Steering sticks/stiff at speed

C

cgypsy

New member
I have just purchased a 22' Cruiser with twin Honda 50a and will be enjoying doing some cruising this summer.

However, my first challenge is to resolve a steering issue.

In general the steering is a little bit stiff, but when you turn the wheel all the way to the left, if feels like the wheel gets stuck there and it takes a lot of effort to bring it back to the centre. It is fine when I turn to the left.

The previous owner had a mechanic look at it and they cleaned the cable and replaced some steering bearings in one of the motors.

When the motors are turned off or the boat is at idle, the steering feels perfectly fine (which probably why the mechanic thought it was fixed) however when going at planing speed, the steering is very stiff to the left. It is a little stiff when I turn to the left, but it is ever more stiff when I try to turn back to centre.

Any suggestions?
 
I suspect that both of the motors are right hand rotation. This gives a lot of torque. I would first be sure that the trim tabs on the antiventillation plate are set up properly. Generally the twin engine boats with same rotation have stiffness against the torque of the props.

Solutions: trim tabs properly set. Non feedback steering, if you don't already have it. I did replace cable steering in one boat because both the geared tooth, and rack had detiorrated over 12 years. Replace with hydraulic steering.

Your comment that this was worse at high speeds brings the above to mind. There can be other issues, but since it is OK at low speeds, and at rest, that is the first thing which pops up.
 
Hello IE,

Please tell us what type/make of steering you have...'cable' or hydraulic? It sounds like a cable system but...I'll wait for more info.

You have detailed difficulty with turning LEFT and then more difficulty with returning to CENTRE...is RIGHT turning smooth/easy?

With difficulty ONLY WHEN UNDERWAY...can you tell if anything is getting torqued/twisted/bent whilst motoring vs at rest when steering feels normal?

dave
 
Thank you for the suggestions.

It is cable steering and both motors turn the same way.

We actually discussed the trim (torque) tabs on the motor and I think that is something I can check into.

What if I took them off to test the system. Would that make it worse or should I just adjust them one way or the other?

Is a switch to hydraulic steering an expensive fix? But, if it fixed it, it might be worth it anyway.

Turning right is smooth and easy. I have no problem with that.

I am taking it out tomorrow (for the first time) and I will pay more attention and maybe try adjusting the trim tabs.

The guy I bought it from said it was always stiff and I know he has tried to get it fixed, but the because the mechanic didn't take it for a test drive and works fine at rest, he wasn't able to resolve it so he just decided to live with it.

Thanks again for the suggestions.
 
This is one of the only reasons I opt for a single engine and kicker vs. twins. Can't get little counter-rotating outboards.

Do not take off the engine trim tabs, adjust them to compensate for the difficulty steering.

Cables generally have an easier time pulling than they do pushing. This is likely exacerbated by the system's age.

However, cables just don't work all that well on C-Dory 22 boats. The lazarette is positioned such that the cable has to make a very sharp bend and I believe this to be a general issue that only impacts cable systems. I have numerous other boats that use cables with gentle bends quite happily. I've never seen a teleflex cable work well with a sharp 90* bend in it.

I would not spend any time or effort on this system. I don't think you are going to get results that satisfy you, and you have probably already spent as much at your mechanic's shop working on this system as you would have installing hydraulic steering.

Unless part of the fun of owning a boat is tinkering with its parts (I'd rather cruise and fish!), my strong advice to you is to pull that cable out and install a baystar hydraulic system. I just bought a new baystar system for less than a cable system would have cost, and did the install myself in about two hours. It was easy. My steering is 500% better now.
 
The turning right, is the direction of the torque of the props, pushing you--you are fighting it turning left.

I agree, don't take the tabs off, set them to turn more to the left--they are like little rudders.

I agree in the long run you will be happier with a hydraulic system. The BayStar will work OK up to 150 hp, but the Sea Star is a better system, with more robust parts. Worth the difference? I have BayStar, and it is working OK.
 
The current cable steering is teleflex. We played with the tabs and it made a very marginal difference, but not enough.

It sounds like a hydraulic system is the answer. I will look into what is involved in getting one.

I'm still open to other suggestions, but I think the answer is pretty clear.

I always thought props had to spin in opposite directions with twin outboards and when I bought the boat they told me that was not the way it worked with C-Dory's and I couldn't figure out now, but as someone just said they don't make them for smaller outboards, so that might explain it.

Thanks again. I will be researching hydraulic systems tomorrow.
 
The answer is that they don't make outboards under 50 hp that are counter rotating. However with hydraulic steering it is still not "perfect" There is hydraulic creep. That is if there is a lot of torque, you will have to slowly give a correctional rudder to that side. Another example, is the with cable steering, you can put a wrap on the wheel, and have that as the straight ahead or dead center. Not so with hydraulic, it will rarely be the same place--you need some pressure against the torque. The hydraulic steering just makes it easier.
 
OK, That explains why they don't go in opposite directions.

It sounds like Hydraulic steering may help, but I'm not sure if it is the answer.

Does anyone have an estimate of the cost? I'm guessing between $1 000 and $1 500.

Please tell me my estimate is too high :)
 
Kushtaka":3j6m6p12 said:
I found a baystar system for about $480 delivered to Alaska.

I installed it myself in about 2 hours.

This was about three months ago.
Click to expand...

That is encouraging. I just talked to a dealer here who quoted me $2000. $1200 for the unit, $200 for hoses, $500 for labour.

I'm going out on the water for a week, so I will know by the time I get back how important hydraulic steering is.

Thank you.
 
You should be able to find the Baystar system (everything, except the tie bar) for about $500 to $600. (I think the $480 was a good deal in AK!). The hooker is the cost of the tie bar, (assuming that you are going with one front mount cylinder)--and they get over $300 (up to $480) for the bar and fittings! I suspect it can be done for less. But I sure think you can get the whole kit for less than $1000. I agree that this is a DIY project--so loose the $500 labor (high). I would find out exactly what the shop wanted to sell you--Sea Star with dual cylinder, and extra hoses?

Do you need dual cylinders for two 50 hp? I don't think so. If you are running dual 90's then Sea Star, with a specific ratio, and dual cylinders.

Is it worth doing-yes, that vs doing a non feed back cable system. The NFB will cost almost as much as the Bay Star.
 
I totally agree on the hydraulic system over the old cable one.

After 25 yrs on my 1983 CD I switched to hydraulic. It made a tremendous improvement in the handling. Did it myself for about $600.

When removing the cable just cut it up with a sawzall to help getting it out easier.
 
If you do put hydraulic on your boat, and you're near a boat dealer, you might consider taking it in to have them bleed the system if they have a pump. It takes about 20-40 minutes, isn't messy, and is worth it in my opinion. Keep the hydraulic fluid that comes with the kit for field repairs.

On the topic of repairs, the folks at Sportcraft say one of the biggest causes of leaking seals is dog hair. Having a wire-haired pointer, plus being in a couple of Lake Powell dust/sand storms must have got mine. The new gland nuts are easy to install, and once again, I took it in to have it bled!
 
thataway":1hczqzw1 said:
I suspect that both of the motors are right hand rotation. This gives a lot of torque. I would first be sure that the trim tabs on the antiventillation plate are set up properly. Generally the twin engine boats with same rotation have stiffness against the torque of the props.

Solutions: trim tabs properly set. Non feedback steering, if you don't already have it. I did replace cable steering in one boat because both the geared tooth, and rack had detiorrated over 12 years. Replace with hydraulic steering.

Your comment that this was worse at high speeds brings the above to mind. There can be other issues, but since it is OK at low speeds, and at rest, that is the first thing which pops up.
Click to expand...
Just to add on to thataway suspicions and their results with 2 right-hand props: This is a manufacturer's quote below
"Standard & Counter Rotation Props
Props spin either clockwise (standard or right-hand rotation) or counter-clockwise (counter or left-hand rotation).
Most single engines use a standard rotation. Most twin engines use one of each. To determine what rotation you have, look at your prop as if on a boat. Position a blade pointing straight up. If the right-hand side of the blade is closer to the hull than to you, it's a standard rotation.
Rotation on Twin Engines
A boat with twin engines and two boat props spinning in the same directionats will have a lot of steering torque. Two right-hand (or standard rotation) propellers pull the stern hard to the right and the bow to the left.
Using both standard and counter rotation with twin engines will eliminate the steering torque. This gives you better straight-Line tracking and helm control at high speeds. "
 
I just had my SeaStar cylinder, and terminal fittings replaced by my mechanics shop in Port Townsend. the cylinder and fittings were $580 and 3 hours for the job, but they had to lift one Outboard off the transom to do the job, so I had them disconnect and lift the other one too, to raise both engines up one inch on the transom to get them up where they should have been set originally.

I had 1000 hours on the system and it had began to leak. The shaft was pitted so just doing a reseal kit was not a good option.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_070.thumb.jpg
 
Back
Top