I am looking--from a distance--at several used C-22s. One has twin 40s--carbed Hondas. I don't want to restart the single/twin squabble that I see in the archives, but I do note that most singles are 90s or better, and I assume twins are less efficient than singles. Is performance with twin 40s OK? I don't need high top end speed, but when it is flat, I would like to be able to cruise 18-20 without straining the motors unduly. Is that possible with twin Honda 40s? As always, I appreciate any response. Sam
Sufficiency/efficiency of twin 40s on 22'
- Thread starter qboat
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El and Bill
New member
In our many years and miles of living aboard and cruising on a 22' C-Dory, our twin 40hp Hondas were sufficient and efficient for us. We seldom needed to move fast, and enjoyed the efficiency of twin 40's. Often we were cruising with one up and the other purring us along just fine. It was the cruise, not the destination, that was our joy on the boat thru those years of living aboard.
El and Bill
New member
check out our website cruisingamerica/halcyon days and click on the theme, fast or slow. We discuss this topic there.
I run a heavily loaded 22 and have carbed twin 40 yamahas. I would say the power is the least amount I'd like to have but gets the job done. 18 to 20 knots on flat seas should be easy if that's your concern. I have recently repropped from 13" to 11" and it has made a huge difference so be aware of the way you run your boat and the prop as well. If I upgraded I would do twin 60's or a single 115 with a 9.9 kicker.
I do a lot of run in choppy waters so most of the time i would never notice the difference in hp because our boats are "go slow" boats in those conditions and I generally limit speed to 14 knots.
If I was looking at a 22 C dory I really liked the twin 40's I wouldn't make me hesitate one bit. I can't emphasize enough how important Permatrims and the right prop are.
I do a lot of run in choppy waters so most of the time i would never notice the difference in hp because our boats are "go slow" boats in those conditions and I generally limit speed to 14 knots.
If I was looking at a 22 C dory I really liked the twin 40's I wouldn't make me hesitate one bit. I can't emphasize enough how important Permatrims and the right prop are.
I run a heavy CD22 (lots of living gear) with carbed twin 40 Hondas with 11x11 4 bladed aluminum Solas props. WOT alone is at 58-5900 and with 3 other passengers at approximately 5500. I do 18 smph alone at 4500 or 4800 (can not quite remember) but prefer 14 smph at about 4000. I'd be pushing the engines trying to do 20 smph with 3 passengers - my sop is to run 1000 less than WOT for the load. Like CDory23 said, twin 40's are the least power I'd like but I rarely do 20 smph and am happy with the set up I have.
Given the same load to push thru the water, the engine(s) with less cu in
displacement will work harder than an engine(s) with more cu in displacement.
This assumes both will be propped correctly, same Mfg, etc.
On a CD 22, the differences would be inconsequential with 'normal' use save
using less fuel with a single vs twin (more u/w drag and weight).
Aye.
displacement will work harder than an engine(s) with more cu in displacement.
This assumes both will be propped correctly, same Mfg, etc.
On a CD 22, the differences would be inconsequential with 'normal' use save
using less fuel with a single vs twin (more u/w drag and weight).
Aye.
smittypaddler
New member
I have twin 40s on my 2004 CD-22 Cruiser. I bought twins for safety, figuring I could lose one engine and still get home. The engines have 1400 hours, and I've lost an engine once, and I was able to get home on the other. I cruise at wide open throttle most of the time, if waves allow, and unless I'm very heavily loaded, top out at 24 knots. However, I also take the family waterskiing, and often wish I had twin 50s. When these motors finally go (if ever) I'll upgrade to twin 50s.
I run with twin Yami 40s, the older carbed models. I get 18 knots with the boat heavey laden, which seems to be all the time. Probably 22/23 knots if light. Don't ask me about fuel consumption. I have never bothered to work it out.
If I was re-powering, I would go with the new twin Yami 50s.
Martin.
If I was re-powering, I would go with the new twin Yami 50s.
Martin.
My previous 22 had twin, carbed Honda 40's. Without permatrims, wide open with a light load on flat water was about 30MPH or 26kts. For the 22, that's just about the speed where the boat feels a little squirrely - e.g. still controllable but on the edge of not having enough wetted surface to maintain control. Once I put on the permatrims, the top end speed dropped to about 28MPH or 24kts. I put over 1000 hours on the twin 40's with nary a problem. IMHO, they are plenty adequate but if I got a new 22, I'd probably put twin 50's on it or a single 90-115. For a used purchase, I wouldn't bat an eye at buying one with twin 40's.
I just sold my 26 Venture w/twin Honda 90s. I felt it did about everything I
asked of it including planing with 8 adults on board; an unusual event.
Still, now Honda has new 100 hp available, I do believe a pair of these would be
my choice if I opted to repeat. And it's not about speed in the CDory.
Aye.
asked of it including planing with 8 adults on board; an unusual event.
Still, now Honda has new 100 hp available, I do believe a pair of these would be
my choice if I opted to repeat. And it's not about speed in the CDory.
Aye.
Twin 40's. Totally efficient, adequatly sufficient. After 10 plus years with a 22 Cruiser and twin 40 Yamies, running a farly heavy cruising load I would agree with that. I have never needed more power, and only rarely pushed the throttles to the pegs, very rarely. (A few times for WOT test runs, and a couple of times in big 8 to 10 foot following seas.) Rarely over 2/3 or 3/4 throttle. Most of my cruise time is around 6 knots, and planning is around 15, easy at half throttle.
The boat was set up by a guy who was getting his 34th boat for his last and retirement boat. Guess he knew what he was doing. I would like twin 50s, and EFI, but I only have 1300 hours on and a long time to repower, so for the next while, my twin 40s are where it's at.
Harvey
SleepyC
The boat was set up by a guy who was getting his 34th boat for his last and retirement boat. Guess he knew what he was doing. I would like twin 50s, and EFI, but I only have 1300 hours on and a long time to repower, so for the next while, my twin 40s are where it's at.
Harvey
SleepyC
Frankly, I would prefer a 90hp single + 9.9 kicker...
To me twins = 2x the maintenance costs, but will provide marginally better maneuverability with adequate separation distance, but will always cost more to maintain. And if one fails, the other could get you home at non-planing speeds.
Arguments for either choice.
To me twins = 2x the maintenance costs, but will provide marginally better maneuverability with adequate separation distance, but will always cost more to maintain. And if one fails, the other could get you home at non-planing speeds.
Arguments for either choice.
Karl,
The arguments for twins vs single is almost like religion. Discussed a lot on the forum--those who have twins love them, and they have their posts. Those of us who prefer a single plus a kicker, have out points. (But single with a kicker is still maintaining two engines.)
The arguments for twins vs single is almost like religion. Discussed a lot on the forum--those who have twins love them, and they have their posts. Those of us who prefer a single plus a kicker, have out points. (But single with a kicker is still maintaining two engines.)
Karl":29ib0t0j said:
True with one exception, "will provide marginally better maneuverability with adequate separation distance" I would beg to differ. Twins set up on a C-Dory provide considerably improved maneuverability when moving at slow (read marine and docking) speeds. It may not be religion, but it is definitely a subset of the sect species.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Karl":p99qppcj said:
True with one exception, "will provide marginally better maneuverability with adequate separation distance" I would beg to differ. Twins set up on a C-Dory provide considerably improved maneuverability when moving at slow (read marine and docking) speeds. It may not be religion, but it is definitely a subset of the sect species.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Even when the OP specifically requested otherwise the Single Vs. Twins debate will never die, I love it! Everything about about twins is compelling enough (and most importantly, they just LOOK so darned cool!), but will say this about the single: the big ol' 15.5" diameter prop hasn't disappointed at low speed maneuverability...Granted, only 116 hours so far, but the 22 has been the easiest docking boat that I've ever owned (and all previous boats were smaller!), even in winds.
This discussion and the other current thread with excellent suggestions for docking in various conditions, give rise to an idea for future CBGT...Let's have an obstacle course and docking practice event... It's a common event at Scale RC tugboat regattas, and super fun! We can add it along with the Dinghy Race to Fairhaven to liven things up at Bellingham! Who's with me on these? Potluck Schmotluck! :lol:
-Mike
This discussion and the other current thread with excellent suggestions for docking in various conditions, give rise to an idea for future CBGT...Let's have an obstacle course and docking practice event... It's a common event at Scale RC tugboat regattas, and super fun! We can add it along with the Dinghy Race to Fairhaven to liven things up at Bellingham! Who's with me on these? Potluck Schmotluck! :lol:
-Mike
IIRC our 22s were designed with a lightweight 75 hp two stroke engine in mind. As a result they are sensitive to stern weight. Fins and tabs are a band-aid, not a cure.
When my '05 22C was outfitted a pair of Honda 40s weighed less than a Honda 75-90 + a kicker. The twins keep the weight centered better too. For those who don't desire the redundancy of two engines this is not an issue.
When my '05 22C was outfitted a pair of Honda 40s weighed less than a Honda 75-90 + a kicker. The twins keep the weight centered better too. For those who don't desire the redundancy of two engines this is not an issue.
Mike, I like the way you think. Hummmmm . . . ....... Obsticle course..ahh American Ninja C-BRAT, now there is a title to train for :lol:
Or how about a little "On The Water Ballet"? I have seen that with a pair of big seagoing Canadian Navy Tugs. They did some really fancy stuff. I have played with some of the moves, but never paired up with another boat. We have all probably seen some of the Opening Day boat parades. Or a game of Horse on the Water. We used to do that in diving class.
Something just for funm to think about.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Or how about a little "On The Water Ballet"? I have seen that with a pair of big seagoing Canadian Navy Tugs. They did some really fancy stuff. I have played with some of the moves, but never paired up with another boat. We have all probably seen some of the Opening Day boat parades. Or a game of Horse on the Water. We used to do that in diving class.
Something just for funm to think about.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
