect.
Many thanks to all who responded! Excellent spread of opinions, all instructive and much appreciated. And yes, this site's a terrific resource! Have been on lists previously for other boats and none came close in terms of "substance". The result of your replies: From the guy who surveyed our sailboat the other day for its now-new owners I got the name of a surveyor nearer to the prospective C-Dory, called and discussed my major concerns, got a good feeling that we are on the same page. At $12/foot on a $25K boat the survey seems a worthwhile investment and I plan to proceed with it. Thank you all again.